The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[Ralf11]

OTOH, it is possible to be too large...

 

 

[Ralf11]

maybe a marmot could access the EV thru the cooling system...

[Ralf11]

Pessimism:

https://phys.org/earth-news/environment/

 

Optimism:

https://phys.org/technology-news/energy-green-tech/

[Ralf11]

the push by the NG co. here is to use NG derived from cattle/pig feeding operations & landfills 

 

- at least they are putting up ads on doing it; the city and likely the state, has them worried

 

I expect delivery vehicles to be EVs pretty soon; UPS, FedEx, & USPS have a consortium they founded to design/select a std. vehicle

 

over the highway/long-haul trucks - as in your pic - will take longer

[Ralf11]

methane is CH4 so it increases "carbon" in the atmosphere, but methane, while a powerful GHG, doesn't last in the atmosphere like CO2 does

 

it's good to keep it out of the atmosphere of course

 

yes, UPS has a test program with Tesla (& others) - my point is that a delivery truck is nearly an ideal use for an EV as vs. long-haul

[Ralf11]

the biggie with NG, methane, etc. is the large amount that leaks into the atmosphere

 

here is one of the many drones outfitted with a methane detector to pinpoint the location of leaks:

 

 

 

[Ralf11]

it's broke

[Ralf11]

here's a quickie explanation

 

https://www.forbes.com/sites/trevornace/2019/06/18/greenland-lost-4-trillion-pounds-of-ice-in-just-1-day/#2706787e50f9

[Ralf11]

https://advances.sciencemag.org/content/5/6/eaav9396

 

[Ralf11]

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/06/19/climate/seawalls-cities-cost-climate-change.html?action=click&module=Well&pgtype=Homepage&section=Climate and Environment

 

[Ralf11]

You could summarize the key points w/o any legal trouble...

 

 

BTW, "researchers who study the dire effects of climate change" have moved from the US to Scandinavia.  One guy moved his family to Denmark.

[Ralf11]

https://thehill.com/opinion/energy-environment/462609-cutting-climate-pollution-isnt-enough-we-also-need-carbon-removal

[Ralf11]

She is 16 and has Asperger's - cut her a break.

 

 

[Ralf11]

Ms. Thunberg is telling us the truth about climate change, not just her feelings.  (unless I missed something in her stmts.)

 

There are 3 major effects of  climate change:

1. global warming

2. ocean acidification

3. shifts that favor plants using certain photosynthetic pathways (which favor high CO2) - that is now causing disruption of some ecosystem types in the US, and is a major contribution to extinction of some bird species

 

I left out ocean deoxygenation as I don't know how major an effect it is.

 

Human civilization may well be imperiled by climate change, or it may just be set back somewhat - perhaps a few centuries.  I call it the "New Dark Ages."

 

And I am an optimist among my scientific peers.

 

I consider it sufficiently important that I moved from one research area to another, as well as doing some other things.

 

Dennis, I don't think you grasp the clear danger, and suggest you read the latest IPCC reports or at least the summaries.

[Ralf11]

workable fixes?

 

workable mitigation includes rapid deployment of solar PV, nukes (not rapid), NG as a transition fuel, and quite a few other things

 

due to the lag time (or dwell time in the atmosphere) of CO2 there is no workable fix - carbon capture is in R&D right now

 

- your posts don't appear to comport with the reading you've done, so I think you are not coming across well

 

 

[Ralf11]

speaking of funding....

 

The fossil fuel industry hired the same PR firm to sow doubt and confusion that the tobacco companies used for the same ends

 

 

[Ralf11]

9 minutes ago, firedog said:

I hope shtf keeps posting this crap. He'll end up on so many ignore lists that he and Chris will be the only ones who see his posts. 

 

well, there may be some abnormal psychologists on here who would want to view his posts to generate a research paper

[Ralf11]

4 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

...put all the stupid white conservative men in concentration camps.....

 

please!!    tennis prisons

[Ralf11]

No, prior generations did NOT make the best decisions they could.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, esldude said:

I think collectively at the time they did. I certainly don't think they were thinking, " you know we could trash the future environment making it easier on us. So let's do that. We don't care about our grandchildren.".

 

Politicians were thinking "how can I get elected" & biz people were thinking "I'll get mine" - to say nothing of the aggressive PR campaigns by the fossil fuel industry.

[Ralf11]

the things I mentioned earlier

[Ralf11]

I want our expensive research towards CO2 and other pollution reduction to be given to China, India, and everyone else.

[Ralf11]

1 hour ago, pkane2001 said:

 

1. It will reduce human carbon emissions very quickly, but will not do much about the carbon already in the atmosphere.

 

2. The Earth eco-system is self-regulating, and when pushed too far, it will most certainly push back.

 

 

1. for human extinction, yes

 

2. This is a blandishment.  There is little to support that the biosphere is self-regulating (which is no doubt what you mean by Earth ecosystem; and ecosystem is a biological community in a certain area plus all the abiotic components involved).

 

Indeed, there are usually multiple stable points and limit cycles in even simple dynamical systems, such as competition or predator-prey interactions.  Within a single population there do appear to be some factors that are self-regulating, but often popns. are regulated by extrinsic factors.

 

Want math?

 

The global carbon and methane 'system' (climate change) is known to not be self-regulating, but is KNOWN to contain some very rapid transition effects: 

 

One is interruption of the Atlantic ocean conveyor system by large flows of fresh water from Greenland ice melts.  You will not want to (try and) live in Europe after that happens.

 

Another is the large stores of methane in permafrost in Siberia, Alaska, N. Canada which seem to be becoming uncovered and released into the atmosphere right now due to warming in those areas

 

These phenomena of very rapid state transitions are usually called tipping points in the popular literature.

 

In mathematics, they fall under the term catastrophe theory.

[Ralf11]

4 hours ago, esldude said:

I think he means extrinsic to a given population or ecosystem which would still be on earth.  Though meteors and sun output would qualify as well. 

 

The so called tipping points are the real concern.  Methane release could happen in a big way in a decade or two, and cause really rapid warming.  And while the methane would go away in another decade the warmed earth would tend to stay warmed.  Warmed to the point most of the globe is uninhabitable by humans and many other forms of life. 

 

yes, an example re self-regulation

 

extrinsic factors for climate change could include (or have included) atmospheric dust from collisions with meteors or comets; solar output changes - one might as well include long time-scale events like the jitter from large-scale vulcanism (Google Deccan Traps*) etc.

 

 

* and BTW, Deccan Traps would be a great name for a brand or bass traps for room treatments

[Ralf11]

https://phys.org/news/2019-10-scientists-dendrites-whiskers-lithium-batteries.html