EtherREGEN: All posts about firmware moved here

[Ehsu]

I was wrong about the latest firmware update.... It did not lose any musicality at all. Its better everywhere slightly. It was my ears!! Sorry, Alex and John. I just realised that I had some issue with my ear or ears in last few days 😞 It was partially blocked like living in a vacuum from time to time in last few days. It comes and go, never experienced this in my life. I hope that its not a sign of losing my hearing......

Anyway, I had a good listen tonight when my ears are clear and music I heard was full of life!

 

On a side note, I came across a product called Net Isolator from Jcat while I was surfing for audiophile quality ethernet cables without metal plugs. The description of it sounded so similar to ER but strangely its not powered.

• Install between the Ethernet cable which connects to home network (the router or the switch) and the network audio component (music server, network renderer)
• For best performance install in close distance to the network audio  component (music server, network  renderer)
• The Ethernet cable entering the NET Isolator from home network (the router or the switch) does not have to be very high quality, but it is recommended that the short Ethernet cable from the NET Isolator to the network audio component (music server, network renderer) is audio-grade – it is of most importance
• The NET Isolator eliminates harshness caused by the network noise and makes the listening stressfree. Noisefloor is lower, music flows more effortless and finer details can be heard easily

I wonder what's the difference if anyone knows about it? 

[Ehsu]

5 hours ago, Iving said:

 

i love the transparency and detail

i don't like the loss of body - the music is technically better but has lost its soul

I'll give it a while - see if there is a cooking effect

otherwise i'd like to understand how *this* firmware change could have such dramatic effects

and what options may lie ahead apart from return

Hi @Iving I was one of the first few testing the update and I had similar observation just after the update. But at the same time, I had some issue with my ears that was a bit blocked from time to time so I could not be sure. Now, my ears are much better so I gave it a good listen. What I found is that ER is more balanced top to bottom so the mid range sounds almost recessed compared to the forward mid before the update. I think bass is actually firmer now. initially I thought bass was a bit bloated and not as controlled. Weird to have such big swings after the update!! So I blame my ears 🙂 I will give it more time to make my final judgement. 

[Ehsu]

1 hour ago, soares said:

Instruction were very clear and it just took me a couple of minutes to install the new firmware. Thank you Alex! 
Now the sound. The difference in my system is not subtle. The soundstage is bigger and the clarity increased substantially. But at the same time it seems that the sound is lighter. English is not my mother tongue and as such I have difficulties to explain my preliminar feelings. I regret not have made a copy of the original firmware.

Alex, from what I read, most of us didn’t have any problems with the original firmware. The firmware was not faulty at all.  I am using a Zen MKIII as server and a uR as end point. Between the two an oM and eR. I could also use my STi5   just for HQP purposes. All working fine. I understand that from your point of view giving the users the choice to opt for one or the other firmware would potentially lead to hardware repairs due to the amount of experiences that some of us would engage. However, it is not necessarily the case as the differences are notable. 
So, while I really  appreciated how quickly you and John has provided a solution to the problem some of us were facing, I would equally appreciate if you could provide us with the old firmware for the ones that due to a system particularly transparent might prefer a darker sound! 

Cheers Jorge

P.s. Please don’t tell me as you did earlier that one  might return eR if It is not satisfied...😀

What I found is that the whole frequency range from top to bottom is flatter than before so it gives you a different presentation than pre-update. I did notice both top and bottom are more pronounced now so mid range appear less forward. My system is not bright so I have no issues with the top end but I can see why some people in a brighter system may find it a bit much. Still fantastic sounding piece of kit but somehow I am still not sure if I prefer the older firmware or new update after 4 days.

[Ehsu]

13 minutes ago, andresz said:

Sure - happy to help. I imagine the guys were working for months getting the sound just right and this tweak is more of a reaction to a tech problem that may have sounded ok in transit.  Guys need to be careful here that they don't make wholesale changes without getting a sense of what is going on across systems. I was shocked how badly V2 works on HT re vision and dolby. 

I asked Alex last weekend for original version but he reckoned that I need more time. I had some ear pressure issue in those few days too so I was not sure. unfortunately the other beta testers for the update did not share the same view as mine so Uptone guys went ahead with the mass roll out. But my ears are all good now and I can say for sure that updated version is better in hifi terms perhaps but less " music ". I did commented on it was better ( more balanced top to bottom etc.. ) a few days ago. But somehow I still do not gel with the later version. I cant put my fingers on any particular area that caused this feeling though 😞 

I also noticed that video streaming has less "punch" than the original too. 

[Ehsu]

11 minutes ago, _JL_ said:

too smooth

Exactly the same words popped into my head in last hour of listening while I was looking for answers why the new version doesnt resonate with me. It seem to lose a bit of transient speed which makes music a bit less " live ". 

 

[Ehsu]

7 hours ago, Dutch said:

I already asked the same thing a few days back. Alex’ reaction is here: 

Hopefully he’ll reconsider now that more people are reporting the same.

 

Hopefully they will reconsider it. The way I see it, almost everyone praised about the original SQ but some including myself briefly experienced connection issues. I think only ONE person concluded there is no improvement in his system. Version 2 has quite a few of us finding the SQ less engaging. So clearly ER's sound signature is now more polarising/controversial. 

This hifi business is all about preferences. We buy certain brand of hifi because we like its character. Some prefer McIntosh, some prefer Naim, Linn etc. So why not letting some of us keep the sound signature we LOVED? We paid for the original ER and was just hoping connection issue is fixed. Why fixing things that no one complained? This to me makes no sense.

A superior car does not mean it is a fun to drive car, right? Tesla is fast 0-100 but V8 is more emotionally addictive. Porsche 911 is technically flawed with the engine weight hangs out in the back but people love it for decades because of its character. 

Can I please have my Porsche 911 back? 🙂

 

[Ehsu]

36 minutes ago, incus said:

I see your point but must wholeheartedly disagree about the Tesla. Much more emotionally addictive to me. Which, I guess, undermines your point about the ER as well.  Because there are many, including myself, who feel the V2 firmware is a step up from the V1. And if you recall the fixes were not implemented for sound quality reasons but rather to shore up the code and fix a technical issue. By all means you should be able to revert if you want - but understand why the changes were made and that there are many of us who love their new Tesla more...

Of course I remember the reason for the update. It was SUPPOSED to fix connection issue only! You do know they changed other codes for SQ as Alex said himself? So I do not know what is your point here? If you love you ER v2 or Tesla, thats fine. I am not asking you to change! If we have a choice, it wont affect people who love their version2. My point is this, I bought a Porsche then it turns into a Tesla or Bentley or whatever after a few weeks?  

[Ehsu]

53 minutes ago, thyname said:

Oh gosh... this is so confusing. 
 

Since everything is fine with my EtherRegen, and no connectivity issues whatsoever,  I will stay put with my original, no firmware update, unit.

If we get the choice to go back to v1, then you can update to v2 and decide yourself. 

[Ehsu]

7 minutes ago, Superdad said:

Chill guys! 

Since John and I are the only people on the planet currently able to compare the current firmware (A/B/A/B) to the original (and despite what someone implied I have not sent a "rollback" file to ANYONE), I'd say it was amusing how a FEW of you are getting hung up on what you THINK you remember the original sounding like.  Only I am not amused, as all you are doing sowing fear, uncertainty, and doubt.

The new firmware--aside from fixing the EEE bug--improves transmit and receive performance of the PHY circuits of the 'A'-side RJ45 ports. That is all. We reserve the right to produce a technically superior product.  Whoever said they thought we spent months "voicing" the EtherREGEN to its original release "sound" and then rushed in a change without listening is 100% wrong on both counts.

I think one vocal person is using only the optical port on the 'A' side and still claiming the new firmware "ruins" the sound him. But the code change we made does not touch the SFP cage's SGMII interface at all, so it is just imagination. 

 

I am going to listen again myself over the weekend and then make a decision about if we will make the technically poorer performing firmware file available. Until then, please tone it down a bit.  Thanks,

--Alex C. 

Hi Alex;

I COULD be imagining the scale of change and it is why I was not so sure earlier. Maybe we all had that "wow" moment when we first plug ER into our system but we did not get that again from the update because it is small change. For me, ER in the chain is better than without for sure. The best solution is for some of us who thought otherwise to roll back to original and listen again to be sure. Whats the harm in that? Maybe I just miss that first listening moment? 🙂 

[Ehsu]

8 minutes ago, Iving said:

 

disagree

ER1 and ER2 are two completely different animals

they have different personalities

they are effectively two different products

ER1 earned very near unanimous approval

ER2 is very hifi but some of us feel it is inferior musically

it is fascinating that a single-design product can produce two different outputs the result of fixing an EEE problem and/or ???

the ER clearly has truly massive potential

ER2 doesn't feel like a final solution

 

I think most of us for or against the update all exaggerated the scale of changes. I do not think it’s “huge” difference but I feel the update sounded slightly different. Definitely hear what they improved it but I missed the engaging sound of the original which “ maybe “ imagined because it was such a big improvement over my Netgear switch at the time. But somehow I don’t connect with my music as much as with original ER. I just wish I can roll back to original to have a listen again to be certain, that’s all. 

[Ehsu]

34 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

I listened to it for quite some time with no problems, but did notice a small improvement in SQ, I still have no idea why.

Hi John, thanks so much for clarifying the details and backgrounds of this update. I think SQ improvements are very subjective. May I ask what kind of sound you prefer? The reason for asking is that you may think smoothness is an improvement but I may not because I like get up and go kind of sound for example. Some people may prefer a brighter sound but I prefer a darker sound so any change towards the top end can end up with totally different conclusion due to different preferences. 

I think some of us having different opinions of the change is not strange at all and we have no idea why we hear changes, just like you I guess. Since SQ change was totally unintended, I wonder why we get criticised for having different opinions on the outcome? 

We are just giving you guys our feedbacks and I dont think anyone has some kind of secret agenda here.

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, so-no-mah said:

For those longing for the original ER firmware. might I suggest that you consider the fact that in order to do the update you had to power it down and disturb and re-disturb all the cables in that part of the chain.

 

I don't know about you guys (gals too, I hope), but when I upset the apple cart in such a fashion it always takes some time for all and sundry to settle in.

 

Having said that, I found the latest firmware to be an improvement right out of the gate. Thirty or so hours in it's even mo bettah!

 

I suggest we all give it some time....

I already have the new firmware for a week. The first impression from the first note was very positive. I could not find any faults. Then after 2hrs of listening, I thought there was something missing. I wasnt tapping my toes and just could not connect with my music for some reason. Seriously, I still do not understand why the new sound could not give me goose bumps like the original. I am still searching for answers. Is it my imagination or honeymoon ending? Is it because it was too smooth? I just dont know without going back to original firmware. I usually dont do A/B comparison if things are very obvious. But I just cant pin point what caused this feeling. If I put my critical listening hat on, everything seems to be better. Darker background. More details etc... But I just dont connect with the music as well as the original either listen seriously or casually 😞   

[Ehsu]

28 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

So your statement is: more analytical, more detail, darker meaning more “true to the source”?

I never claim true to the source! How do you ever know if something is true unless you were actually “ the source “. I’m only talking in relative terms comparing to original version. Well, maybe you made a good point here because I don’t like analytical sound. Is that why I enjoy less than before? I am still searching for answers. I never tell people here not to go for an ER here! By all means, steal one if you can find it, v1 or v2. It is really special. I just personally enjoy v1 slightly more. That’s it. 

 

39 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

 

Some here mentioned that they think it is more HiFi...for me these are many opinions, but not a clear direction and no common opinion. 

That is true because it’s very personal and you can’t rely on measurements. Just use another car analogy. I have 2 fast cars. One is German and another is Italian. German car is precise and faster on track. However, it’s a little soulless achieving that faster track time and it doesn’t give me good feedback through steering wheel etc. I like it but not in love with it. The Italian is slower on track and a bit flawed. But I love every sec driving it. Good driver connection and full of emotions. Some prefer the fastest car but some just like to have a good time doing it. 
I’m not talking about ER. I’m talking about your point above. 

[Ehsu]

3 hours ago, kennyb123 said:

A friend has been visiting.  He just walked into the room and spoke positively about the “pulse” of my system.  I chuckled and told him that some on this forum are saying the new firmware is killing the ability to tap their toes.  He chuckled saying he could feel it in the other room.

Well, if your friend has not heard the prior version then his opinion is totally irrelevant though. I have only been talking about minor differences. V2 is still very good in its own I reckon.

Our own preferences and experiences are different. My wife and I are dancers and have been performing, competing at national level in the past. We always try to have good emotional connection to the music so we have better musicality. In short, we can be very sensitive to emotional changes than some people from years of training. The way I run listening test is how a change in gears or cables affect my connection to the music I am listening. Never much about soundstage, tone or any of these hifi terms. Maybe good timing and rhythm give us that connection? Maybe.

[Ehsu]

22 minutes ago, kennyb123 said:

 I think it extremely unfair and bordering on irresponsible to spoil the otherwise wonderful product launch based on finicky emotions - particularly when you haven’t done A/B tests and are solely basing things on memory - that can also be unreliable.

Well, that also apply to guys thinking v2 is definitely better though.... you also relied on memory...

and like I said many times since day 1, I asked for v1 so I can go back to compare and make a definite judgement. How can you say for sure this and that is better when you didn’t A/B it? Very irresponsible too I reckon. 
I don’t rely on 1 listening session to say if there is emotional connection or not. I listen 1-2hrs everyday at different time of the day. I totally agree with what you saying about mood etc. but it’s not how I evaluate equipments. 

[Ehsu]

On 11/24/2019 at 3:00 AM, Ehsu said:

2hrs after firmware update. No dropouts so far. But to be honest, my last dropout was 3 days ago so time will tell.

However, I am not sure whether there is any improvements in SQ. Perhaps there is bigger soundstage? Perhaps better separation and imaging? Perhaps bass become a bit bloated for my liking? I thought it is slightly more hifi than music now. I was not tapping my feet as vigorously as before. Perhaps I was just too tired? Perhaps......

 

Either way, I think the differences are too minor to be 100% certain. I wonder what others ( unlucky or lucky few experienced dropouts ) think about this update?

 

Perhaps its time for bed 😞 Way past 2am for critical listening!

@kennyb123 What are you accusing me of? You want to read my first impression above? I was the original tester of the firmware last weekend and I said many “ perhaps” including it could be myself ok? Maybe you confused me with some extreme comments? I have empathized many times that changes are minor but personally I prefer to go back to v1 to be certain about my findings.

I still think it’s very minor differences but I would love to be able to go back to double check. I have always been careful and responsible with my comments. Just remember, we are talking in relative terms and v2 is still better than any switches I used. Just thought v1 is slightly better than v2 in areas that I focus on

[Ehsu]

On 11/27/2019 at 12:13 AM, Ehsu said:

I was wrong about the latest firmware update.... It did not lose any musicality at all. Its better everywhere slightly. It was my ears!! Sorry, Alex and John. I just realised that I had some issue with my ear or ears in last few days 😞 It was partially blocked like living in a vacuum from time to time in last few days. It comes and go, never experienced this in my life. I hope that its not a sign of losing my hearing......

Anyway, I had a good listen tonight when my ears are clear and music I heard was full of life!

@kennyb123 I also said this a few days ago.As you can see, I still think v2 is good. But I still would like to go back to v1 for a listen as I still think there is more emotional connection to v1. Like I said, I could be wrong with v2 but just like to double check. Cant get rid of memories of music enjoyment I had with v1. I think v2 is more balanced so the mid range is not as pronounced maybe? I am still searching for the answers 

[Ehsu]

@incus What a great review!! I was going to write some new revelation after a good Sunday afternoon session as well. My findings are similar to yours but not much on burn-in.

 

What I did was chosen shuffle play in Roon. I realised some of my music become really unlistenable. Sometimes the singer or singers were almost behind a curtain quite a few steps back! Sounded muffled. Some tracks sounded so splashy on the top 😞 I just could not connect with those kind of sound where music made no sense. However, some recordings sound absolutely majestic!! Amazing. Singer was right in front of me in the room singing to me. This happened within 1hr of random listening! 

No wonder I had some good moments last week where I thought music connection was there but in some days it wasnt there.  

 

I suspect, as @Bernstein has suggested, ER has become even more revealing after the update caused my confusion about its music connections. I think what happened since the update was because any average sounding tracks really revealed their imperfections. I could not relate to them because they were poorly recorded. A veil was there in many tracks which I did not notice before. Some splashy top end just become so obvious. But ER has also showed me what good recording sounded like I never experienced before. Everything laid bare in front of me. I was so surprised to learn that I probably only have 3 out 10 recordings are good enough to be played through my main system. I could listen to most of my music before ER update because it had been rounded off by my components which is known to be more PRAT focus rather than being detailed or revealing.   

 

These are my latest thesis on why I thought music connection was lost ( but sometimes it was there ) purely because the true colour of each recording has been revealed by ER. We can only speculate on the causes though as we could not roll back to previous version for A/B test. 

[Ehsu]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

So you're saying that etherREGEN allows your recordings and other components to show their true character.  That is very high praise.

Hi rickca;

well, it is a praise but also a curse. I realized this revealing nature because I was searching for answers to why sometimes I don’t connect with some familiar music after update. I’m usually a music first audiophile. I buy musics that I like not because how good it sound. I buy Hi-Fi components so I can enjoy my music collections more. 
so now I can only enjoy the very well recorded 500 albums instead of 2000 albums for example. Although, I must say I will enjoy those 500 albums much more than before. Other 1500 albums? I’ll end up pushing skip next button.... so it can be a curse. 
I’m even more confident with this explanation now after comparing the sound to my much less capable system at 1/30th of the cost of my main system. It is much less revealing system but loves to boogie:-). I still enjoy my music very much there after the update. I could not hear any veil or much differences to v1 ( from memory ) because there was much less information being presented to me in the first place! 
my next project will be trying to find out why I felt the streaming video has less punch and less  “pop” effect after update. I thought it was a part even more obviously affected by the update. I will report back if I find an answer there. 
 

[Ehsu]

2 hours ago, Bernstein said:

So is the discussion of V1 vs. V2 over? This is my impression  

Reading through the latest Feedbacks the V2 (could) support the aim to be „true to the source“ which I love and appreciate a lot. Even if this is something which some aren’t used to. At the end, everybody will love it after hearing what is really IN the record. 

But I am still surprised why those records I loved sounded bad now? I thought they were quite good before. Maybe I should store the music files away from the NAS? Or maybe ER is showing me the upstream noise somewhere? Maybe the wireless router that NAS plugged in or the router noise? For example, even Tracy Chapman in WAV sounded dull now. And Norah Jones in 24/192 Flac sounded flat! Just shocked with the result still.  

[Ehsu]

57 minutes ago, Bernstein said:

What are recordings which shocked you in a positiv manner?

Weird, right? I only mentioned these 2 because these 2 albums were my go to albums for test for years. Voices were a bit lifeless and bass and drums were mellow. I remember drums behind Norah was bouncier before ( even before ER arrived ). If Only by Arthur James was a bit splashy and not making sense. I quite like this album by Arthur and had good time with it before. But I do understand its a modern pop so the recording itself can be average.

Night Like This by Hillary Duff, Momento Magico by Ulf Wakenius, Broken Glass by Rachel Platter, Crimson wedding by Ricky Ho ( a movie soundtrack ) and Tantobushi by Yoshida brothers ( Japanese strings ) were some of the good ones. Dynamic and full of life. Dont laugh at these songs, they were played randomly by Roon for a cruisy Sunday afternoon. I did not list everything Roon played because most others were average or skipped if bad. Not sure if you know these songs but I listen to all kind of different genres. 

I dont have any MP3 files so they are at least 16/44 WAV. No Tidal played yesterday.

[Ehsu]

2 hours ago, FileMakerDev said:

How odd that my reaction would be precisely the opposite. And "live" sounding is one of my main goals for my system. Before the ER my system sounded "live", then with ERv1 "live-er", and now with ERv2 "live-est".

I think this is not odd at all. As I have established last Sunday after listening to a random playlist created by Roon. ER is so revealing now that shows up the huge difference between good and average recordings which some may not have realised before. I actually went back to the same playlist again last night after @Bernstein asked me what tracks performed well and what not. I got the same result as Sunday afternoon.

 

A couple points I would like to point out to everyone on this forum as well. We all need to respect others opinions because after all, each of us use different components, speakers, network setup and personal preferences in sound. I have to stress personal preference in sound because it is why we choose different brand of component we end up buying after demo. Lets not forget we also have different level of components too that may or may not be able to show enough of a difference. I would never say someone's finding is wrong or BS because we are all different! I am a bit annoyed by some people's strong oppositions to others opinions. UpTone is based in USA! Freedom of Speech! I do not like the feeling of police state here sometimes where you are only allowed to say 1 side of opinion. Btw, just to be clear, I love ER's improvements over my old switch and UpTone's work ethics. Second to none really. Any sound characters I described are all in relative terms. Hey, we are all audiophiles. Ordinary people would say that we are talking whole lots of c#$p!  

 

Second point I like to make is that we need to understand each of us consciously or subconsciously focus on different areas of the sound depends on their background or preferences or taste. For example, I am a dancer and used to play bass guitar as a teenager so I tend to focus on the timing and rhythmic part of the music. It is why I chose certain components and speakers as they are strong in that area. I do not care as much on soundstage, smoothness, details or neutrality etc... You may have used to comparing the SET performance etc..

 

The last point is your personal taste or preferred genre of music. Each component has its own signature of sound which "may" favour certain kind of music. How do we judge others when we just dont know enough of?