HQPlayer4 EC modulator tips and techniques

[StreamFidelity]

20 hours ago, JTS said:

 

No idea. It's an active production machine I spent some time on balancing, so I'm not going to test this. It was overclocked with production in mind - as a side benefit it runs HQPlayer EC modulators with any of the filters.

 

There are likely other users running stock 9900K processors that could test this. I think there is someone on the main HQPlayer thread running one.

 

@k6davis wrote that Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz can handle all EC modulators with DSD 256 without any overclocking.

So I tried the same thing with my Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.60GHz. Unfortunately without success. In my system, 4GHz overclocking is required for fluent listening. I mean, Miska also said that 4GHz is the minimum.

 

 

My system:

Streacom FC9 Alpha (Black) - Desktop - micro ATX

Intel Core i9-9900K (95W TDP), 3,6GHz - 5,0GHz OctaCore - HD Graphics 630

ASUS ROG Maximus XI Gene

Corsair Dominator Platinum - DDR4 - 16 GB

2 Samsung SSD 970 PRO 512GB, M.2

JCAT USB Card FEMTO

JCAT NET Card FEMTO

HDPLEX 200W Linear Power Supply (LPS) Black

HDPLEX 400W HiFi DC-ATX 

[asdf1000]

47 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

@k6davis wrote that Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz can handle all EC modulators with DSD 256 without any overclocking.

So I tried the same thing with my Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.60GHz. Unfortunately without success. In my system, 4GHz overclocking is required for fluent listening. I mean, Miska also said that 4GHz is the minimum.

 

Thanks for sharing.

 

Jussi's i7-8086K has base speed 4.0GHz. TDP also 95W.

[JTS]

1 hour ago, StreamFidelity said:

My system:

 

@StreamFidelity, what cooler are you using? I'm using the Noctua NH-D15S 140mm cooler with two Noctua 15" fans. It is very quiet.

 

I'm running the 9900k cores at 4.7 Ghz and the cache at 4.3 with turbo on and an offset voltage of 1.35. Everything else is set to auto.

 

This is what I am getting running redbook into HqP upsampling to DSD 256 with ADSM7EC and poly-sinc-xtr-lp.

 

 

 

[rando]

What you need to keep in mind is what that 8086 is under the wrapping.  A mainstream processor many others are using that Intel waved a magic wand over to bestow a slightly higher base rate into its microcode.  They aren't necessarily even "binned" chips. 

 

Any advantage over OC'ing an 8700 to the same parameters is going to be situational and subtle.  Just like the layers of humor in the highlight of its trade show debut.  Being OC'd to 5.x GHz with all the requisite smoke and mirrors only from the magician's perspective behind it.  

 

 

 

 

[StreamFidelity]

50 minutes ago, JTS said:

what cooler are you using?

 

Your system values are great! My congratulations. 🍻

 

For general considerations, I reject active fans. I run a fanless PC and have recently invested in more passive cooling elements. 😉

 

 

[k6davis]

3 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

@k6davis wrote that Intel Core i7-9700K @ 3.60GHz can handle all EC modulators with DSD 256 without any overclocking.

So I tried the same thing with my Intel Core i9-9900K @ 3.60GHz. Unfortunately without success. In my system, 4GHz overclocking is required for fluent listening. I mean, Miska also said that 4GHz is the minimum.

 

I'm definitely not running the chip at 3.6Ghz. When I say "with no overclocking", I mean I'm running the chip stock, without making any modifications in the BIOS. It's designed to run using Intel's "Turbo Boost", which automatically and safely increases the speed of the i7-9700K to up to 4.9Ghz as needed. 

 

The i7-9700K is very comfortable running PCM 24-192 => EC DSD256 x 48 with poly-sync-ext2, without a GPU, with either Windows or Linux, all day and all night. I've had two of them recently - I returned a pre-built machine I bought for testing and I built my own. This was true for both i7-9700K chips.

 

[StreamFidelity]

58 minutes ago, k6davis said:

It's designed to run using Intel's "Turbo Boost", which automatically and safely increases the speed of the i7-9700K to up to 4.9Ghz as needed. 

 

Thank you for the clarification. I already started to doubt myself. 😂

 

So you run your PC with fan?

[k6davis]

5 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

Thank you for the clarification. I already started to doubt myself. 😂

 

So you run your PC with fan?

 

Yes, with a fan. Nothing special, but it's silent and effective.

 

I've never tried fanless and since I hope to get to EC DSD512 someday, I don't know when I ever will 😂 

 

Does it really improve the sound?

[StreamFidelity]

16 minutes ago, k6davis said:

Does it really improve the sound?

 

Every system has its advantages and disadvantages. Fanless systems are limited in their performance, systems with active cooling may be louder. Whereby I do not just refer to the sounds. But also on electromagnetic interference.

The right system depends on the purpose. 😊

[ted_b]

Jussi, if you're watching:  you've created a need for heavier-lifting servers, and have probably minimized the damage by long-ago creating the NAA architecture.  Assuming the server-in-another-room-nearby scenario, what, in your experiences, are the best practices to minimize or eliminate the gremlins coming from an actively cooled server to your NAA (assume AL, in this example)?  5.0 Ghz wifi, for example? 

[sledwards]

While my server is in the next room over, everything is Cat5e here, and I have an optically isolated switch before the NAA. Pretty sure I am  keeping the gremlins at bay.

 

Steve

[rando]

2 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

For general considerations, I reject active fans.

 

How do you feel about inactive fans?  

 

Very nice passive cooling setup.  I completely understand Miska building a no nonsense server with fans.  Doubt he or JTS are exactly doing critical listening while working.  Importantly both recognize the need to, not so much overclock, access deep BIOS settings to rectify behavior impacting their machines chosen task.  Besides, everyone knows you wait until Winter to really push on your OC.  A 45F room and 15F outside temps are advantageous to some people's idea of fun.

 

More and more I wish the thread from a few years back trying to design and have manufactured a custom mb would have been successful.  Gaming hardware is a particular bee in my bonnet.  I might have been the only person other than JTS who was excited about the Asus WS board he owns being released.

 

 

[k6davis]

One thing I can say for sure. These EC modulators are incredible. Every aspect of the sound is improved. The differences are significant. It's the kind of improvement that makes you want to play old favorites so you can experience them in a new way.

[ted_b]

It will be interesting to hear whether the EC modulators improve DSD (say 256) enough in my setup to change the way I upsample.  My Holo Spring does a great job upsampling PCM to 384K (and DSD to 512) but I never preferred converting PCM to a DSD variant.  Maybe now I will.  We'll see...thx

[Account Closed]

3 hours ago, ted_b said:

It will be interesting to hear whether the EC modulators improve DSD (say 256) enough in my setup to change the way I upsample.  My Holo Spring does a great job upsampling PCM to 384K (and DSD to 512) but I never preferred converting PCM to a DSD variant.  Maybe now I will.  We'll see...thx

Hi Ted,

 

On my Holo Spring 2 KTE, I still prefer PCM 384 over DSD 256 with any EC modulator/filter combo for PCM source material. I will be interested to hear your take. I use HQP for both, not the internal chip of the Spring.

 

Bob

[kelvinwsy]

Just like to share EMF/RFI experiences.. 

1. Ethernet connections between HQPlayer Server and the NAA can work Without Internet.. yes Without!

2. I use a SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo and an Asus AC68 then a Netgear GS105 both on separate 12v LPSU. 

3. The Server can find the Sms200 as the Asus Ac68 provides the network protocol to the Netgear GS105 which connects to both the Server and NAA.

4. Periodically I find I hv to connect the Asus AC68 to my broadband router to hv the internet signal to 'refresh' the network settings! When do I hv to do this ? When my Dsd256 upsampling fr PCM starts minir stuttering!

5. What is my point?

I was hearing much more analogue impactful SQ without the internet router linkage. 

6. I had to do this internet refreshing 2 hours ago and even though my broadband router is also on 12v LPSU.. the SQ dropped immediately. so much more 'hard' less 'analogue' SQ. I tried the internet modem on the default SMOS.. Digital hardness creep into the SQ🤨😅

 

2 lessons I learnt..

1. Without Internet Sotm NAA works and gives wonderful SQ with high PRAT!

2. NAA with 2 levels of switch separation still lets thru internet noise which in the ethernet link

 

Guess i am waiting for the Uptone switch

 

YMMV

[asdf1000]

7 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

Fanless systems are limited in their performance

 

In your BIOS, have you selected “fanless” option?

 

What if you tell the BIOS you have a fan, so turbo boost is enabled?

 

If you have properly installed sufficient CPU passive cooling, there shouldn’t be any concern with allowing turbo-boost? Or is this the concern?

 

 

[ted_b]

19 minutes ago, bobflood said:

Hi Ted,

 

On my Holo Spring 2 KTE, I still prefer PCM 384 over DSD 256 with any EC modulator/filter combo for PCM source material. I will be interested to hear your take. I use HQP for both, not the internal chip of the Spring.

 

Bob

Bob

thanks. I kinda misspoke earlier when I said my Holo does a great job upsampling PCM. I of course meant does a great job with upsampled PCM (all upsampling done by HQP). I suspect same results as you but who knows. 

Thx

[sledwards]

28 minutes ago, kelvinwsy said:

2. NAA with 2 levels of switch separation still lets thru internet noise which in the ethernet link

I am lost as to what is the "internet noise" you perceive? I have the SoTM sMS-200 Ultra and it sounds wonderful, even with the internet connection. 

[Account Closed]

1 hour ago, ted_b said:

Bob

thanks. I kinda misspoke earlier when I said my Holo does a great job upsampling PCM. I of course meant does a great job with upsampled PCM (all upsampling done by HQP). I suspect same results as you but who knows. 

Thx

Hi Ted,

 

The EC Modulators at 256 with the poly-sinc EXT 2 filter does sound great but I guess I prefer the sound of PCM when converted by a true multi-bit DAC like the Spring. To me it has a bit more life. The PCM--> DSD/SDM process seems to round it off a bit. If one has a typical chip DAC, then the comparison is really to the chip designer's version of SDM to Jussi's version of SDM. I think that there is a whole generation who has not really heard PCM. I am old enough to have had one of the first Revox CD players with a 14 bit R2R ladder DAC inside and it was the best CD player I ever had. I kept it until they couldn't fix it. Looking forward to your results.

 

A quick suggestion; why not move all the posts in the HQP thread on this subject to this thread.

 

Thanks,

 

Bob

[ted_b]

18 minutes ago, bobflood said:

A quick suggestion; why not move all the posts in the HQP thread on this subject to this thread.

I'm not that thread's moderator so I can't do it. 

[Account Closed]

6 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I'm not that thread's moderator so I can't do it. 

Paging Jussi 

[Account Closed]

8 minutes ago, ted_b said:

I'm not that thread's moderator so I can't do it. 

Paging freesteve.

[kelvinwsy]

3 hours ago, sledwards said:

I am lost as to what is the "internet noise" you perceive? I have the SoTM sMS-200 Ultra and it sounds wonderful, even with the internet connection. 

 

[AnotherSpin]

5 hours ago, kelvinwsy said:

Just like to share EMF/RFI experiences.. 

1. Ethernet connections between HQPlayer Server and the NAA can work Without Internet.. yes Without!

2. I use a SOTM SMS200 Ultra Neo and an Asus AC68 then a Netgear GS105 both on separate 12v LPSU. 

3. The Server can find the Sms200 as the Asus Ac68 provides the network protocol to the Netgear GS105 which connects to both the Server and NAA.

4. Periodically I find I hv to connect the Asus AC68 to my broadband router to hv the internet signal to 'refresh' the network settings! When do I hv to do this ? When my Dsd256 upsampling fr PCM starts minir stuttering!

5. What is my point?

I was hearing much more analogue impactful SQ without the internet router linkage. 

6. I had to do this internet refreshing 2 hours ago and even though my broadband router is also on 12v LPSU.. the SQ dropped immediately. so much more 'hard' less 'analogue' SQ. I tried the internet modem on the default SMOS.. Digital hardness creep into the SQ🤨😅

 

2 lessons I learnt..

1. Without Internet Sotm NAA works and gives wonderful SQ with high PRAT!

2. NAA with 2 levels of switch separation still lets thru internet noise which in the ethernet link

 

Guess i am waiting for the Uptone switch

 

YMMV

 

It could depend on system/components. My set would be similar in certain level (macmini with HQP -> Netgear GS105 -> NUC NAA) When Netgear was powered by generic PSU I heard difference between router connected and disconnected mode. Now, when it powered with LPSU the difference, if any, is so small I do not bother with router connection anymore. Plan to get LPS for router, however...)