The Environmental thread + Conventional (HI-FI) wisdom is almost always invariably wrong

[charlesphoto]

3 hours ago, esldude said:

Please don't use the NYT as a source.  They openly decided to become opposition to the elected president of the US.  They've thrown away their credibility.  You are doing the same with your claiming a dictatorship.  Don't be so ridiculous, and melodramatic.  Elections don't go how you want at all times.  It still how the system works.  I'd also like less influence from corporations, but that doesn't make it a dictatorship. 

 

Give me/us a break with the 'fake news' meme. Electing a real estate mob family to the WH with a corrupt Senate (two words: Merrick Garland) is a recipe for disaster - and as near this country has or will come to dictatorship (a wanna be one at the least) - so of course the NYT etc is going to report it like it is, not like the Trumpers believe it should be. 

[charlesphoto]

Greta Thunberg imo is all that CAN be right about the world - Trump the sheer embodiment of all that is wrong. Perhaps it takes a small girl with Asperger's to wake up the narcissists of this world. I applaud her and hope she and others like her never put down the torch.

 

I know I become terribly upset at what my children will witness re climate change just in their lifetime - how do you think they feel? I know old conservative men couldn't give a sh*t about children and their feelings - unless of course they haven't been born yet.  The world needs a Manhattan Project NOW to deal with the mess we've ALL created. She's just telling it like it is and expressing the feelings of her generation. Our generation doesn't care, so why shouldn't hers? And by excoriating or making fun of her,  that's just proving her point all that much more.

[charlesphoto]

"Hysterical?" The only person being hysterical (and exploiting feelings) these days is Trump and his minions. Why is emotion (about an emotional subject at that) from a woman or a child so often branded as hysterical by males? Embarrassing....

[charlesphoto]

You really don't want to give this young woman the benefit of the doubt do you, esldud? You really think there's some kind of conspiracy here, and that she is a 'pawn.' Nice way to deny her power as an individual. She is terrified, as we all should be, and instead of waiting around for the adults to do something, has vocalized the panic most kids feel these days.

 

Obviously NOT panicking hasn't done shit, so it is time to panic and instill fear. It's human to put off difficult duties, but the time has come to put politics and machismo aside and start doing something. You know it's not the planet that's going to die - it's been here billions of years and will be here at least another billion, even if it's just a hard cold rock with some bacteria. No, it's humans that are going to die in the end. As DJT would say, 'A great beautiful death, or at least I heard from somebody it will be. But what do I know? Might be death, might be life." 

 

[charlesphoto]

Yep. 

[charlesphoto]

20 minutes ago, esldude said:

EDIT: oh yeah, not panicking hasn't worked so let us panic.  Or maybe not ignoring it hasn't worked so less ignore it.  Or maybe not starving off people so there is less energy needed hasn't worked so less starve off a few billion to save everyone else.  I'd hope you had the logical capabilities of a 16 year old, but it looks like you are more around an 8 year old.  

 

You used panic so I ran with it; how about grave concern instead? No, panic doesn’t work in here and now, life and death situations, but ‘panic’ for abstract things like this can work as a wake up call.  Look at the freaking weather - you may not be panicking but there sure are a lot of people that are, esp in the Caribbean and Gulf states. And most of them are adults. Perhaps they should just take a more measured approach - maybe pitching a few rolls of paper towels at them will Make Everything Great Again. 

 

And I’d rather be an illogical eight year old than a grown man who’s so full of themselves they feel the need to take down a sixteen year old girl from Sweden on a mission to try and save us from ourselves. 

[charlesphoto]

5 hours ago, esldude said:

She may not live to be 30 as she is so fearful and panicked daily.  Nothing to do with climate change.  

 

I'd place a sizable wager that the world population will be larger in 14 years (when Greta is 30) than it is now.  Care to put up?  

 

This is the most ridiculous thing you've written yet. Daily? If I was on the world stage I would act how I want the world to hear my message. So she should just be a polite girl and not talk except when spoken to, and never on difficult subjects? Go back to the Victorian Age please (or are you just stuck in the 1950's?). And you don't know anything about her except from her few weeks of media appearances. Anyone that can pilot a boat across the Atlantic on their own isn't just wallowing in depression and self pity.

 

And she totally owned Trump on Twitter (replacing his backhanded insult as her bio), proving that she has a thick skin and a sense of humor, neither of which our current President has. Lets not even begin about the ability to take the higher road....

[charlesphoto]

6 hours ago, esldude said:

I live in the gulf states area.  The people here have less concern than they should.  You apparently also stereotyped me like wdw did as a climate denier.  I'm not.  And I'm not trying to take down a 16 year old girl.  She should be protected and guided to make a real difference.  Her well expressed genuine fear is another sort of wake up call.  Just not the one you seem to prefer.  Not the one that makes you feel righteous as a grown man based upon the notoriety of a 16 year old girl's fear.  You should feel ashamed she feels this way.  

 

I feel ashamed my ten year old lives in fear of climate change. And we make a point to not talk about it at home (though he's actually better about it now than three years ago). Please just stop with the 'being used' meme. You, Mansr etc should be ashamed of that. Why can't young people have a voice? Or better, young people should have a voice. Just like with Parkland, they're the ones most at risk, yet are constantly told that they're not mature enough , or just let the adults handle it (right...). 

 

And FTR I can read: I never thought you were a climate change denier - in fact much of what you say makes sense - though imo we need to start fast, not slow, as slow isn't working. You're just oddly conservative and triggered for some reason by this passionate young woman. 

[charlesphoto]

45 minutes ago, esldude said:

So your 7 year old daughter(3 years ago) was fearful enough you have to avoid the subject?  I'm sorry for you.  It shouldn't be that way.  This is what I don't like. 

 

 

 

Son, not daughter (she's a different beast). No, it shouldn't be. Our kids shouldn't have to be having active shooter drills either in 2019. But it's the reality. But me not telling my kids they are fucked is not the same as Thunberg telling world leaders to fuck off and do something already and stop holding future generations hostage in order to inflate the stock market. Scaring other kids was not the intention of her speech. 

 

EDIT: and why do you persist with the 'being used' conspiracy. Pretty sure she caught everybody by surprise with that speech, including her sponsors. I believe she knows how to speak for herself. 

[charlesphoto]

Consuming smarter would be a step in the right direction. Unfortunately plastic is here to stay as the US ramps up even more factories (jobs!) so investment in plastic disposal and recycling such as Germany and Japan have would be a small start. Recycling could be huge, but the way it's currently implemented isn't working. It needs to be streamlined from the actual packaging through to the consumer and then return. Electric vehicles, roll back clean air regulations that have been rolled back, initiatives to localize our food sources as much as possible, solar, nuclear, and the list goes on.

 

But the adults need to act like adults. It is sad that it takes a child to scold the world. We have not been good parents. 

[charlesphoto]

2 hours ago, mansr said:

She certainly isn't paying for those stunts out of her weekly allowance. Her parents aren't that rich, even if they are minor celebrities in Sweden.

 

They probably don't have $10k speakers at home either... everybody has different priorities in life. But to you triggered types everything is a George Soros conspiracy...

[charlesphoto]

4 hours ago, firedog said:

Can I ask why it's important to emphasize that he's a "naturalized" citizen? Does that somehow make him less of a citizen?

 

My wife is a naturalized citizen. Never knew she was part of a giant globalist conspiracy to take over America and put all the stupid white conservative men in concentration camps.... actually, on second thought... maybe she's on to something... 

 

But I'll just stick to ignore lists, both of which esldude and sthf are now on ( they're the first). Threads like this are good for that. 

[charlesphoto]

53 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

I mostly agree with Ms. Thunberg. But I don't like her attitude; it's confrontional and not helpful. Angry people don't impress me.  YMMV. 

 

Yes, perhaps she should have taken some charm lessons from the President's daughter, parted her hair down the middle and used lots of expensive make up, wore some designer dresses, and flirted and pouted while twirling her luxurious blonde locks. Look how that's worked out....

 

It's a new era - get used to it.