New OSX Opensource audiophile player : Audirvana

[tpan]

"Do you get the "CPU over" warning with it?"

No CPU warning

 

"Can you also try with unchecking the "Use max I/O buffer size" ?

I already had "Use max I/O buffer size" and "Exclusive Access Mode" checked off. To be sure, I restared computer and checked settings are still set correctly. No luck, same clicking.

 

Other info:

- Changed Max mem allocted for track preload to 3072. No improvement

- Checked Audio Midi setup and it correctly set to HRT Music Stream II+ as output device with 96k/24b

- Mac mini has 4gb mem. No other apps running when testing Audirvana

- I noticed that right after a track started in Audirvana I could go into preferences to reset (Change) preferered audio device back to the same Music Streamer II+ and the clicking would go away. This tells me there is something wrong with the handshake with my device/driver.

- On one 9min track I noticed the clicking came back towards the end of the track.

 

Overall I do think the music sounds great.

 

 

[Guest Analoganimal]

Thanks wgscott and damien78 for your useful comments.

 

Still curious how come two applications both aiming for Core Audio HAL playback still sounds so different?

 

I do think some people will prefer Audirvana while others will prefer AyreWave. There will obviously be a "to each his own" effect. I am therefore more interested in discussing the audible differences rather than picking "a winner".

 

From my audiophile point of view, I am simply curious what makes the fairly extreme difference in sound character? This is clearly audible (to keen audiophile listeners a bit above "tin ear" level :-D) even when listening to the built in MacBook Pro crap speakers.

 

Assuming that both the Audirvana developer and the AyreWave developer are aiming for each their desirable sonic direction, the interesting thing is what tools or parameters they are juggling to achieve their target sound?

 

While continuing to listen both to Audirvana and AyreWave properly enabling their exclusive mode/hog mode and highest possible memory settings; so far each of the two have retained it's own "sound character". Before each listening I update to the latest available version, and I am of course listening to see if something happens that will "flip" sound character and therefore my personal preference. So far this has not happened.

 

Assuming there is no (The?) Absolute Sound, or an ideal sound, there must be ways of tailoring the sound to the developers taste.

 

Maybe this is each developer's "trade secret", or is there a general non-proprietary description of what the "tools of the trade" are?

 

[tpan]

Damien, Noticed your question was to try setting "Use max I/O buffer" to off. I did that and the clicking went away.

 

 

[bluedy1]

I am very impatient to try it tonight.

 

[soundscape]

@Analoganimal

 

> "Still curious how come two applications both aiming for Core Audio HAL playback still sounds so different?"

 

So am I. Without knowing much about CoreAudio/Hal, I would have expected that an Audiophile player would output the bits in a lossless file as they are, bit-perfect and with optimally constant timing/clocking (least jitter possible). Knowing about jitter as a potential problem which has an influence on the sound, it is understandable that there are possible differences when connecting via USB, Firewire or optical Toslink, but these differences I would expect to be defined by the hardware.

 

> "Assuming that both the Audirvana developer and the AyreWave developer are aiming for each their desirable sonic direction, the interesting thing is what tools or parameters they are juggling to achieve their target sound?"

 

Heh. Perhaps the ideal application would offer any such parameter as a user-customizable option?

 

Aside from the differences I have described previously, there is a passage within a specific track where one app seems to emphasize the instrumental part, and the other app seems to emphasize the voice part. In this specific case, though perhaps a coincidence, the instrumental part is in the higher tones, and the voice in the lower tones.

 

Perhaps you experience a similar difference, which would allow us to perhaps to identify more "objective" differences which we might agree on?

 

[Adyc]

Same here. No clicking when Use max I/O buffer is off.

 

[RHA]

I also am getting a clicking/spitting sound during playback using the ULN-2. I noticed in a previous post there might have been a problem with the LIO-8. I have tried every combo in preferences from all off to all on. No change, still clicking/spitting. If I change to built-in output it plays fine through the built in iMac speakers. In fact it sound GREAT. It does not show CPU overs unless i select the force upsampling. I only have 1gb of memory and cannot change the max memory allocated (or else I don't know how to do it). Any suggestions?

 

[damien78]

Good to know that clicking happens only when maximizing buffer size. One thing that puzzles me is that the max buffer size is not a power of two. As most coders think in power of two...

I'll change it in next release so that max buffer size is the highest power of two allowed for the device. (e.g. 8192 for tpan's DAC). You'll tell me if that helps.

The goal is still to increase the I/O buf size as this is a strong CPU load reducer (when from 8% to 2% on Built-in output on my MBP).

But anyway, there is still the fallback on "no increase" if clicking is still present...

 

Adyc & RHA: can you send me the debug logs so I get more info on your DAC ?

 

[eternaloptimist]

I am just so impressed the OP has taken on such a task!

Hopefully the iTunes dev group don't send ninjas after him... just kidding!

 

[LejfK]

Hi there. First, thanks so much for the program. I was on the verge of buying a license for PM but the sound of this program is really growing on me.

 

Still, I'm interested in some form of ITunes integration. I've created a number of classical and jazz playlists which I like to play shuffled either by track (jazz) or album (classical). I noticed a few posts back that you had some iTunes integration ideas. Care to elaborate?

 

[One and a half]

Works wonderful, just music, no clicking.

 

[damien78]

It is to provide access to iTunes database (readonly) from Audirvana, with a UI close to iTunes library browser.

In addition FLAC and other files from folders other than iTunes' will be included.

Remote control will be another challenge where I'm not sure (technical as well as legal reasons) Apple Remote App can be used. Thus uPnP will be the best other solution.

 

[mugsy]

I just happened to glance at the forum this evening and noticed the thread on Audirvana.

 

Downloaded it out of curiosity and I have to say it sounds like I just got a significant upgrade of my Hi-Fi for free. Thank you VERY much for this superb application

 

I used to think optical out of my Mac mini (2009 version) was an inferior sounding cousin to coaxial connection from my CD transport to the DAC, but my DAC (Gigaworks 24/192 with several mods & using UTC output tranformers) sounds fantastic this evening. Amazing! I didn't think a change from iTunes with - supposedly - bit perfect output would sound any different from something else. Nice to be proved wrong

 

Music sounds far better resolved, more 'organic' and natural, more presence. Hi-hats in particular are very well resolved now and easy to follow, rather than sounding like sand slithering around in a box! Dare I say it my digital files sound far closer to good analogue now.

 

Very much looking forward to the future harnessing of the iTunes database - that'll make it so much easier and conveniant to use.

 

I only have one minor problem and that is an occasional gap in the music, or stutter. I'm only using 1GB ram so perhaps that is the reason? It's after music has been paused for a while too, and then started again.

 

Thanks again for being so generous in providing this fantastic sounding alternative to the expensive players out there. Really does sound fantastic (and this is using the Mac mini's often derided optical output!).

 

- John

 

[damien78]

John: Thanks for your comment!

 

For your occasional gap, it may be explained by the RAM amount available.

The reason may be in this case that OSX begins to swap out the buffer that has been used because the player was paused for a while.

So it needs to reload it from disk and it is not instantaneous, thus the shutter when restarting playback.

 

[damien78]

New release 0.2.0 now includes background tracks loading.

This makes sample rate (up)conversion usable, as the long latency before playback start is now gone.

Sample rate converters used: Apple SRC for ALAC & compressed formats (setting to master quality), libSampleRate for FLAC, WAV & AIFF (setting to Sync Medium quality, max was too slow).

Note that sample rate conversion happens during sound playback and increases the CPU load. It thus may impact SQ during the load operation.

 

Also I prepared for split load when the allocated mem buffer is too small to load the entire track. It now loads as much as it can of too long tracks. Note that the playback will pause at the end of the loaded part for now. This is normal behavior until I implement the remaining of split load.

 

And I maxed the IO buffer size used (when option is selected) to a value that is a power of two. Can those who have DACs that showed clicking with this max buffer size option test it again ?

 

[Bob Stern]

Thanks, Damien!

 

Re Apple's SRC settings, in addition to setting the "Complexity" parameter (kAudioConverterSampleRateConverterComplexity) to Master (bats), I hope you also set the "Quality" parameter (kAudioConverterSampleRateConverterQuality) to Max (127).

 

 

p.s. If you're wondering why I don't volunteer my programming services to your project, I'm actually not a programmer at all. I tried to learn a little Obj-C in order to create a simple script to change the sample rate in Audio MIDI, but I gave up. I couldn't figure out how to read the array of audio device properties, find the ID of a named device (my DAC), and then change its sample rate.

 

[wgscott]

If anyone wants to write an open-source command-line utility to do that, I would saw my left arm off with gratitude.

 

[Adyc]

No more clicking sound with or without IO buffer size used. However, with the new version, I have 2 problems:

 

1. It will not skip to next track when the current track finishes playing. I have to manually press the skip button to play the next track.

 

2. When I enable "Force Upsampling", the sound is very weird. Actually, the sound seems slow down by half. My dac QB9 shows that the upsampling frequency is 88 but the player shows it is 176. However, my QB9 does not support 176.

 

[mugsy]

Wow a new version again already - awsome

 

Still marvelling at how much better it sounds than iTunes. This is through a Little Dot III headphone amp plus a pair of Audio-Technica ATH-AD700 headphones now. Best way to describe it is music sounds more 'relaxed' and sure of itself (NOT to be confused with dull or boring!). Quiet parts in classical music sound more refined and there's more detail. Obviously this was being obscured slightly by digital 'haze' caused - I imagine - via iTunes. It's like getting used to slightly poor eye-sight and then having a new glasses prescription! All snaps into focus! Damn and there I was thinking bit perfect digital is bit perfect and it all sounds the same. Why is audiophile life so complex??!

 

Not sure if this is on the 'to do' list, but would it be possible to also display track and disc number information? Thanks.

 

 

- John

 

[tpan]

No clicking with my DAC at all. Also tried large 24/172 track and it loaded much quicker than before and downsampled nicely to 24/96. On another 10 min long track it loaded fine and played through to completion without a hitch.

 

Oh, and by the way I really enjoyed the music as I was trying this out. Nice work. Cant wait to see some of your ideas on iTunes integration --I like the idea of being independent of iTunes but tapping into it's database when I feel like it. Tom

 

[SteveS1]

"I like the idea of being independent of iTunes but tapping into it's database when I feel like it." Tom

 

Yes that would be a major advantage. Being able to track/artist/playlist/album select using 'Remote' like Pure Music would be killer, of course. But this app sounds great, well done.

 

Steve

 

[damien78]

Both parameters are set to max quality: kAudioConverterSampleRateConverterComplexity to Master

kAudioConverterSampleRateConverterQuality to Max.

 

And it's still fast enough for realtime!

So I'm wondering if I'll not replace libsamplerate by Apple SRC for FLAC,AIFF & WAV also. Or offer choice.

 

What are your thoughts on compared quality of these two SRC ?

 

[mugsy]

I'm also having problems with having to manually begin each sequential track since the latest update.

 

Cheers,

 

- John

 

[damien78]

John: Is it for any kind of track or for some specific ones (duration, file type (ALAC, FLAC, AIFF, ...)) ?

 

[mugsy]

Hi there.

 

It's happened on three lossless ALAC albums so far since I updated the software yesterday (ALACs created by XLD). Duration of tracks approx. 4-5 minutes each.

 

Incidentally, just compared Audirvana with AyreWave. Whilst AyreWave is good, it doesn't sound that much better than iTunes to my ears. Yours is definitly the one to beat as far as I am concerned. So much more natural, and ALL the detail is there, but not 'in your face'. Bass has a really nice weight to it too. Again not overblown but very natural. I hope you never make any changes to the core of the software as it sounds perfect

 

Cheers,

 

- John