MQA vs HiRez: an apples-to-apples comparison - FINAL

[austinpop]

What genre of music is this? The last 2 were not genres I listen to. 

[austinpop]

@manisandher

 

Could you also post a Tidal (or Qobuz) link to the track? 

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

The track was Anouar Brahem - Blue Maqams - Opening Day (MQA on Tidal: https://tidal.com/track/79927158).

 

Mani.

 

Thanks Mani,

 

I never did get the chance to get the listening done on your samples, but I'll just listen sighted now, and see if I hear the same.

 

Oh, the confirmation bias!

[austinpop]

2 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

I think we can conclude that the truth between hires and MQA does indeed lie somewhere in the middle!

 

 

I have always felt that more important than the encoding (redbook, hi-res, MQA) was the actual care and effort taken on the (re)mastering. Case in point - the Steven Wilson Yes remixes. These sound equally good in CD and hi-res, and both better than the earlier masterings, also released in CD and hi-res.

 

I'd take the Wilson redbook version over the earlier hi-res version.

[austinpop]

13 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

Rajiv,

Let someone rename them for you, while taking notes of what was done. Then it is your turn to listen ...

After your writing out of what you think of it, all the A's B's and C's should be changed back accordingly.

 

Excellent suggestion.

 

I should have known it was Anouar Brahem, Mani!

[austinpop]

12 hours ago, PeterSt said:

 

Rajiv,

Let someone rename them for you, while taking notes of what was done. Then it is your turn to listen ...

After your writing out of what you think of it, all the A's B's and C's should be changed back accordingly.

 

Using this suggestion, I did some anonymized listening listening tonight. Once done, I mapped my impressions back to the original A-B-C.

 

I'll talk in terms of two snippets of the file:

1. From 0:00 to 0:20, when the guitar starts the piece off:
   • I found A to sound flatter, with the guitar not as dimensional. The plucks did not have the same texture and detail
   • B and C sounded very similar. Both sounded fuller than A, with more detail
2. From 1:10 to 1:30, when the cymbals kick in:
   • Again A seemed to lack a bit of detail
   • B was more detailed, where the fine details of the drumsticks striking the cymbals were more evident
   • C matched B in detail, and additionally seemed to be tonally calmer, and more natural sounding.

Based on this, I liked C best, then B, then A. Looking at Mani's reveal of what these are, I seem to have liked MQA > Hi-Res > CD. I will say that the differences in this case were all small. It was nothing like a component upgrade.

[austinpop]

3 hours ago, manisandher said:

That makes 3 of us.

 

Hmm,  I went back and listened, and still clearly like B better than A.

 

Guess we need to start listing our full chains to the DAC. And whether we used SW OS, or fed native sample rate to the DAC.

 

In my case, I was running:

• Zenith SE (Roon) > tX-USBultra (ref clocked by Ref-10) > Ayre QX-5 Twenty DAC 
• Native stream (24/96) sent to DAC

[austinpop]

@manisandher - I seem to have lost the plot here. 

 

Have you and Peter concluded that ALL hi-res content is flawed, and we should all just go back to Redbook and be happy? Or are you saying that only in the context of the 3 samples you've distributed? Or...

 

Confused, I am.

[austinpop]

6 hours ago, manisandher said:

I've spent the last couple of days listening to hires vs. redbook I have from the same master, and can only say that I'm generally totally fine with the sound of the redbook. But I'm using PeterSt's software player and DAC, which have been specifically designed to optimise redbook (though not at the expense of hires).

 

Hi Mani,

 

In 2 decades of buying hi-res music - mostly DSD from SACD, but also PCM from DVD-Audio, and more recently, downloads, I have yet to run into a case where the CD version - from the same master - sounded better than the hi-res. Certainly, there are many cases where there is no discernible improvement with hi-res over CD. That is why I find your conclusion so startling.

 

In recent times, I've been buying a lot of my hi-res albums from the BIS label on eclassical.com, as BIS is more transparent than other labels about the original recording format, and the version that eclassical sells matches the recording format. Most BIS recordings are recorded and sold (as hi-res) at either 24/44.1 or 24/96.

 

I rarely even download the 16/44.1 version of my purchases, but I went back and downloaded them for a couple of recent albums I've bought. I've been comparing, and I can provide you with the 16/44.1 and 24/96 versions of a couple of tracks where to my ears the hi-res is clearly better. If you want to give it a listen, I'd love to have you do so.

 

I'm happy to expose them here too, but you'd know the sample rates. I can hear the cries of "expectation bias" already. Let me know if there is interest.

[austinpop]

7 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

Rajiv, this is really my point.

 

Agreed, and we may just want to rest the matter here, and get back to enjoying the music!

 

7 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

Definitely interested. If you could PM with a link, that'd be great.

 

PM sent.

 

7 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

I know expectation bias is real, but I reckon it's massively over-rated in some situations. There have been many occasions where I've wanted something to sound great, but it just doesn't, so I don't use it.

 

Yes, me too.

 

[austinpop]

5 hours ago, manisandher said:

 

Just to be clear, I didn't choose these tracks - @austinpop suggested that I take a listen to them, which I did.

 

And I in turn will say that’s how the label BIS released them. The original recording was 24/96, and they sell that sample rate, as well as standard Redbook.

 

Mani, thanks for taking the time to listen. I don’t think there are any next steps. We hear what we hear!

[austinpop]

1 hour ago, manisandher said:

 

 

FWIW, I like the music in all 3 'apples-to-apples' threads ?.

 

Mani.

 

+1

 

Boring, it certainly was not.

 

Hmm, I have to analyze my recent tendency to talk in yoda-like sentences.