flkin Posted August 11, 2023 Share Posted August 11, 2023 removed PinkFaun - Vinnie Rossi - YBA - QSA Lanedri - Wilson Link to comment
Popular Post flkin Posted August 12, 2023 Popular Post Share Posted August 12, 2023 As promised : Visit to Pink Faun, Rhenen, Netherlands 2023 USB Ultra Bridge After hearing from Jord that they were working on a new Pink Faun USB Ultra bridge powered with super capacitors, I got excited. Just recently I had completed a SOTA DC power supply and used it as an external 5V to my existing PF USB bridge in my 2.16x streamer. The sound improvement was significant and reminded me how important a good power supply is for good music. Having experienced this personally, I rank the bridge used in the streamer as the data leaves for the DAC very high in the list of components that matter a lot in digital playback. So what changes can be made on the USB bridge that has not already been done? The current PF USB bridge already has an external power option and the internal Ultra clock module so what else can be done to improve the bridge? A lot it seems! Streets of Rhenen Despite being a family holiday in the Netherlands, I managed to persuade my wife and kids to spend half a day walking through the pretty town of Rhenen where Pink Faun is located. They had a good time, managed to learn a bit about the history of the place in they museum and even tried some Dutch Bitterballen meatballs. Future Pink Faun efforts During that time, I left them and spent it with Jord listening to the PF music room setup and discuss some of their passions and beliefs. From a design perspective, this new USB card certainly deserves the title "Ultra". It's a total new redesign of what would be a bucket list of what to pack into a bridge to make it SOTA. The first major change would be a new power system with incorporates 20 farad super capacitors. Super capacitors have an advantage of high current delivery at high speeds but are generally difficult to implement properly. This required a total redesign of the board with a new processor and custom firmware to manage the charging and power switching. There is a soft start which takes 1 minute before the super-caps take over. A bank of LEDs show the status of the power delivery. Originally I was told that they had considered adding up to 3 external power feeds - separately for the clock, the board and the USB power channel. But due to the complexity of implementing the super-caps, the final design is with just one DC input. Phew, having recently taken so long to build my external DC supply, I was not keen to arrange for a further 2 more DC lines for a single bridge! I am not surprised that PF used super-caps which they have already employed in their clock system inside their 2.16 Ultra streamer. This would be a logical extension of that tech they have already successfully used. Furthermore I understand that Mattijs de Vries of Farad Power Supplies, well established in super capacitor powered supplies, is still a team member of the Pink Faun group and meets regularly so I guess he has some input about the design as well. If any team is able to design and implement a small super-cap system for a bridge it would be them. EMI and heat isolation cover This super-caps redesign makes the card act almost like 2 components that happen to be joined together. The design groups the power side components into the end side of the board and places all the power regulators in a line at the junction. This is for a good reason as the new Ultra USB board has a metal (either in copper or aluminium to be decided) cover that has a drop-down division at that junction to act as an EMI isolator for the power side and also to remove heat from the regulators. The entire power section of the card is sectioned off from the rest of the USB components. The rest of the case also has drop-down columns that act as conductors to channel the heat off the IC components, rectifiers and clock into the case. Looks to be a well engineered solution to handle EMI and heat with just one component. Other improvements come from incorporating the Ultra clock as a permanent part of the board and not as a module allowing the implementation to be more purpose built. Although modules make the bridge more flexible in use, I guess this is the Ultra unit and flexibility has given way to the sonic advantages with the entire bridge unit working as one. Also the USB connector is now far more solid being designed as a singular piece with the main board. Of note also is the data line noise filtering components which looks to be more robust compared to the previous card, but this I have to check again once I receive my unit. So that is the design, how about the sound? I had the chance to listen to 3 bridge setups : - the existing USB bridge (Ultra clocked), - prototype Ultra USB bridge (1 of the 2 made to date) and - the existing I2S bridge (Ultra clocked). The prototype USB Ultra bridge was used without it’s EMI/heat isolation case and was only recently completed with just a few days of burn in time on it. For the sake of convenience, all 3 bridges were installed together and powered internally in the 2.16 Ultra streamer. Pink Faun 'pink' listening room Firstly the PF system is pretty impressive to look at. Jord explained that it comprised of their own components from cables to DAC to pre and power amps. Even their Euphrosyne speaker is of their own design. Presently they only offer their streamer, bridges, clocks and cables on their website but they might offer more devices in time. Apparently they have their hands full already with their orders so have little time to expand their line presently. At first the sound of the PF system was not as expected. Usually most demo systems try to impress a visitor with aspects to the sound - voluminous bass, extended treble and air, hyper dynamics or details. Not so here. The PF system is far more subtle. I was not blown away with sound characters but instead by how naturally it is delivered. I have tried for years to do the same in my own system - the get the natural sounding music that makes me forget the system but dive deep into the artists intentions. I'm always looking for the emotions behind the music not just the notes and this was what I heard! Wonderful to finally hear a system that is so natural but yet 'check-box' good in traditional audiophile descriptions of good sounds. We started off with Blues for Los Angeles, Bill Frisell, East/West album which played really well in the system. This track is something special and in a system so tight and natural, sounds like being on the stage with the band. Close up and personal. The existing USB bridge sounded wide and analogue. Comfortable listening with good tone, texture and details. Not unlike my own system but different. I heard more details with better placements in the soundstage. Given the bridge setup isn’t optimal playing from internal power, my first impression was very good. Focus was a little off though, good but not at the very best levels. It was good to hear this first as it was like a calibration for my ears. When switched over to the new Ultra USB bridge, the sound clearly tightened up. There was better focus but it sounded not quite as wide as the previous USB bridge. The ambient sounds also a touch less. It sounded like an upgrade but, from experience, the sound of one that had not opened up fully yet. Nevertheless overall there was an improvement. During the session we switched back and forwards from the USB bridges to the existing I2S bridge (ultra clocked). Of the 3 bridges I listened, this was my preferred sound for the day. Perhaps it was best matched to the PF DAC which uses an older Burr Brown chip which I believe plays up to 192kHz/24bit but it sounded glorious. We moved on to some classical selection which really was special. First was Pictures At An Exhibition, Promenade by Münchner Philharmoniker, Celibidache. The horns here were spookily real and placed in the soundstage so clearly. Nice! And then we tried Michel Godard's Monteverdi: A Trace of Grace. For those that are into baroque music and opera together with a touch of jazz this is will be a real gem as it contains a bit of everything. I didn't take note of the track we played but I recall the Serpent instrument and the Theorbo Lute. The Theorbo, for those that aren't aware, is an elongated lute allowing it to play deeper into the bass allowing the lute, conventionally used in smaller ensembles, to play in larger orchestras. In PF's natural sounding system with their I2S clocked bridge the experience was really special. The standout was how together the ensemble sounded with the Lute totally coherent in the bass notes. Good enough to make this my nomination as the album of the year! We ended up listening to a number of my familiar tracks on Tidal or Qobuz of which the stand out was the Coldplay Live in Bueno Aires, Fix You. I am very familiar with this track as when played in my own system the soundstage presented is deep and wide and amongst the best to show the effect of being in the audience. In the PF system the effect was astounding, 180 degrees enveloping with such clear placement of the music and audience it truly was the best I have ever heard of this track in any system, period. ‘Like being in the audience’ is an overused phrase but in this case, totally appropriate. And then 2 more tracks Jord suggested from Johnny Cash, American Recordings, Bird on a Wire and from Syml, Sacred Spaces, Take Me Apart. Both of these were again real ear openers. The emotional connection to the music to Johnny Cash's last months recordings was tear jerking and that ambience of Syml's recordings in St. Mark's cathedral is so totally euphoric. These are the reason why we are audiophiles. At the end of the session, I reconfirmed my past conclusion that the Pink Faun's chase of the natural sound is still so well matched to my own preferences. And that their prototype USB Ultra board is enough of an improvement over the existing board for me to make an upgrade. What I heard was very good and was achieved without using an external DC supply, without the EMI/heat isolation case, in a streamer with 3 bridges installed internally powered all at the same time. I expect that by the time the final unit is out, with an optimised install, it will sound even better than what I heard that day. Jord indicated he will have the cards ready later this year. At the time of my visit, the team was still tinkering with the firmware and the final case material wasn't chosen. Initial batch to be 20-30 units and may be for existing Pink Faun owners only. Oh and the white, ‘Future Pink Faun efforts’ in the photo above is just a new toilet that they will be fitting into their office shortly. Not part of their audio efforts but just as important, staff happiness! :-D Kin Exocer, Tatomek7, lpost and 2 others 2 3 PinkFaun - Vinnie Rossi - YBA - QSA Lanedri - Wilson Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Those speakers look real good - any details on those? Link to comment
flkin Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 42 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said: Those speakers look real good - any details on those? Yes, very good sounding speakers, called the Euphrosyne. 4 way without crossovers in the conventional sense, each driver is powered separately. The high frequencies are represented by a tweeter horn, actively driven by a single ended class A power amplifier of 10 watts from 5 kHz. For the middle frequencies between 600 Hz to 5 kHz they use a horn powered by a 10 watt amp. Then from 60 Hz to 600 Hz a separate power amplifier with a discrete driver stage without negative feedback that buffers in a 100-Watt Class D at 8 ohms. And the lowest frequencies handled by a paper 30cm paper driver, with a 5inch aluminum Hexatech voice coil. This voice coil moves 12.5 mm (both front and rear). This uses a 600-Watt Class D power amplifier at 8 ohms with a damping factor of 1200 @60Hz. There’s no passive crossover inside the speaker but the filtering is done between the line stage and power amplifiers. Since filtering is on line level, I’m informed that the advantage is to be able to use smaller/better components without phase shifting issues to deal with. I expected the horn to sound nasal and forward like most horns I’ve heard in the past but turns out only very slightly. They found a way to work the driver to adjust for this and it integrated well into the bass unit. I believe they have a taller unit as well shown in some HiFi shows - a symmetrical unit pivoting on the tweeter. Gavin1977 1 PinkFaun - Vinnie Rossi - YBA - QSA Lanedri - Wilson Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Thanks @flkin Apparently so long as the throat of a well designed horn is not more than 300mm deep then it won’t be perceived as ‘horny’. Link to comment
flkin Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 I was told that the Euphrosyne horn has a diameter of 30 centimeters, with a compression driver of 1.4 inches. From the pic below the driver look to be less than 300mm deep PinkFaun - Vinnie Rossi - YBA - QSA Lanedri - Wilson Link to comment
MarcelNL Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 6 hours ago, Gavin1977 said: Thanks @flkin Apparently so long as the throat of a well designed horn is not more than 300mm deep then it won’t be perceived as ‘horny’. dunno what that is based on, the horn curvature itself and how the driver is loaded is far more important than horn depth IME. ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 1 minute ago, MarcelNL said: dunno what that is based on, the horn curvature itself and how the driver is loaded is far more important than horn depth IME. Quote from an old study (proper research) - I don’t have the paper, but I think it was cited by Lynn Olson. Link to comment
MarcelNL Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 Citating without checking the original work is the cancer growth in science;-) I've been playing with ~70 cm deep front loaded horns (low end) that most definitely not sound 'horny' now if the horn curve was changed or if using backloaded design they might, reflections in the horn and the resulting depth of the 'sound lens' of the horn curve are my best guess to the origin of that phenomenon. ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. Link to comment
Gavin1977 Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 23 minutes ago, MarcelNL said: Citating without checking the original work is the cancer growth in science;-) I've been playing with ~70 cm deep front loaded horns (low end) that most definitely not sound 'horny' now if the horn curve was changed or if using backloaded design they might, reflections in the horn and the resulting depth of the 'sound lens' of the horn curve are my best guess to the origin of that phenomenon. It was a very old paper. It may be true for some earlier horns as the throat design and curvature of the horn flare affect its response. These days that is optimized with CAD, so might well be a moot point. Link to comment
MarcelNL Posted August 12, 2023 Share Posted August 12, 2023 23 minutes ago, Gavin1977 said: It was a very old paper. It may be true for some earlier horns as the throat design and curvature of the horn flare affect its response. These days that is optimized with CAD, so might well be a moot point. just lemme know if you find the paper at any point! I have been deep diving horn patents lately...finding interesting stuff. ISP, glass to Fritz!box 5530, another Fritz!box 5530 for audio only in bridged mode on LPS, cat8.1, Zyxel switch on LPS, Finisar <1475BTL>Solarflare X2522-25G, external wifi AP, AMD 9 16 core, passive cooling ,Aorus Master x570, LPSU with Taiko ATX, 8Gb Apacer RAM, femto SSD on LPS, Pink Faun I2S ultra OCXO on akiko LPS, home grown RJ45 I2S cable, Metrum Adagio DAC3, RCA 70-A and Miyaima Zero for mono, G2 PL519 tube amps. Link to comment
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now