My best demo albums

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

Two things normally got wrong for cheap speakers: they're driven by cheap amps, and they're plunked down on a convenient surface, with no effort made to stabilise them. Take care of those two areas, and the sound can start to blossom ...

Blossom, Shlossom! Genrally speaking, one can't make a purse from a sow's ear, and one can't get high-class sound from cheap speakers by driving them with Pass amplifiers and blu-tacking them to stands!

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

You still can't get that I have listened to large numbers of systems with mega speakers - to make sure that I had good reference points - and the number that had any postive impact on me can be counted on the fingers of one hand ... usually the first test track told me the story, and I lost interest in hearing further. A rig has to be able to present a soundstage as big as what was recorded, and nearly everything fails on that alone.

Frank, I believe that you have listened to all kinds of systems. And I agree that just plunking down the change for a big system doesn't insure great sound. Some actual thought has to be put into choosing compatible products. For example, one shouldn't pair a phono cartridge with sharply rising top end with speakers that have an over abundance of treble. I don't car ho much such a system costs , it's not going to sound right. Conversely, a component with weak bass is not going to sound satisfying on the bottom bo matter how good the sub-woofer is. 

I also think that you have an idea in your mind what constitutes good sound and if a system doesn't sound like you want it to, you won't like it.

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

Speakers only need to be big for the bass driver to produce a decent FR, that's the only reason.

Of course, but don't forget that the bottom end is a large part of the reason we listen to music. It is not unimportant. I have heard systems with good "stand' type speakers like this made by Magico, Sonus Faber, Dynaudio and KEF, etc. and yes, they do many things well - above 60 Hz! But to be real high-end contenders they need subwoofers, and not just ONE either. They need two. The days when all the bass was in the left channel of LP are gone. Digital can have bass in both channels.

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, jabbr said:

 

Have you been to a nightclub recently? Because if you really have then you earn real streetcred points ?

But no, if your eardrums would've been destroyed in a matter of minutes then you couldn't have spent any time in a real nightclub?

 

Jus' sayin' because I do believe @gmgraves has actually been to all the places he claims to have been -- which is why he is still an avowed bachelor ... ? ... no, scratch that because in my experience young women congregate wherever music is playing ... ?

Fat lot of good that will do you unless you are a handsome, buff young man. Me, I'm none of those things...

[fas42]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

 

Have you been to a nightclub recently? Because if you really have then you earn real streetcred points ?

 

 

Sprung!!! .. Nope, not in eons - I was going to say hotel or pub, but I wasn't sure if all people could relate to that; I was thinking of a tiny hotel visited a year of two ago, tiny Tannoy sized speakers pumping out a volume which meant you had to scream into the ear of the person next to you to have any chance of them hearing you ...

 

 

[fas42]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

Frank, no connections SHOULD be exposed to the atmosphere. RCAs should be gas tight. The pin should fight tightly to the inside of the jack, and the shield should fight tightly over the barrel of the jack. Spade-lugs should be screwed down tight on both the amp and the speaker terminals. If you are paranoid about such things, you should probably apply Stabilant 22A to all of your connector interfaces.

 

 

As I've mentioned several times, I tried that route decades ago - and, it doesn't work; in the sense of maintaining the integrity to a high enough level over a longer term. The only proven solutions, for me, is soldering, and using a silver paste or paint treatment, the latter done extremely carefully. And I always do this first thing - I made sure the current NAD setup worked when I first got it, by plugging it together as one normally would, but it sounded pretty hideous - right! Get in there and sort out those connections ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

Blossom, Shlossom! Genrally speaking, one can't make a purse from a sow's ear, and one can't get high-class sound from cheap speakers by driving them with Pass amplifiers and blu-tacking them to stands!

 

Ummm, you can ... that's exactly what I did with my first rig, the one that "showed me the way".

 

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

Frank, I believe that you have listened to all kinds of systems. And I agree that just plunking down the change for a big system doesn't insure great sound. Some actual thought has to be put into choosing compatible products. For example, one shouldn't pair a phono cartridge with sharply rising top end with speakers that have an over abundance of treble. I don't car ho much such a system costs , it's not going to sound right. Conversely, a component with weak bass is not going to sound satisfying on the bottom bo matter how good the sub-woofer is. 

I also think that you have an idea in your mind what constitutes good sound and if a system doesn't sound like you want it to, you won't like it.

Of course, but don't forget that the bottom end is a large part of the reason we listen to music. It is not unimportant. I have heard systems with good "stand' type speakers like this made by Magico, Sonus Faber, Dynaudio and KEF, etc. and yes, they do many things well - above 60 Hz! But to be real high-end contenders they need subwoofers, and not just ONE either. They need two. The days when all the bass was in the left channel of LP are gone. Digital can have bass in both channels.

 

Bass, as most audiophiles look at it, is not that important - one thing that strikes me with most audiophile rigs is how poorly they do the bass line - irritatingly non-realistic is how they usually come across. I put a full bore pipe organ spectacular on, and they fall way below a decent standard - the only systems I've heard get it adequately right have been my own ...

[fas42]

1 hour ago, gmgraves said:

Could that have not have been the recording? I own the set of Franky's capitol years, and some of them are pretty thin sounding. One has to keep in mind that the recording tape used in those days (Scotch 206, and the Ampex equivalent) was pretty primitive and a lot of recordings made in those days haven't survived the years very well! 

 

 

 

 

Would make sense if I hadn't heard that particular CD sounding as good as it had done on my setups! Those classic Sinatra efforts are very, very impressive - good show off material for a well sorted rig.

[gmgraves]

4 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

As I've mentioned several times, I tried that route decades ago - and, it doesn't work; in the sense of maintaining the integrity to a high enough level over a longer term. The only proven solutions, for me, is soldering, and using a silver paste or paint treatment, the latter done extremely carefully. And I always do this first thing - I made sure the current NAD setup worked when I first got it, by plugging it together as one normally would, but it sounded pretty hideous - right! Get in there and sort out those connections ...

I'm sorry Frank, I just don't believe it. I could see it maybe making a teeny-tiny difference, but basically a tertiary effect, not the game changer you make it out to be. I have found that most of the "earth-shattering" tweaks that most audiophiles rave about are wildly over exaggerated and the real effect is usually barely discernible (if it's there at all). 

[gmgraves]

4 hours ago, fas42 said:

Bass, as most audiophiles look at it, is not that important

Speak for yourself!

[gmgraves]

3 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

Would make sense if I hadn't heard that particular CD sounding as good as it had done on my setups! Those classic Sinatra efforts are very, very impressive - good show off material for a well sorted rig.

Well, I have all of them on LP as well as on CD, and while I like to hear Sinatra sing, I'm not impressed with Capitol Records early stereo pop efforts at all. You and I must have wildly different standards for what constitutes good program material. I know that you like the kind of pop material that I would warp into plant holders (LP) or make a hanging mobile out of (CD) but would never listen to.

[fas42]

20 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I'm sorry Frank, I just don't believe it. I could see it maybe making a teeny-tiny difference, but basically a tertiary effect, not the game changer you make it out to be. I have found that most of the "earth-shattering" tweaks that most audiophiles rave about are wildly over exaggerated and the real effect is usually barely discernible (if it's there at all). 

 

Still trying to get through ... the job of the chain is to sustain a 100 lbs pull, without failing - if a single link is only at the 95 lbs strength level, then the chain will simply not do its job. Just think of it like this - a good connection "adds" another 5 lbs of strength to that link - Bingo!! Success!!!

 

Each thing on its own is "tiny", but if not right does enough damage - you lose the quality you're chasing ...

 

I live in the world where a rig has something like 90 to 100 lbs "pulling" capacity - and I work on what is holding it back from reaching the 100 mark, solidly. It might seem a bit bizarre that it is so essential to reach a very specific standard - but that's just the way it is ... I have spent decades looking at this, and I haven't found any shortcuts.

[fas42]

20 hours ago, gmgraves said:

Well, I have all of them on LP as well as on CD, and while I like to hear Sinatra sing, I'm not impressed with Capitol Records early stereo pop efforts at all. You and I must have wildly different standards for what constitutes good program material. I know that you like the kind of pop material that I would warp into plant holders (LP) or make a hanging mobile out of (CD) but would never listen to.

 

What I'm after is the Big Experience - everything else vanishes but the energy and drive of the music being created. And pop music can do this just as well as classic - I've mentioned before that I cycle between totally different genres, from one listen to the next; each has its own "specialness", but all convey convey the magic of what music is about ...

[gmgraves]

18 hours ago, fas42 said:

Still trying to get through ... the job of the chain is to sustain a 100 lbs pull, without failing - if a single link is only at the 95 lbs strength level, then the chain will simply not do its job. Just think of it like this - a good connection "adds" another 5 lbs of strength to that link - Bingo!! Success!!!

You can't get through, Frank, 

because you never say anything. You talk constantly in vague circular generalities. As STC said in another thread, you've produced no pictures of your setup, no specifications and no third party verification of how magnificent your system sounds.

Good connections is nonsense again. Decent RCAs give excellent connections. One just has to make sure that they are good and tight tight. 

 

18 hours ago, fas42 said:

Each thing on its own is "tiny", but if not right does enough damage - you lose the quality you're chasing ...

And the sum of all of these things is pretty small too. Like I said, a tertiary effect at best. Except for the idiocy of soldering one's components together (I hope you are using silver solder. Hate to think that tin and lead is making that chain of yours weak) I'll bet that every audiophile on this forum has done the same things you have done. After all, there's only so much one can do. 

 

18 hours ago, fas42 said:

I live in the world where a rig has something like 90 to 100 lbs "pulling" capacity - and I work on what is holding it back from reaching the 100 mark, solidly. It might seem a bit bizarre that it is so essential to reach a very specific standard - but that's just the way it is ... I have spent decades looking at this, and I haven't found any shortcuts.

You live in a world where it's all in your head, Frank, I'm sure that you think that your conjuring and voodoo have resulted in a system that is second to none.

[fas42]

14 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 Except for the idiocy of soldering one's components together (I hope you are using silver solder. Hate to think that tin and lead is making that chain of yours weak) I'll bet that every audiophile on this forum has done the same things you have done. After all, there's only so much one can do. 

 

The point of soldering is to make the joint truly gastight. I can get the same qualities that the soldered joints provide simply by refreshing the contacts - but this is very short term. Contact enhancers nominally do the same thing, but they deteriorate in a different manner - still not a long term solution.

 

14 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

 

You live in a world where it's all in your head, Frank, I'm sure that you think that your conjuring and voodoo have resulted in a system that is second to none.

 

George, you've just told me how good a playback system can sound, - the ol' Stubblepine thing. All you have to do is transfer that quality back to your home situation ...

[gmgraves]

2 hours ago, fas42 said:

George, you've just told me how good a playback system can sound, - the ol' Stubblepine thing. All you have to do is transfer that quality back to your home situation ...

This is what you don't seem to understand. I ALREADY HAVE!!!!!!!

[fas42]

7 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

This is what you don't seem to understand. I ALREADY HAVE!!!!!!!

 

If you have, why can't you listen to any type of album and enjoy them as a musical experience - in the same way as if you were present with the musicians, and not heard via a PA system?

[gmgraves]

21 hours ago, fas42 said:

 

If you have, why can't you listen to any type of album and enjoy them as a musical experience - in the same way as if you were present with the musicians, and not heard via a PA system?

I can't enjoy any type of album as a musical experience, because for me, the music is coming from speakers and headphones, and not swirling around inside my head! And a poor recording is simply not enjoyable! 

 

I never hear any music via a PA System because I walk-out if I see PA speakers anywhere near the musicians. If the speakers are hidden, and I see microphones (other than my own) I ask the management what is their purpose, if management says for broadcast of for recordings, OK, but if they say it's for sound reinforcement, I ask for my money back, if any, and I walk out. I usually tell the manager that if i wanted to listen to music from speakers, I could just stay home! I don't know where you get the idea that I hear musicians through a PA system???!!! 

[fas42]

9 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I can't enjoy any type of album as a musical experience, because for me, the music is coming from speakers and headphones, and not swirling around inside my head! And a poor recording is simply not enjoyable! 

 

Well, I'm sure it doesn't happen for everyone. but for me the music is "swirling around" the room - if the rig is up to scratch. That is, the experience matches the sensations, the way my mind and body feels when I hear live music - a lesser presentation drops back to conventional speakers doing their thing at two points in the room. If you get it really sorted, even those "poor recording"s come good - the overwhelming sense of there being living, breathing people behind what you hear is that which is uppermost.

 

9 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I never hear any music via a PA System because I walk-out if I see PA speakers anywhere near the musicians. If the speakers are hidden, and I see microphones (other than my own) I ask the management what is their purpose, if management says for broadcast of for recordings, OK, but if they say it's for sound reinforcement, I ask for my money back, if any, and I walk out. I usually tell the manager that if i wanted to listen to music from speakers, I could just stay home! I don't know where you get the idea that I hear musicians through a PA system???!!! 

 

Didn't mean to imply you did - some people jump on me when I don't put that in; so it's just there to clarify the story.

[beerandmusic]

no thread about female vocalists without these 2

 

 

 

 

 

[Hugo9000]

Hmm, per the OP, 3 recordings with great music and sound to show off a system:

 

 

 

 

I couldn't imagine living without these recordings.

[sandyk]

12 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

no thread about female vocalists without these 2

 

 

 

 

 

 

Agreed.

 But try to listen to them properly, not via low bitrate .aac Audio (max.187Kilobits, or as low as 64 Kilobits ) from YouTube and Vevo.

Their video quality is usually fine, but they don't want people to stop buying the recordings and just save their videos, so they deliberately restrict the quality of the audio side of the videos.

[beerandmusic]

16 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Agreed.

 But try to listen to them properly, not via low bitrate .aac Audio (max.187Kilobits, or as low as 64 Kilobits ) from YouTube and Vevo.

Their video quality is usually fine, but they don't want people to stop buying the recordings and just save their videos, so they deliberately restrict the quality of the audio side of the videos.

yes, sacd or dsd where possible always.... (wink).