The EtherREGEN thread for various network, cable, power experiences and experiments

[PYP]

22 minutes ago, soares said:

Yes, audio sensibility silver one. Expensive but extraordinary! Never tried with the eR, just the uR.

 

Will check those out.  Thanks, Jorge.  Hope all is going well.  

[PYP]

2 hours ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

A 2nd ER has made a significant difference in my system.  The first ER was a big step up, and the second put a grin on my face. Mulling over a 3rd ER.

 

Might as well go for the record!   Seems you have clock outputs remaining for the 3rd too (why do I feel like the person who is saying:  Yes, jump off that building).  

 

I was very surprised by the contribution of the second eR, but just as with your setup (before you added the router) my upstream is rather polluted.  That is my working theory at the moment.  

[PYP]

35 minutes ago, agladstone said:

Any suggestions for the B side of ER that aren’t outrageous in price (under $400 USD)? 

$350 for 1 meter:  https://www.puristaudiodesign.com/Data/products/misc/cat7.html  

 

https://www.thecableco.com/cat7-ethernet-cable.html

[PYP]

2 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

Quite astute of you to notice the free clock output :)

 

Regrettably, I won't set any record. There are users  with cascades of 4 switches in this thread:

 A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

 

Well, I will go to any lengths to spend your money for you.

 

4?  I'll have to read about that.   

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

I read a repot that better power supply and OM seem to make a more substantial difference than second ER.  For those with experience, please comment if you agree.

All systems are different.  In my system the second eR made a greater difference than adding an LPS to the first eR and adding an OM with its own LPS.  But it is a little hard to tell since the changes are additive.    I would certainly make sure the eR has a good LPS as a first step.   

[PYP]

1 hour ago, GryphonGuy said:

My 2nd eR made a huge difference too. Depth and expanse (in all directions) of the soundstage increased massively. Both eR's run on 1310nm transceivers on optical fibre.

 

could you mention the entire chain?  would it be:   Router > copper ethernet > er#1  B to A >fiber > er#2 A to B > copper ethernet > ultrarendu > USB > DAC

 

[PYP]

7 hours ago, R1200CL said:

There isn’t any listings impressions as far as I know comparing a top expensive square wave clock vs a good sine into the EtherRegen. I suppose we talking about a 2K difference. 

 If I didn't already have a clock, this is what I would want to read about.  Of course, the ability to generalize across systems would mean that it was just a starting place.

 

 @Clockmeister did mention his own impressions of Mutec vs. the highest level Cybershaft, but I believe that was in the context of connecting to DACs, etc., and not necessarily the eR.  Perhaps that comparison would have the same result with the eR, but perhaps not as distinct. ???

[PYP]

8 hours ago, One and a half said:

EtherRegen listening evaluations day 10 (252 hours burn in)

There's also a 1m STP between the B side and the Lumin input, will leave this in for a while.

Is the eR powered all the time?  Just curious since it sounds best that way in my system.  

[PYP]

51 minutes ago, One and a half said:

Depends where the existing one is, how the network is structured and where the files are stored. A little drawing or a workflow would help heaps. 😀

And I believe John has said A > B is slightly more optimal from a design perspective.   @mitch751If possible, it is best to try different configurations and just listen for a week or two.  Better is what you hear as better.   I am using A > B for both.  Would try other configurations but some of the cables are either short enough or long enough to make that a lot of work.  If you have a copper ethernet to your system, one interesting option is B > A  >>fiber >> A > B >>copper ethernet...  With your system, can't believe any configuration will sound anything other than fantastic.  

[PYP]

3 hours ago, LewinskiH01 said:

I'm surprised nobody has opinions of

CAT6>eR SMPS>fiber>eR LPS1.2>CAT6>audio PC

vs.

CAT6>oM LPS>fiber>eR LPS1.2>CAT6>audio PC

There should be no shortage of opinions here so I offer the following.  

 

I have a similar setup that combines those two:  CAT8>oM LPS>fiber>eR SMPS>cat8>eR LPS1.2>CAT7>DAC.

When I added the oM to the first eR in my system, the change was very good in that it helped solve a slight HF problem (didn't sound as natural as I like).  Then I added a second eR and that was a large change, much larger than adding the oM, but in the context of having already added the oM.  

 

With this experience, I would give priority to a second eR over an oM if I had to choose one, BUT I can't definitively say that without running an experiment that I'm unwilling to do and stating that every system is different, playing in different rooms and to different ears.  And, of course, the budget is different for the two options.  

[PYP]

19 minutes ago, Stevem324 said:

Can you give a recommendation for a transreceiver?  I don't know a thing about transreceivers so I'm looking for recommnedations.  I don't know why a single mode is better than a multi mode.  Any recommendations for an optical cable?

I use these multimode:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00U77VPX2/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

with this cable:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B00T5796DQ/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1

 

I don't have the oM deluxe, just the oM, but this combo should work fine with both oM and eR.

[PYP]

16 minutes ago, Stevem324 said:

Thank you!

there are helpful videos if you have never used SFP (I hadn't and watched a few):

 

 

 

[PYP]

28 minutes ago, Stevem324 said:

@PYPI just ordered the oM deluxe, and the transreceivers and cables that you recommended.  I also ordered the LPS-1.2 to power the oM.  I'm hoping that this optical input to my ER will make a noticeable improvement in my streaming SQ.  Thanks for your help!

Congratulations!  It does take some time to thoroughly break in and settle in.  Hope it works out for you.  Let us know how it goes.   

[PYP]

53 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

For people who have two etherregens and OM, which makes a bigger difference, second etherregen or OM or about the same?

 

On 4/13/2021 at 7:34 AM, PYP said:

There should be no shortage of opinions here so I offer the following.  

 

I have a similar setup that combines those two:  CAT8>oM LPS>fiber>eR SMPS>cat8>eR LPS1.2>CAT7>DAC.

When I added the oM to the first eR in my system, the change was very good in that it helped solve a slight HF problem (didn't sound as natural as I like).  Then I added a second eR and that was a large change, much larger than adding the oM, but in the context of having already added the oM.  

 

With this experience, I would give priority to a second eR over an oM if I had to choose one, BUT I can't definitively say that without running an experiment that I'm unwilling to do and stating that every system is different, playing in different rooms and to different ears.  And, of course, the budget is different for the two options.  

 

[PYP]

47 minutes ago, LowMidHigh said:

 

I'd like to offer a retraction. According to John low inductance takes priority in DC cables, and a high gauge starquad is best approach to achieve that. Incidently., the architecture is more important than the conductor's gauge. 

 

"So what DOES really matter? The wire gauge determines the resistance and the geometry of the wires (how they are arranged in the cable) makes a HUGE difference in the inductance. So things to optimize for, thick wires and use the proper geometry. The geometry is actually far more important than the wire gauge, although you don't want to go with really thin wires either."

 

 

One could consider this to be general guidance, but wouldn't you want to make the comparison in your own system?    Since this is such a subjective hobby, I haven't seen agreement on "best" across a broad group.  Systems, rooms, listening distance and one's own hearing play into preferences.    

[PYP]

I'm currently trying this cable from Ghent to connect the LPS 1.2 and eR:  DC-GAC4 Gotham GAC-4/1 11301 UltraPro Star Quad DC(JSSG360) Cable.

 

Obviously well made and the correct length (in part because I measured the distance needed).    So, that is two out of two.

 

Unfortunately, because I hooked it up before the second eR was completely settled in (sounded great, so thought burn in was finished), I can't isolate its contribution to the overall sound that continues to develop.  When first connected, I did hear more bass and clearer bass and then the sound changed.  As the cable settles in, there have been occasions when the music is bit reserved, but that quality can be the eR breaking in too (as observed with the first eR).  

 

I think it is fair to say, however, that it is making a contribution to the density/solidity of the music.  Last night, an electric bass was not so much prominent as it was very, very solid (only way I can put it).  Frankly, it was awesome.  

 

Perhaps other folks who didn't add two variables at once can let us know if some of these observations line up with their experience.  

 

[PYP]

11 minutes ago, skatbelt said:

If I remember correctly, 'the Uptones' also indicated that there would be little to gain with an external clock for the ER. Or did @Superdad and @JohnSwenson come back from that?

Many folks, myself included, have found an external clock makes a significant contribution.  Please see the clock thread for more than anyone cares to read.  

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

 

We could build a big EtherREGEN with state-of-the-art AC>DC power supply and top-end OCXO built in (plus other enhancements), but the price would then be several thousand. Not going there anytime soon... 

Many are wondering about your definition of soon.    But this is just recognition of eR's contribution.    

[PYP]

57 minutes ago, Mat said:

Can i switch ER int/Ext Clock While still on ,for comparison with external clock ?

No.  From the user guide:

 

The sequence to utilize an external reference clock with the EtherREGEN is:

1) Remove DC power from the EtherREGEN.
2) Set the CLOCK INT/EXT switch to the EXT position.
3) Connect a BNC clock cable from a 10MHz reference clock.

4) Power on the reference clock.
5) Apply DC power to the EtherREGEN.

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Superdad said:

I do wish John had not said that as it spoils our 2022 product introduction. 

Well, now that he has, just wanted to check that the wearables will interface with a fitbit (or exclusive UpTone "magic ring.")

[PYP]

1 hour ago, Rsbrsvp said:

Regarding the one box issue, go to aliexpress and buy a nice metal case for $25.00 and put all your ER's, PS.s and OM inside one covered chasis.

I suppose it depends on the temperature in your home, but I've found that adequate ventilation is needed for the eRs, Om and LPS 1.2.  In my setup, that means sufficient space among the components and a small fan.  Heat sinks  work well for others.  

[PYP]

3 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

About 70% of the power is fixed, it is always there no matter what you are doing. The rest is determined by how much data is flowing through it. The lowest power will be one "input" (on an A side RJ45 jack) and an output on the B side RJ45 jack. Just doing 44.1 PCM will be the lowest. 384 or DSD512 will take a little more power. Using the SFP port takes a little more power.

Interesting.  I have two eRs (both with one input).  The first is A > B, fiber in and copper out.  The second is A > B, copper in and out (to the DAC).  The second one uses an external clock.  The second one runs much hotter than the first, but I'm assuming that results from differences in air flow within my cabinet.   

[PYP]

16 minutes ago, Rsbrsvp said:

 

 

 

My entire system is in a closed cabinet.  Of course, I make sure there is airspace around all my components within the cabinet, but still- in a cabinet which is often closed and in a hot climate.

 

So, I am always a bit concerned about heat when leaving everything on 24/7.  I have received confirmation from every component manufacturer that it is O.K...  so- I hope it is.

 

I generally shut off my entire system (except the Mutec Ref10 which runs pretty cool) once a week for around two hours just because of my heat paranoia...  Perhaps this is unnecessary.

 

During the summer, a 5" X 5" quiet fan is on all the time (plugged in AC outlet).  The difference in the external temperature of the eRs and LPS 1.2 is dramatic.  From very, very hot to warm.   An inexpensive ($19) experiment.  

In the US:  https://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MZ6T8VF/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_search_asin_title?ie=UTF8&psc=1     

[PYP]

7 hours ago, JohnSwenson said:

I have previously posted here that the ER was designed to run at an optimal temperature of 50C, which is quite warm. So by being obsessive about keeping it cool you can actually hurt performance. I don't quite understand the mind-set of spending thousands on power supplies and external clocks and then run it too cool. Running an ER at around 50C (do not obsess about tenths of a degree here, a 5 degree spread on either side is fine) is an optimal point where conflicting effects are at a minimum. An infrared thermometer on the black case works great for measuring the temperature. In the design of the ER we went to huge lengths to make sure that all parts are at almost the  same temperature after thermal equilibrium has been achieved, thus you don't need to worry about some parts being hotter than others.

Thank you, John.  In my own situation, as the weather warmed up considerably, I had intermittent dropouts.   As it became a daily ritual of trying to find the problem, which included opening the cabinet door and powering off the eRs and LPS 1.2, it suddenly occurred to me that the second eR (which was the first purchased and the one connected to the clock) was hotter than usual and was uncomfortable to touch.    Adding a fan was an experiment and one that seems to have solved the problem (no dropouts since - here I'm knocking on the wood desk).   

 

The same company that makes the fan also has a "thermal trigger" so I tried that to keep the components at a toasty but functional temperature, but the lowest setting didn't quite work, therefore I opted to keep the fan on.  It may indeed work at the lowest setting once the outside temperature is below 80 degrees.  

 

BTW, the sound quality hasn't suffered, for which I am thankful.   It may be that once I can use the fan intermittently and the temperature of the components increase, I will get even better performance, but I'm already transported by my system so I don't know if this would produce a more out-of-the-body experience or not.   But I'm willing to find out.  

[PYP]

8 minutes ago, JohnSwenson said:

Have you measured the temperature of the "hot" one? I've had ERs running very hot without any operational issues, I would be interested in finding out the temperature where you have problems.

 

Thanks,

 

John S.

Thank you, John.  I appreciate the response.  I don't have an infrared thermometer.  Is there one you recommend for this purpose?  That said, even for the great good of audiophiles everywhere, I don't want to try a reenactment at this point (still burning in the second eR).   

 

Subjectively, the problem started when the eR was too hot to handle.  I've had it for more than a year and it never was that hot and never had issues, but adding an additional eR and LPS 1.2 warmed the cabinet considerably, I suppose.   Hadn't mentioned this in my earlier posts since I assumed this was a one-off and didn't want others to get nervous about their setups, even if they too live in a desert environment.