Mytek Stereo 192

[earflappin]

"Do USB and FireWire interfaces at Mytek differ in terms of noise/jitter resistance?"

 

KarolG, great question. I've been wondering about this myself. It will be interesting to hear MyTek's response. Has it already been others' experience that the MyTek sounds better with a CAPS server versus a Mac or PC?

 

[pjomaestro]

Yeves Is this pdf for beta version or normal version ?

 

Ted If using normal nonbeta version, what name should be typed in ?

 

[willshaw]

Thanks, Ted. I also hope the XLR direct to amp would sound 3 dimnesional instead of 2 dimensional or washed out. Cheers.

 

 

 

[Miska]

I wonder if the CAPS 2 has enough horsepower to run the HQPlayer software for playing DSD64 and DSD128 files on the Mytek DSD DAC.

 

When playing back DSD directly it is very lightweight. Given that with USB on my Core i3 laptop it takes less than 1% CPU time I would assume it works fine on CAPS 2 too. Firewire driver may cause higher CPU load depending on the computer hardware, but worth try if it's cheap.

 

HQPlayer really is not heavy, unless you engage some heavy processing.

 

 

[Miska]

I also hope the XLR direct to amp would sound 3 dimnesional instead of 2 dimensional or washed out. Cheers.

 

Using low capacitance cables such as Supra usually helps, especially if the cables are on the long side.

 

 

[pjomaestro]

Please tell me how to get Pure Music beta to play DSD.

 

Best

 

pjo

 

[yverof]

Hello,

What I did is just send a mail to "" [email protected] "", with the reference of my PM serial number (not sure if this was needed). They sent me a link.

Yves

 

[yverof]

Yes this is for PM 1.83d5 (while it worked with the previous beta). If you use the 'normal' last version, it will read and transcode dff files but it will not support the use of Mytek. So when you have both 'beta and non beta) on your computer make sure you call the beta if you want to use Mytek for DSD streaming.

 

Yves

 

[pjomaestro]

Thanks Yves !

 

pjo

 

[firedog]

and SPDIF?

 

Not everyone is interested in buying and converting SACDs.

 

Thanks

 

[pjomaestro]

Hi Yves,

Does this Pure Music beta work with Mytek firmware version 1.2.0 ?

 

[yverof]

Hello,

 

I have updated the PDF file so you can see what version of PM and what Firmware I have (1.2.1). Maybe this is what you have. I don't know about 1.2.0, my Mytek was delivered with 1.2.1.

 

Best Regards,

 

Yves

 

[ted_b]

a later one. And I believe 1.3.2 is due to be published on the site today or tmrw.

 

[ted_b]

I spent last night listening almost exclusively to redbook (PCM). It sounds great. To compare to my Antelope, the midrange is slightly cooler but the imaging is rock solid, less bloat or midbass hump, the bass is also tighter, and the highs are wonderfully crisp yet smooth and natural. Again, this describes redbook playback, not just DSD. Caveat: firewire only. My USB driver seems to act up (volume setting in PM and A+ is like -5db) and I've not tried AES or SPDIF.

 

[KarolG]

So far to listen to SACDs from music server one needed to convert DSD files to PCM. This is a lossy conversion and there are various factors to consider: sample rate, dithering method, non-clipping gain adjustments (to follow +6dB spec but not to clip), the software to use (Audiogate, Saracon, Foobar plugin), high frequency noise cut-off level, etc.

This is all not necessary for native DSD playback.

Many high-end gear owners claim the CD specs (16/44.1) are often enough to achieve audio nirvana. I believe this may be true if DAC is good enough (or does some interesting inside processing/conversion/enhancement to the signal).

 

I have a question for SACD ripping enthusiasts who use Mytek DAC. How do you compare the DSD-to-PCM converted tracks sound quality vs. CD (Redbook) layer rip of the same SACD? Is it worth all the trouble to convert DSD-to-PCM or just rip the CD layer using EAC and leave SACD layer to DSD domain?

I assume I will hold PCM files in my library for future use (eg. test another DAC).

 

[yverof]

As promised I'm putting here the comments I got from the ETF (see links below) participants last week in France. I'll put also my own comments.

 

I listened to Mytek on different systems, all of them being far above systems you can buy off the shelf. Mainly tube technology but also some transistor based amps and high efficiency speakers.

 

I have prepared 12 different tracks DSD and PCM (24/192 and 16/44.1).

 

First thing you immediately notice is the silence. I do not mean no noise, I mean the silence that is in the music.

 

Then comes transparency, bad recording sounds bad, good ones sound good. Nothing is added or taken from the music.

 

The most given comment is 'I have never heard so many details on this track'. Instruments separation is one of the great quality of Mytek.

 

Been able to listen on 6 different systems it was obvious that results are much better with balanced input. This was very clear when focussing on sound stage and image (with the same file played of course). The same goes for bass. Some of the other DACs showed more bass, so one can question this. Does the other DAC favor the bass and Mytek has neutrality or does Mytek lacks bass? Or is this the recording? This is the trap I have found we easily fall in : One use a recording that is used as a reference, but unless we are the artist and have done the mix and mastering, all we have is an idea of the way we think it should be by listening to it on 'the reference DAC'. Also the Mytek is just one link in the chain and sometimes it did not match very well with some of the amps.

 

I was happy to have the opportunity to have any different systems and many recordings and different people who have always their own opinion.

 

SPDIF results depend of the CD player you have feeding the Mytek. When the CD is good Mytek sounds excellent. When a CD track was ripped (using XLD and 16/44.1) and comparison between ripped track and CD, the CD was much better. This was obvious on dynamics. Mytek is just above what you would expect at this price if you only used spdif.

 

24/192 tracks play tremendously well. The fact that DSD files are played does not mean they are always better than PCM. Obviously the first link in the chain is the recording and we found that some DSD recordings were not top quality (conversion problem?) and that PCM could sound wonderful. The neutrality of the Mytek is a strong point.

 

Considering that Pure Music is a beta and that the driver/microcode are just released I'm confident that it will get better and better.

 

I personally use balanced output to 2 Bryston mono blocs 120 watts or unbalanced to Audio Research D115 or Lectron JV60 (Jean Hiraga design), then to VOT or Onken (passive filter).

 

Overall the conclusions are :

 

GOOD

 

Absolute silence

Sound stage

Details, instrument separation

Transparency

Balanced tone (no color of its own)

 

and price and flexibility

 

BAD

 

All my friends who come home want to take it with them.

The more I listen, the more I like it.

I do not have a remote.

 

You can see some of the equipment it was listened to here :

 

First link

http://www.audiohagel.dk/index/

go to

TRIODEFESTIVAL 2011 IN STELLA PLAGE FRANCE

 

Second link

http://www.jimtonic.net/daten/etf2011/

 

[Synfreak]

It's the mastering which in most important (first).

 

And in many cases, the CD layer is treated different as the SACD layer in terms of i.e. compression and/or overall loudness.

 

To me, it IS worth the "trouble" to get the DSD files off of my SACDs, even if "only" converted to 88,2/24 (or sometimes to 176,4/24) PCM.

 

The differences may be small, at least for most of the usual listeners out there - me included ... ;-) - but I'm trying to get the most/best out of my system, including the source material (and it surely is about the music, isn't it?).

Sometimes this could be a different CD mastering instead of a (crunched) SACD, DVD-A or even downloaded album.

 

I've listened mainly to PCM with my Mytek the last weeks (DSD playback was only tested to see if I should plan on storing DSD files later), and I find the performance very good.

 

Cheers

Harald

 

[ted_b]

and English is my FIRST (and only) language!!

 

The silence is something I have now taken for granted on the Mytek (especially with my new Hynes power supply on my Mac Mini) but failed to mention or highlight it. Thanks for reminding me. I think, frankly, it is the strongest feature, and from that silence comes all the other highlights (imaging, tight bass control, etc). Although it is not as warm as my Antelope, the fatigue factor is non-existent.

 

[ted_b]

I had done dozens of DSD-to-24/176k PCM transfers meticulously, taking into account all your to-do items (especially gain less than +6db in 99% of the cases). There was something I still didn't like about them (leading edge and decay sounded a bit digital), and then when I listened in DSD the transfer idea became moot. No comparison whatsoever. However, I have not tried to rip their redbook layer...in most cases the SACD layer is better mastered and/or mixed, and the hirez transfer is likley better, regardless.

 

Why do PCM transfers if you own a Mytek, though? I'd just let the on-the-fly software (PM, foobar, etc) do it for your DSD files if using or demoing other DACs.

 

[ted_b]

the trouble to do PCM transfers. Ripping SACD's for DSD files, yes of course (a bit biased there ). Then doing hard-coded (as opposed to on-the-fly) PCM transfers, not so much. PM's 24/88 on-the-fly is pretty darn good, and requires no addtional files storage, etc.

 

And yes, many SACD redbook layers are the original more-compressed, earlier masterings so comparisons are not fair anyway.

 

[KarolG]

Ted,

 

It is interesting you said on-the-fly DSD-PCM conversion is not all that bad. I assume you tested it with Pure Music. Software conversion takes a lot of time and resources (in many cases DST-DSD decompress first) but many SACD players do the "hidden" conversion on-the-fly.

I always wondered what is the "magic" in the software converters causing them to be so slow.

 

[Miska]

in many cases DST-DSD decompress first

 

DST is entirely different beast and shouldn't be mixed in the same bag. It is not very efficient to be implemented in software. Computer files should be all uncompressed DSD.

 

I always wondered what is the "magic" in the software converters causing them to be so slow.

 

Quality? Although not all software conversion algorithms are slow, or suffer in quality even when being fast. But still high quality conversion tends to generate some load. I think I have something like 20% CPU load from the realtime conversion.

 

 

[ted_b]

conversion is an obvious one (non-DST extraction from ISO's, for example, takes one tenth the time that DST does). And let me make one thing clear about my "on-the-fly" comments: this is purely for those Mytek owners who eventually will go DSD and want to hear PCM transfers to compare to. If you don't own a DSD DAC, then by all means do the transfer with kidd gloves.

 

Edit: oops, my bad. Miska's right, the DST conversion is already done before the DSD file is created. Doh! We're talking DSD files here, not ISO's. Most of the PCM conversions I've done (Audiogate or Saraon) were at least done in real time (i.e no slower than the song's actual time) so i guess decent on-the-fly could keep up. Again, I'm not saying on-the-fly is the preferred method, just the best option for those that have DSD DACs and wanna compare.

 

[Miska]

Again, I'm not saying on-the-fly is the preferred method, just the best option for those that have DSD DACs and wanna compare.

 

I still think it makes sense to use on-the-fly conversion, because then you are not fixed to a particular conversion parameters or target rate. With on-the-fly conversion you get easily all the algorithmic improvements new software versions bring without having to reconvert everything. And you can easily change your mind on what conversion parameters to use.

 

At least it is no worse way for listening DSD than all those devices that do the conversion internally when playing SACD.

 

Of course for those with DSD-capable DAC it is interesting way to compare.

 

[barrows]

DSD to PCM is not a lossy conversion. 24/176.4 PCM has more information than DSD, so the conversion is not lossy in any way.

Will it sound "different" almost certainly yes. But the reason is not because the conversion is lossy. There are so many variables it is impossible to know what might be responsible for the difference in sound, but I suspect the biggest culprit it the high level of noise in DSD. A DAC is going to sound different playing back DSD vs PCM, what SRC converter one uses, as well as how it used will make for differences, how the digital filters are applied during conversion will make a difference, etc.

Then there is the DAC, a DAC like the Mytek, despite popular belief to the contrary, does not really convert DSD to analog "natively". Mytek uses the ESS chip here, and it converts all incomimg formats in a multibit way (as I recall at 4-6 bits depending on settings). So the Mytek is converting single bit DSD first to a multi bit format, then converting to analog.