Fas42’s Stereo ‘Magic’

[Racerxnet]

8 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Why the effort to get a system in better shape is so valuable, is with something like this, https://www.discogs.com/Tadaaki-Otaka-Andrew-Davis-Sir-Henry-Wood-David-Atherton-2-Nobuko-Imai-Kathryn-Stott-Great-Proms-Pre/release/10499010. The 1942 recording from the Proms, Ireland's Epic March, on the NAD and Sharp combo just sounds quaint and 'historical' when the system is at a low ebb; the transformation into a meaningful, impactive musical event when it's firing is so far beyond the other presentation, it makes for an instant reward, going the extra rounds of optimising for that round of listening .

Frank,

 

Again, your statement never says anything about what you have accomplished because there is no documentation. You optimized WHAT exactly? Lets see some pics of your room and the system you optimized! Is your system in limbo at the moment?

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

20 minutes ago, semente said:

 

A good system will not sound loud even when it's playing loud.

Could it have been the distortion and not the loudness that scared him off?

 

Correct,

It's loud and you do not realize it. It's also very clean and dynamic.

[Racerxnet]

42 minutes ago, davide256 said:

Better to admit your current system has reached its limits and identify the next "weakest link" component to upgrade

 

What's he going to upgrade? The battery, hard drive, RAM! That's the end of the line for a laptop, and none of it is going to make any impact on a .750 inch speaker embedded in the chassis. If he sent the signal out to a DAC and other components, then maybe. He still needs to be bitperfect and use WASAPI, ASIO, or kernel streaming if the device driver supports it. He can set thread priority in Foobar2K to high. 

 

Anyhow, it's his hobby and it may bring joy. 

 

Cheers,

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

Show us your system Frank. Maybe we can state the obvious then.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

11 minutes ago, fas42 said:

because I'm going to DIY the removal of the weaknesses, which many others won't be inclined to do

 

Be specific in what you are doing, besides just talking about nothing in particular.

11 minutes ago, fas42 said:

that's the hard bit, and achieving it is tied up with the electronics, not the speaker.

 

 

Flex the speaker beyond its limitations and you now have DISTORTION. So the speakers really do play a major part in the reproduction.

 

Pics of the room and system will tell us exactly what you are working with. If you don't want to, then just say so. 

[Racerxnet]

9 minutes ago, fas42 said:

The sense of a powerful bass line comes not from super low notes, but from the clarity of everything else - I have never, ever come across a rig of someone else playing, say, pipe organ which ticked the boxes - always far too 'tiny', the sense of the massiveness of the instrument was missing

 

I think you are sadly mistaken. Down to 16hz and servo feedback.

[Racerxnet]

2 minutes ago, fas42 said:

What I found remarkable at first, and then I learnt this is pretty well standard, is that speakers can be driven HARD, and love it. If you hear distortion, this is the amplifier losing the plot - 99% of the time.

 

Hook your laptop speakers up to my 2 7BSST amps and lets see how glorious they sound. Not going to happen because they do not have any capacity to sound better than a close and play. I'll distort them just before they melt down.

[Racerxnet]

8 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Okay, tell me what you feel could be improved in how your system sounds; where it's "not perfect" - you see, that's how I operate ... 😉.

 

Frank, nothing is perfect. Not even my system. I am going to build a Twisted Pear Buffalo 3 Pro DAC. Not because what I have is bad, but because technology moves on and I want to try different formats in the replay chain. My chain is considerably different and I am confident that the chain can easily distinguish differences should there be any. I work from a completely different palette than you, but don't make such bold claims with low end disposable laptops.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

A key factor in getting best sound is making sure that high current draws don't cause problems - headphones don't have this element at anywhere near the same level as for speakers. Also, it's quite straightforward to create an extremely simple rig for driving headphones - this all helps.

Whats the impedance of the speakers one is driving. Whats the reserve the amplifier can output. Are you supplying the amp with enough current from the mains fuse panel? The Kappa 9's were amp killers. In other words, If the parts are chosen according to the requirements of the combined rig, you have minimized any of the stated deficiencies you claim to know about. Primary of course is; CAN YOU AFFORD TO DO THIS.

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

N.'s primary rig has the speakers literally bolted to the end wall; the secondary rig has them on stands literally in the middle of the den, with all sorts of mess behind them - I'm sure some will say that this is heresy behaviour; but it hasn't been relevant to getting good SQ

 

As Sandy stated, you will never get optimum reproduction in a room with bass nodes or resonance/reflections from walls etc by haphazardly putting the speakers in a random placement. Your above statement is testament to you not knowing how to set up a high end rig at all. Frank, you really say and show absolutely nothing that supports your position. You will never move forward with all you state because the laptop never requires more than a arm to carry it around. It does not INTERACT with the room its placed in. Your blowing to much hot air.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

25 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Tell me, how does the bass of say, a typical Boney M. track come across, to you? There's a quality there which is quite special - do you know what I mean?

 

LOL, Your laptop bass is dismal. Seriously, are you delusional? 

 

28 minutes ago, fas42 said:

That's the simplistic take on such matters

 

A laptop is as simplistic as it gets. There is nothing you are doing that’s going to make a silk purse out of a sows ear. It’s $hit in and $hit out in your particular case. As I have invited you over to actually listen to a really well balance set-up, lets compare the MAGIC each will deliver. I’ll bet it won”t stand up to my wet jockstrap.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

P.S. I have the Boneyism CD and several other bass heavy tracks if that’s the artist you are referring to.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

By the way, you don’t appear to have a system with speakers to tune! If so, lets see the system you have. Or is it more baloney and backpedaling?

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

9 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

... while you keep going on about a laptop you're going to get nowhere, 🙄 ... you see, I can remember what systems that I've worked with that used reasonable speakers sound like - and that's what I'm referring to

 

Frank, I’ve worked on enough systems to know better than what you are stating. You are getting nothing on your laptop. Again, where is your system to tune?? What reasonable speakers? Pictures of them please! You probably don’t have one (system) or the morals to be honest about what you are working with.  I’d suggest that Chris closes this thread. There is nothing but wasted space.

 

MAK

 

By the way, I never use youtube in a serious listening session. 

[Racerxnet]

11 hours ago, sandyk said:

Although I often disagree with Frank, I do find some of his posts of interest.

 

Repetitive Obfuscation from Frank and the dissimilarities of the playback mechanism/chain that most of us have, gives us reason to call out the foolishness. 

[Racerxnet]

Again Frank, you say jackshit on what is going to make our system better. As a matter of fact, you don't have a system to work with. While you are at it, why not stop trying to degrade people who can afford the better equiptment.

 

You're  right to a lot of people; you are zero use to us. 

 

MAK. 

 

 

[Racerxnet]

52 minutes ago, 4est said:

Why would he care about the room? I am sure the speakers in that laptop barely excite the room in any way.

That's correct, a laptop cannot excite the room. And so there is no room interaction. Just as well, the people who do have a set of book shelf to floor standers, do have to consider the room. So who is right and who is wrong? The same shoe does not fit every foot! The frequency response of the laptop cannot produce the bandwidth of the material from the file, so important information is not being relayed to the listener. That's OK for many, but so many issues surrounding the "magic" from a laptop are present, that the believable expression/reason given is laughable. 

 

1 hour ago, 4est said:

  On 12/11/2019 at 7:05 AM, Confused said:

OK - You had done a big fat zero with the room, this much is very clear.  Which begs the question, what did you do just before the convincing SQ snapped out of nothingness?  I am genuinely intrigued to know.

 

Frank does not believe the room is important in his use case. Nor does he care to consider it a part of the experience during a listening session. Though I remember many distinct room interactions. Walking in the Subway downtown in Chicago and hearing a Sax player. The echo, reverberation, the stark contrast to what I hear at Rosemont theater. Those are 2 situations of room interaction. 

 

 

[Racerxnet]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

With that first system, the last thing I was really working hard on was making sure that at every point where the connection in the path was of low quality - that is, the usual plug and sockets, and switches thing - that this was improved.

 

So we have connection points being soldered, and switches being bypassed. There are 2. But, I have to ask if recent gains in technology have relegated your process moot at this time? Are the Neutrik connections (balanced) with gold plated pins inferior to soldered joints? How about gold plated RCA connectors (unbalanced)?

 

" Connectors are a critical part of any audio cable, because if the cable isn't well-joined to the connectors, or if the connectors don't make firm electrical contact with the jacks, it doesn't much matter how good the cable is. Our LC-1 cables are terminated with the Taversoe RCA plug, a high-quality RCA plug with an all-metal body and shell specifically designed for the perfect dimensions for use with LC-1. Its all-metal body, crimped tightly to the shield braid, completes the shielding assembly from cable end to cable end, to ensure that the cables do not become an entry point for noise. These plugs are gold-plated on all jack-contact surfaces, and employ a set of leaf-spring style grippers on the outer RCA ring which apply just the right amount of force to the jack to grip it firmly without overtightening."

 

You can say "Ah hah", the statement above proves my point. And I can say, they have addressed this through better engineering!

 

Do they solder all connections in the recording studio, or are they using balanced connections where needed. And if that solid engineering mitigated the problems, is it well suited for playback and the audiophile?

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

Can we let the laptop thing go ... please?

 

 

Yes I can, I understand that you enjoy this hobby as much as everyone else. 

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

5 minutes ago, fas42 said:

why do you think there are so many crazy tweaks and 'snake oil' products out there, trying to alleviate these deficiencies, 😜.

 

Because a fool and his money part easily.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

6 minutes ago, fas42 said:

Noting that @kumakuma just disagreed with me, and that's completely understandable - in life there are many things that "just don't make sense" unless one has personally experienced it; and probably the key element is that it happens over and over, and is completely consistent, year after year - a "you can rely on it!" type of thing

 

A oncer just doesn't cut it - a single exposure to a 'magic' system that ticks all the boxes doesn't carry enough weight so that one's thinking about things actually changes.

 

Frank,

 

Do you really think in your mind that nobody has experienced high end reproduction just because you say so? Every rig is sub-par if it is assembled as separate components, cost a pretty penny, the room is treated, etc.. Is that how you judge peoples capabilities and systems without even have listened to it? It really smacks of ignorance on your part.

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

I'm talking about a specific level of SQ which, say, renders the speaker completely invisible, under all circumstances - from personal experience, and from the postings and blogging of other people, it is clear that this occurs extremely rarely - but there is no significant reason why this should be so unusual.

 

A rig is sub-par because not enough is done to eliminate all the remaining weaknesses - being separate components allows more weaknesses to affect SQ, in many situations - if this is not dealt with, then the potential of the gear is never fully realised ... I have listened to 100's of systems made up of high end components, over decades, and the same audible flaws occur, over and over again.

Do you think your current laptop speakers are invisible, effortless, and fullfill the requirments as others may see it? Highly doubtfull. So I believe you are not achieving this magic under your current playback conditions. 

 

My hunch is that you are jaded by a cost factor which you cannot afford; and it becomes necessary to belittle the high end equipment we purchase. It sure would be nice to hear of any acquaintances who may be able to verify your system as a reference point. After all, you have heard 100s of components which do not cut the mustard. Someome surely knows of Frank and his magic and can vouch for it. 

 

On another thought,  if you have this knack for achieving nervona, why not start a business based on the very thing you love and enjoy. Surely you have followers who will pay handsomely for this elusive achievement. You may make a good livimg from it. 

 

MAK

 

[Racerxnet]

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

I don't need to hear 'brilliant' SQ all the time, to know what it's like ... I had a superb bottle of red wine 35 years ago - again that magic number, 😉 - and that defined what was possible from red wine.- I've consumed massive amounts in between, and only one bottle, about 5 years ago, cut it; all the ingredients that made it a magical experience were there, and were obvious from the first taste ... all the other stuff, from cheap no-name, everyday quaffing, to pretentiously expensive ones at wine tastings I happened upon, were nowhere in the race ... but I don't have an issue with this - all I need to know is that if I go to enough trouble I can acquire another bottle of red, which will replicate that high ...

 

I drank many Whites 40 years ago and hit the majic taste! I've consumed gallons since then and can pinpoint the best. I know I can purchase another BEST of white if I look hard enough. You see I GET TO BE THE JUDGE, JURY and EXECUTIONER of all said on the matter. (Sarcasm)

 

You see Frank, some like Red's, other Whites, and maybe bubbly too. Different strokes, for different folks. Just like others think Magic comes in a different flavor than yours. You never do seem to grasp that your opinion is just that, yours only.

 

52 minutes ago, fas42 said:

might mention here, a favourite recording of ours ... Jarre's Zoolook - a little exercise ... put it on, at a concert level volume ... what buttons does it push, 🙂?

 

How are you getting concert levels to asses the recording? With what?  Well Frank be truthful.

 

1 hour ago, fas42 said:

You realise I'm talking 35 years here, of taking this seriously - one can easily come across, say 10 systems not your own which are "trying to sound good" in a single year; where you linger or listen long enough to assess the SQ.

 

Again, have you heard his system or are you being a pompous azzhole. Answer if you have heard it so we can see how foolish your statement looks. See paragraph above for reference. Does my 45 years of this make me an expert?

 

There are stark contrasts in my system from one song to another. Some very dry(Jethro Tull) to mega bass such as in Madonna's Vogue. Each unique. It ticks all the boxes and then some. If my foots a tappin the house is rockin. Come to the states and you can hear a superb Genesis system in action. Always looking to improve like everyone else, and the Bass Servo cables I made are an excellent upgrade. I hope you are feeling better soon.

 

MAK

 

 

[Racerxnet]

20 minutes ago, fas42 said:

I'm sure your system does an excellent job, for your listening interests ... different strokes, 🙂

 

Seems to tick the boxes with many from here.

 

http://www.chicagoaudio.org/

 

MAK

[Racerxnet]

11 hours ago, gmgraves said:

No, I don’t “grok” it. You’re right, because I don’t believe you. I know what’s possible and what isn’t, Frank, and you’re insistence that you have achieved, sonically, what no one else has been able to achieve, is simply nonsense. But I do think that you actually believe you’ve attained the holy grail of audio. I don’t think that you are lying, just self deluded.

 

Frank is a legend in his own mind.....

[Racerxnet]

9 minutes ago, fas42 said:

You see, George, the things I fiddle with are the problem areas that drag the $100,000 component down to reproducing $100 SQ - but you can't seem to compute this.

 

Frank,

 

You don't have the option to fiddle with $100,000 stuff, you don't own any of what you speak of. So how do you justify what you write on this site?? There is nobody who would allow you to hack at their system based on soldering wires, eliminating switches, interconnects and many other dubious suggestions. In other words, your hands have not touched anything of the value you continually slam.

 

38 minutes ago, fas42 said:

A properly done all-in-one would be the smartest way to go. And of course we now have a couple of well executed active speakers on the market showing how it can be done - these are currently the best raw ingredients for achieving optimum sound, for those who don't want to do the DIY thing.

 

Can you think of any non-integrated speakers that sound good?? Non-integrated Amp or Pre-Amp? DAC?

It is silly to lump one aspect better than the other. When done well, either can produce excellent results. The journey to mix and match is part of the fun. Some like tubes, some SS.

 

27 minutes ago, fas42 said:

You see, George, the things I fiddle with are the problem areas that drag the $100,000 component down to reproducing $100 SQ - but you can't seem to compute this.

 

Starting with $100.00 dollar boomboxes/laptops is not going to make a silk purse from a sows ass. Can you gather with someone from this site to asses your capabilities on the items you posses? Maybe they can write about your achievements to confirm the existence of your Magic? Or, have TripleXXX up the road join this site and convey what he thinks of your position and the impact it has had on their system.

 

Just some thoughts Frank.

[Racerxnet]

5 minutes ago, fas42 said:

 

Ummm, the link in the chain which is weakest will determine the 'strength' - if I go to the back of a million dollar system, and damage a single connector so that it makes poor contact, will it still sound like a million dollar system?

 

I have found that if I want the SQ that I talk of, and I don't concern myself with the parts that "barely matter at all", then I'm guaranteed never to succeed ... hence my approach.

 

If there is good connections on the components, does that turn it around and make its worth $1,000,000, or do you continue to say it's not worth it and argue another pointless point? 

 

What sound quality are you talking about that may correlate with your current component(s)? Should we believe that the Sharp surpassed the majority of systems out there??

 

Curious minds want to know!