Why does SPDIF basically suck?

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17 minutes ago, sandyk said:

Well implemented Coax SPDIF can sound markedly better than most USB implementations , although it's bandwidth is inadequate for recent DSD implementations, where there is a limited amount of material available, and not in popular music either.

There is no reason why Coax SPDIF's bandwidth couldn't be markedly improved these days if there was a will to do so.

Don’t forget the large offering of SACD that can now be ripped and played back on computer players. 

Some of this music is now regretfully out of print.

 

I like AES3 oddly enough,  as you mention about well implemented coax, last night compared a red book playback to USB on the same DAC A/B via Roon, simple to do, USB had a distinct edge in resolution, not much, but enough to not engage interest.

 

The same music when played on a CD player wiped both computer playback systems (again), no contest.

 

The album was Lydian Collective ‘Adventure’.

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22 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

A vast amount of feedback in other areas of the forum suggests that this has yet to be achieved.

Just as with S/PDIF...no digital audio transmission could ever until a major rethink about timing is accepted.

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11 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

What could possibly be better than total control of the totally buffered d-a process by the DAC master clock?  Oh, wait.  Spdif/Toslink/AESEBU do not do that.  Asych USB does.  Hmmm.

A buffer certainly helps too.

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59 minutes ago, Ralf11 said:

does it matter what noise is Behind the Digital Curtain as long as you isolate it?

 

 

After 6000 posts, you should know by now?

 

For the benefit of others, one needs to know the enemy in order to defeat it. Without precisely measuring noise and how much can affect DAC front ends, even methods of isolation can be defeated, since the conquest of noise is, so far, a blunderbuss approach instead of lasers. This is on top of transmitter receiver limitations in either S/PDIF or USB.

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38 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

The real world, however, has moved on. More modern synchronous alternatives such as I2S via LVDS over HDMI haven't achieved market penetration and require specialized PCIe cards ... and still don't do DSD.

Audio interfaces have a such a poor method of standardisation, reminds me of the Fleetwood Mac song 'Go your own Way'. Was it Sonore that listed dozens of different methods of I2S over LVDS, apart from PSAUDIO which has a small following, everyone else is going their own way. 

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2 hours ago, Ralf11 said:

 

 

Hey <2 - if you do NOT know just say so - or don't pollute in the first place

Hey, Ralfeeee Babeee, this is rich coming from the pot that calls the kettle black, the master of polluter posts. Two people reacted to the post, perhaps have a closer look?

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12 minutes ago, Fitzcaraldo215 said:

Part of the appeal of spdif/AESEBU/Toslink is that they are just plug n'play. Asynch  USB 2 may be slightly harder in that it might require specialized driver software in the PC.  It is the difference between a dumb, one way communications system and a smart,  two way protocol.  I simply look to my DAC manufacturer to supply that software mechanism, and I have no problems.

 

I see absolutely no inherent technical advantages in I2S vs. asynch USB, no matter the interconnection method.  It might synchronize clocking between player and DAC, but the wrong way, slaving the DAC clock to the player.  However, I2S is not designed for long interconnect runs, and clock jitter in whatever interconnect may be hard to eradicate. In the now widely available, more easily implemented asynch USB, jitter simply vanishes, except for any residual jitter, usually quite low,  internal to DAC itself as delivered via its short internal I2S circuit traces.

Yes, agree totally here. I2S with LVDS can work, if source to target is from the same manufacturer, using the same protocols, and the timing is taken care of. The new Auralic G2 gear may have this concept with their L-Link, but would use something different at a higher speed since their LEO reference clock operates at some MHz, yet another non standard technique.

[One and a half]

S/PDIF can be reclocked and the results improve quite well such as a Mutec MC-3+USB.

This is more money to spend for device like the Diavalet or Yggdrasil, then again more money needs to treat USB and Ethernet as well.

 

If primary playback is Redbook, the S/PDIF can be mastered and will work well, USB has the upper hand with bandwidth where it’s needed for DSD128+.

 

I agree with @Superdad that DAC designers that struggle with USB interfaces to sound reasonable don’t deserve patronage.

 

Isnt there a new XMOS interface due soonish?

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2 minutes ago, Audiophile Neuroscience said:

 

 

Are the above statements compatible?

 

 

 

The Mutec discards any clock data in the s/PDIF stream and creates  new timing injection using its own close to reference type clock. There’s still a PLL PID control with at least a better clock to begin with. Just a different technique to overcome a legacy.