16 bit files almost unlistenable now...

[Sal1950]

28 minutes ago, Jud said:

Nope, purely a subjective impression (in case "I've *heard*" rather than "I've measured" didn't make that clear). 

Would you bet the farm you could identifly it in a bias controlled blind listening test over say a Benchmark?

[Sal1950]

7 hours ago, Jud said:

First, no.  I make no claim to golden ears, and this was simply a subjective impression that could easily be wrong.  Everyone's free to take that subjective impression for what they think it's worth.

That's the part I don't get then.  Why post you hear something when you readily admit it could all be a delusion.

If I posted here I could fly like Superman, then you'd rightfully expect proof. And I'd be embarrassed that I was not able to supply it.

[Sal1950]

5 hours ago, Jud said:

 

Because that's what folks do when they chat about their taste in something.  If we were talking about wine and you said you preferred a particular one, I wouldn't demand a blind panel test or chemical analysis unless I wanted to be obnoxious about it.  Or if you said you liked a particular bike because it handled well on curves, again I wouldn't demand road test measurements or specs.  I'd listen to you and if we'd liked similar wines or bikes in the past, I might check out your recommendations.

There's no absolute with wine, there is with HiFi, transparency to the source. That's why we call it High Fidelity.

And bikes, like cars, are measured for all their performance.attributes. If you said you were better at 0-60, or 60-0, or skidpad, etc, all these things can and are measured against each other to determine which one is best. If you claimed yours out performed X you for sure you would be asked for the evidence. You don't get away with this kind of unsupported talk in any motorsport.

[Sal1950]

2 hours ago, Teresa said:

 

You do realize that flying is one of the most common of dreams. Most of us have flown in our sleep, no need to prove it. Now if one can fly when awake that's a different story. The simple act of flying would prove it. If you can fly when awake but can't fly in front of other people you have a real problem.

That's exactly like so many subjective listening "impressions" posted here.  Either they happened in a dream or are just totally imaginary.

[Sal1950]

16 hours ago, Jud said:

 

You must be a riot at the local tavern. 

 

"Best bike I've ever owned!"

 

"I'll need the skidpad figures to back that up."

Nope, you still don't get it. Since 1867 the bottom line has been,

"meet me at the racetrack and SHOW ME what you got" 

[Sal1950]

41 minutes ago, semente said:

I do find it somewhat sad that the American culture, and one of low artistic and ethic level, has been infecting the whole world but that is the subject of another thread. MTV India? Why? (and MacDonalds, and Pizza Hut, and KFC) Leveling the youth of the world by the least common denominator... It's so sad to travel to the furthest hills in Morroco or deep in the jungles in Vietnam and see kids wearing ugly bright-coloured tennis, low-rise pants with their knickers showing and Ronaldo haircut... And listening to a version of ghetto music in their language.

I might have to point out that a lot of this musical "movement" started in the UK. Beyond that it's just as sad to see that this type of "low artistic and ethic level" has infected the US culture. It's so foreign to myself and most other mature US citizens that we find it vulgar in the extreme.

[Sal1950]

2 hours ago, jabbr said:

U.K. what?

It was known as "The British Invasion" that basically started with the Beatles, then came Stone, Animals, the psychedelic sound, etc etc. It totally changed the sound of pop music in US pushing Do-Wap and Spector type sound totally off the charts. To the disdain of many of us here after which we turned to Motown and learned about the blues in the process.

 

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• Report post
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Posted 2 hours ago

 

“low artistic and ethic (sic) level” ..

That was a cut and paste from another post which I already stated. I'm sure it was a typo for ethnic but I can't speak positively for someone else. Sorry I didn't catch it before.

[Sal1950]

17 hours ago, gmgraves said:

I'm getting so much crap about an off-hand comment from you "rockers" here, that I have to wonder if you guys aren't protesting a little  too much? 

George George, whatever are we to do with you.

So much music and so little time, I don't understand you constant tirade against popular music that's been going on for years here. I don't understand how you can listen to the same 200 year old songs being performed over and over by a 1,000 different artists, but if that's your choice, enjoy.

But you really do need to get over yourself and your preferences as the last word in music.

 

[Sal1950]

15 minutes ago, jabbr said:

Musical genres flow from one to the other, but make no mistake, "The British Invasion" was black boy blues which hadn't gotten a following in the USA until english white boys started playing it.

Yeh OK,  screeming She Love You Ya Ya Ya and We All Live In A Yellow Submarine is blues based. Yuck

[Sal1950]

Lets get back to the discussion of being able to hear the difference between a 16 bit file and a 24 bit file, all else being equal. I love to hear these imaginary stories of hearing above and beyond human capabilities.  ?

[Sal1950]

6 hours ago, Jud said:

 

I am saying it shows people can be trained to recognize deviations from flat FR through the audible range, but not necessarily that this is something essential to an illusion of reality for the vast majority of untrained listeners.

 

By "illusion of reality" I mean elementary and fundamental aspects of reproduction of the real such as ability to tell what instrument is playing and where it is located.

You do speak of "training" as something to be avoided in a listening test. Yes people can be trained to listen for a specific aspect like FR but in the big picture how does this make that a negative? Harman did testing with both for a number of reasons, one being attempting to find out what aspects were important to listeners from a preference point of view. A marketing investigation as well as a scientific one.

In the big picture FR is but one aspect of a speakers (or any components) accuracy with other things of maybe equal importance. Things that all account for that "illusion of reality"  you mentioned. But if we were to run some DBT's on any 2 pieces of hardware to test for heard differences, say DAC's just for one, the tests would be somewhat crippled if the participants had no history in Hi Fi.

We would want listeners who have some listening experience and maybe having some training such as the Harman course if you wanted to extract the greatest value from the tests in the shortest possible time.

[Sal1950]

3 hours ago, Richard Dale said:

Are 'subjectivists' one of these so called sub-species then?

You can't handle the truth.  LOL

[Sal1950]

34 minutes ago, gmgraves said:

US Liberals are generally in favor of of restricted freedoms ("for the common good"). And the restricted freedoms one finds in a police state are right-up the lefty's street and we all know that police-state tactics are something that Germans seem like. 

Yes, being Liberal in the US today means a push towards a Socialist form of government is the plain and simple. Much of it in direct opposition to our constitution.. 

 

[Sal1950]

3 minutes ago, lucretius said:

 

But then, of course, the US has it's own definition of "socialism", LOL!

USSR, Communist China, Nazi Germany.

Socialism is easy to define.

[Sal1950]

3 minutes ago, kumakuma said:

 

Only if you rely on Fox News as your primary source of education.

 

None of those countries had socialist governments. Communism is not the same as socialism and the Nazis were not socialists despite the official name of their party.

 

 

Funny, that is how many others describe them including the countries fathers.

"The Soviet Union, officially the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics, was a socialist federation in Eurasia that existed from 1922 to 1991. Nominally a union of multiple national Soviet republics, its government and economy were highly centralized. Wikipedia"

[Sal1950]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

Any country with a qualifier in its name isn't that thing. A prime example is the Democratic People's Republic of Korea. It is not democratic, definitely not the people's, and no longer even a republic.

Kind of like today's US Democratic party.

[Sal1950]

23 hours ago, firedog said:

Sal, I hate to burst your bubble, but there is zero contradiction between a democrat and "socialist".

There, I fixed it for you.

[Sal1950]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

Tell me, George, where do you get your news? Fox? Breitbart? InfoWars?

If he is, he's making a better choice than listening to disgraceful garbage propaganda being spread as news by NBC and the rest. You'd think we were living in China for the lies and bias spread by the liberal news organizations.

 

[Sal1950]

3 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

Do you figure human-caused global warming is part of that? 

There's more than 1 reason for global warming, no one seems to have a handle on a fully encompassing truth.

 

[Sal1950]

3 minutes ago, wgscott said:

 

So Infowars conspiracy theories like the idea that the Sandy Hook school shooting was fake are more respectable than NBC and the rest?

 

Wow.  I've got a magic power cable I can sell ya ...

Where did you learn that piece of garbage, it certainly wasn't on Fox.

[Sal1950]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

Your Honour, my client is not guilty of murder. Sure, he stabbed the deceased, but death has many causes. Nobody can be sure he wouldn't have died anyway.

And Al Gore invented the internet, everyone knows that

[Sal1950]

4 minutes ago, Teresa said:

Al Gore co-sponsored the legislation that created defensenet, a project that military computers and later grew into the worldwide web.

Yep, That was my point, propaganda and BS is still BS no matter which side of the isle creates it.

[Sal1950]

30 minutes ago, Jud said:

 

He did mention InfoWars specifically, which is where it has appeared.  Families of the dead children have had to move repeatedly in order to avoid threats and harassment from InfoWars audience members convinced by Alex Jones the entire thing was a sham perpetrated by paid actors in order to take away their guns.

 

As for Fox, at the time of Sandy Hook they hadn't gotten into practice yet.  By Parkland, they were ready.

 

https://fox61.com/2018/03/29/fox-news-host-laura-ingraham-apologizes-for-mocking-parkland-high-school-shooting-survivor/

 

 

 

 

So why repeat a piece of garbage that those idiots put out and try to infer it  as a  position that Fox news holds? Ridiculous underhanded smearing.