Amused to Death - QSound.

[STC]

In my early stereophiles days,  I used Too Much Rope track to demonstrate how an accurate system could reproduce the effect where the horse carriage will go from left to right. This effect is possible because of phase manipulation and depends on your system setup and room reflection for a perfect reproduction.

 

In a proper XTC system, it should emerge 90 degrees from your left and end 90 degrees to your right.  At least that's how it sounds in my system.  Here is a review of BACCH XTC using the same track as a reference.

 

" I noticed that show attendees were awaiting their turn in the two single-file chairs at the center of the room. When I sat down in the sweet spot, I was treated to several tracks, most notably “Too Much Rope” from Roger Waters’ Amused to Death. Near the beginning of the track there is the sound of a huge lumbering sleigh moving across the soundstage from left to right. Dr. Choueiri played the track without the BACCH-SP and yes, it moved from left to right. With the BACCH-SP in the system, the noise appeared far off behind the left speaker, at 10 o’clock, and got closer as it moved to the right until it exited the room well behind me at 4 o’clock. That’s right, it moved right through me—diagonally."

 

 

And here is the actual sound recorded from my listening spot with 17 cm space microphone placed near the ear. You could hear it going directly from left to right with slight sensation slightly behind your head when it crosses your head. I may have figured out a better way to do crosstalk cancellation . Would anyone be interested to work with me to turn this into a product? Please let me know if you want to demo it for yourself. I have the prepossessed file which you can play in your current system. The YouTube would not create the effect as it was a recording of sound that is heard at my listening spot but the separation from left to right can be heard clearly with headphones.

 

 

 

 

 

[PeterSt]

ST, this could be a too general description of something which now comes across as normal. I mean, something going from left to right ... (I admit, "right through you" as per the description is something else, but a. I don't experience it like that and b. it shouldn't be like that IMO - although it would imply death as such).

 

The album is full with better examples, though less easy to explain (e.g. Three Wishes).

 

Try Vogue from Madonna's Immaculate Collection. This is straight from front to back across the sealing. Easiest example at the end: the dying out flying over your head Vogue - vogue - vogue - vogue. This ends up straight behind you, at the back wall.

 

And then you still might need better motivation because that just works as is, in-room.

As often, I might be missing the plot ... 

[STC]

3 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

ST, this could be a too general description of something which now comes across as normal. I mean, something going from left to right ... (I admit, "right through you" as per the description is something else, but a. I don't experience it like that and b. it shouldn't be like that IMO - although it would imply death as such).

 

The album is full with better examples, though less easy to explain (e.g. Three Wishes).

 

Try Vogue from Madonna's Immaculate Collection. This is straight from front to back across the sealing. Easiest example at the end: the dying out flying over your head Vogue - vogue - vogue - vogue. This ends up straight behind you, at the back wall.

 

And then you still might need better motivation because that just works as is, in-room.

As often, I might be missing the plot ... 

 

Peter, the first time I heard this was at an acoustician demoing the effect using QSound player. The horse sleigh did move from left to right in a straight line. During the initial stage of my stereophonic setup it moved in a S shape then when I got my dedicated room, it moved from left to right in a straight line. Currently, it moves at 0 degrees from left to right in a straight line. 

 

Thanks for suggesting other tracks. Will try them but I think when it goes through Youtube there could be some timing error when it gets converted to low rez. After all, this effect is possible when the left and right channel is accurate with the timing in microseconds difference. 

 

A better example is here. 

 

 

[PeterSt]

Yeah, I think you now added the straight line. I never thought of that, but now it speaks to me.

I think it is a straight line here, but certainly not at 0 degrees.

 

Maybe it is important to add this:

 

My current room can not be used for QSound very well. My previous room (and house) seemed perfect for it. But mind you please: just acoustically and no further processing. Also no headphones while I recall that QSound officially works for headphones only (easy to look up, which I just don't - haha). So ... in my previous house I had perfect QSound (or the good representation of the phase manipulation). I know this is room-treatment dependent, hence it is very room dependent.

 

If I am right that QSound is for headphones then all I claim about in-room stuff (no processor for it) is illegal to begin with.

Still it could be interesting to know for you it can be done. But don't ask me how.

[STC]

QSound was meant for stereo loudspeakers. They could have invented new version for headphones. Too lazy to check. My old Denon AV received had one. Not sure of my current Marantz receiver. 

 

This track is very useful for system setup because. 

 

1) to get a perfect straight line, your system must be precisely balanced and accurate between the two channels output. 

 

2) Room acoustics must symmetrical.

 

Anyway, the description of diagonal movement is understandable. I can replicate that too which IMO is wrong way to do XTC.  

[mevdinc]

After reading all the comments above, I listened to Too Much Rope again just out of curiosity. I like the whole album and most tracks contain great effects that on good systems always manage to surprise and startle the listener.

Listening to this track with a little more intent I was shocked to discover that the sound of sleigh starts way out to my left and it completely envelops me as it moves across all the way to the right of me with amazing depth.

I'm sitting quite close to my big ATCs and with no effects applied, just straight forward stereo.
I'm listening to the whole album now, thanks.

 

[STC]

7 minutes ago, mevdinc said:

discover that the sound of sleigh starts way out to my left and it completely envelops me as it moves across all the way to the right of me with amazing depth...

 

It suppose to extend beyond the left speakers. How many degrees do you think?  And the movement should be straight. 

[mevdinc]

1 minute ago, STC said:

 

It suppose to extend beyond the left speakers. How many degrees do you think?  And the movement should be straight. 

It extends well beyond the left and right speakers in perfect line (curve), the sound is very well defined and so easy to follow from left to right. Not sure about the degrees but it sounds more surround than stereo, amazing really.
I get that with a lot of similar effects. ATCs are well known for tremendous sound stage and depth.

[STC]

Thanks. QSound supposed to do that. The curve indicates some difference in room acoustics in the centre. 

[mevdinc]

2 minutes ago, STC said:

Thanks. QSound supposed to do that. The curve indicates some difference in room acoustics in the centre. 

After your question I listened to it again and, indeed, the line is completely straight. I believe the depth is just the overall strength/effect of my system which is constant in different rooms I've been using it in.
That's why I used the word 'envelop', I'm very close the my speakers and it does feel like I'm listening to music with a massive headphone system. I feel quite spoilt. 
 

[arcman]

For headphone listening, The ORB/David Gilmour project from a few years ago had a Binaural disc 2 of the album. 

 

Play this thru your headphones, really is amazing how simple, old binaural microphones/process provides a real surround effect. Even thru speakers, the music selection sounds really nice

 

 

 

[ipeverywhere]

I've not heard a lot of Q Sound recordings but one of my favorite is Sting - The Soul Cages

 

Some fun placement of sounds and instruments throughout that album including the very end. 

[STC]

12 hours ago, arcman said:

For headphone listening, The ORB/David Gilmour project from a few years ago had a Binaural disc 2 of the album. 

 

Play this thru your headphones, really is amazing how simple, old binaural microphones/process provides a real surround effect. Even thru speakers, the music selection sounds really nice

 

 

 

 

 

Binaural recording is 3D sound. Ideally, that’s the sound you want hear from your loudspeakers.

[audiobomber]

😦 That haircut video was scary as hell!

[Miska]

On 4/12/2019 at 6:32 AM, STC said:

In my early stereophiles days,  I used Too Much Rope track to demonstrate how an accurate system could reproduce the effect where the horse carriage will go from left to right. This effect is possible because of phase manipulation and depends on your system setup and room reflection for a perfect reproduction.

 

I like more the track where fighter place approaches, drops a bomb which then explodes. You can literally hear the pieces from explosion rolling over the floor.

 

There are many other 3D things over the album though.

 

I have the CD anniversary Master Sound 24 carat gold disc of this album... It also demonstrates Sony's SBM (Super Bit Mapping) noise-shaped dither.

 

[STC]

8 hours ago, Miska said:

I like more the track where fighter place approaches, drops a bomb which then explodes. You can literally hear the pieces from explosion rolling over the floor.

 

Is in the Amused to Death Album? Honestly, I use this album just for setup and I don't ever recall listening to them for music. Certainly not even one whole track at a time. 😳

[Miska]

5 hours ago, STC said:

Is in the Amused to Death Album? Honestly, I use this album just for setup and I don't ever recall listening to them for music. Certainly not even one whole track at a time. 😳

 

Yes, it is on the album just like many other things, for example with the Genie. It is good album also in terms of music, although I like like Gilmour's solo productions more.

 

[STC]

23 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, it is on the album just like many other things, for example with the Genie. It is good album also in terms of music, although I like like Gilmour's solo productions more.

 

 

Yes, i remember. It was in a track with water dripping. Thanks. It has been a long time I played that. 

[Miska]

Explosion is at the end Late Home Tonight Pt.1... Three Wishes has the genie and lady speaking a bit distant on the side. But as I said, there are many effects all over the album.

[STC]

16 hours ago, Miska said:

I like more the track where fighter place approaches, drops a bomb which then explodes. You can literally hear the pieces from explosion rolling over the floor.

 

Okay, it sounded different.  The water drop is to the left 90 degrees. Unlike in my stereo setup, it doesn't shift to the front when I turn the head to left. 

 

The jet emerges from the back of your head and the explosion at the front expand horizontally. Not exactly rushing towards you as described the pulsating  LF which also more of horizontal effect. 

[PeterSt]

@Roger Waters, what was intended here ?

[STC]

It is always a challenge to reproduce the QSound effect of Amused to Death as accurately as possible because room factor can affect the imaging. This is the best I could get so far using my own Ambiophonics crosstalk cancellation. The is some loss of bass in the Sennheiser microphones.