ISO Regen performance Improvement Cheap!

[Cornan]

Since it was a quick one to do I just added the solid core tripple ccc copper cable to -Ve and the silver plated stranded copper wire to +Ve. Ensured dustance between the wires. No shield beats air and distance IME.

 

 

Well well! I think I have my winner so far here. Before hitting the big drum I will continue to listen to this cable for a while. Initially it is airier and more detailed in width, depth, highs & lows. A more relaxed and natural sounding cable than Supra DAC + 75 ohm coax so far for sure. Maybe it isn’t as crisp in the treble area as dual Supra DAC, but it surely digs deeper in the low bass region.

 

Maybe I am imagining things here but after all these rapid cable experiments I get a creepy feeling that the -Ve controls the bass and lower midrange region and +Ve the treble and upper midrange region more than the other? ?

 

 

[Cornan]

To ensure that it was consistant I changed out my Supra DAC + 75 ohm coax to the unshielded tripple ccc solid copper + silver plated stranded copper between dual LS-HPULNs (5A LT3045) and Brooklyn DAC. For notes the red wire coming into LS-HPULN is AC not DC.

 

 

Instant improvement! Much more than the first switch between LPS-1.2 and BW board. Crispy treble and music is back big time. Listening to Aisha Badru’s track Bridges vibrates the room but with lots and lots of air/3D/4D and crispy hights and dynamic violins. Here voice gives me goosebumps with this cable. Mike Dawes Encomium (Reverie) gives me goosebumps. Syml’s Boby gives me goosebumps. Love it! ?

Now this one is my keeper. No more experiments. This is what I was looking for! ?

[Cornan]

Watching this https://terpconnect.umd.edu/~wbreslyn/magnets/index.html I in combination with my own experiences with DC cables I wonder if the force of the eddy currents could possibly define the different audioble frequencies heard with different wire materials?As seen on this website copper makes a magnet fall slow. Could the slow movement of electrons define bass and low end midrange while a faster movement of electrons defines (for example silver) high midrange and treble? Just a thought. What is your opinion @marce, @jabbr and @sandyk?

 

If this is plausible I will surely continue to try pure silver on +Ve and pure copper with copper shield (JSSG) on -Ve. It would surely open a lot of doors for experiments.

[Cornan]

23 minutes ago, paulkouhan said:

hi

 

can you describe what cables you are using ?

 

unshielded tripple ccc solid copper ?

 

silver plated stranded copper ?

 

thanks

 

Acoustic Revive tripple ccc wire (single not double) made from a butchered Purephonics DC cable https://eden-audio.com/index.php?id_product=375&controller=product and this 1mm Vanguard silver plated OCC copper wire that I normaly use for grounding purposes https://www.ebay.com/itm/10m-Vanguard-1mm-square-high-purity-silver-plated-OCC-wire-Hi-Fi-Audio-cable-/182374776295?_ul=BO

[Cornan]

14 minutes ago, paulkouhan said:

thank you !

 

I have some

JANTZEN AUDIO HEW-PTFE Wiring cable Copper/Silver 1.3mm² I use to make speaker cables.

 

I will try it this week end.

 

You’re welcome Paul! Jantzen audio makes great cables. Be sure to keep distance between the wires and report back so other people can gain from your personal experiments! ?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, charlesphoto said:

So curiosity got the better of me, and per Cornan's latest findings, here's my new Franken cable, minus any Supra! Some solid core 75 ohm digital cable left by the Direct TV installer, for -ve, and some 24 awg solid silver wire for the +ve (Vanguard, eBay). No JSSG. Both what I had on hand - one might do better with pricier wire but who knows. . 

 

Pretty much sounds like Cornan describes. I will note I tried first with screw barrel connectors, and every time I get a more dynamic and slightly less veiled sound with the soldered Oyaides. It's subtle, but something to think about. I'm loving the bass slam with this combo, and the high end seems sweeter with the simple single strand of unshielded silver (less wincing moments for this tinnitus sufferer).

 

What a journey. Last one Cornan! I will say that one can't go wrong with Supra Cat8 and beyond, though it looks as if actual separation of the wires is the key. The twist in Cat7/8 must be doing something similar, though actual physical separation is better. 

 

 

 

Last time you’ll change? Promise? ?

[Cornan]

Just now, charlesphoto said:

 

You first! 

 

Never! ?

[Cornan]

6 minutes ago, tims said:

Going back to the original POE dc cable that started this topic,, what are the common traits between your 'Franken' cable and the POE design - only the thin silver 24 awg as far as I can see? 

Is this the critical factor as to why this design works so well?

 

In my mind it is the shield between the wires that make the change. There is no better shield than

air and distance between the wires around. Period! ?

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, sandyk said:

Re your last paragraph.

Nobody can accuse you of lacking in the Imagination area ! 

 

I’ll guess not! ?

 

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, paulkouhan said:

I think the same concerning the distance. 

I don t understand why the use different cables for v+ and v- !

 

 

I use different cables because it fine tune the sound. Using only tripple ccc copper was great in the bass area but too dark in the treble area. Silver plated copper was great in the treble area but too bright in the bass area. Combining the two sinply have me the best of two worlds! ?

[Cornan]

Happy Midsummer! ?

 

 

[Cornan]

42 minutes ago, AnotherSpin said:

 

Did you have an idea to try the pair of the same cable for both + and - with different length of the same cable? From Fibonacci sequence, like 21 and 34? ?

 

No I have’nt tried that yet. Might try it later on. Right now I want to listen for this cable for a little while before trying new versions. The dual Supra DAC was better in the treble area than my current cable so I am interested to try out a combination of the two to see what that comes to. Later.

[Cornan]

17 hours ago, BigGuy said:

I would propose that the JSSG360 does comprise a Faraday shield (thinking of it as thermos bottle of sorts) but that what is "protected" is the insulating material between them.

 

Reading about thermos bottles I found this part quite interesting:

https://futurism.com/physics-thermos-heat-transfer/

 

Quote

Every object radiates heat to some degree (depending on how hot the object is). A hot liquid in the inside bottle will still radiate heat, or the outside bottle will still radiate heat toward the liquid inside the bottle. To minimize this, the surface is coated with silver. Silver prevents electromagnetic waves from passing, thus it keeps the radiation at bay (this is the principle used in Faraday cages).

 

?

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, AnotherSpin said:

As I am quite happy with Supra DAC double cable connection between PSU and regen I did it permanent. Very short, about 20 cm, soldered to Mean Well PSU directly. Clear improvement of the sound after connection shortened and soldered directly instead of attached to the 1cm piece of previous cable from MW.

 

 

 

Nice work! Looks great! ???

[Cornan]

7 hours ago, charlesphoto said:

Here's the latest iteration of the Frankencable. Taking the advice that the Lt3045 should be as close as possible to the device (microRendu in this case), I've pretty much eliminated any "cable" after the lt3045, just going with a very short stud of solid 18g copper coaxial for -ve. Very short! And a  shorter run of the 24g solid silver wire for +ve. I've also JSSG'd the incoming piece of coaxial. 

 

As to sound: incredible bass response and separation of sounds. Tried a Supra Cat8 cable back in and it only lasted two minutes compared to this.Very dynamic - can be a bit overwhelming on some tracks at first. The performers feel more out in the room, and the air around instruments feels more present.Very toe tapping. 

 

Makes me wonder of course if I used better materials vs just what I had on hand how much better the sound could get. Way too many variables involved, but I think key is the separation of wires entirely per Cornan's finding. Then it's up to type (copper vs silver or silver plated, solid vs stranded), shielding or not, and length, and quality of materials.  But for now this is doing it for me. Got some Kemet caps on the way to see what those do.

 

 

 

Cool! ? I would be very interested in your impressions of the Kemet A750 (25v/560uF?) at the output of the LT3045. They are simple great in my setup.

[Cornan]

Just to still my curiousity I decided to make this cable between LS-HPULNs abd Brooklyn DAC. Silver plated OCC copper wire with Acoustic Revive tripple CCC copper wire twisted around it. I also turned the LS-HPULNs around and put it on top of the balanced and floating 230-12VAC ps plus Brooklyn DAC to make the DC cable much shorter (~60% shorter).

 

 

Much better in the treble area. Still digging deep and the presence is truly great. Dynamics great. Music glow great. Crispy treble great. Midrange shines. Really happy with this cable! ???

[Cornan]

6 hours ago, BigGuy said:

IF a thermos is a double cylinder of glass, etc., I  believe it is a good approximation of two layers of braid connected to each other separated by a insulating layer in the context of our discussions, IMHO.  A true thermos is two cylindrical layers of glass closed at the end with a evacuated layer in between.

 

I kinda liked the thermos bottle simularity to JSSG360! ? Even if a thermos bottles of course is a totally different thing I still wonder if a JSSG360 is actually best used on both +Ve and -Ve to protect the stabillity inside the wires due to capasitive coupling between the two plus protect it from outside RFI/EMI. I also wonder how much the temerature inside the DC cable needs to be controlled? There are other interesting thermo foil solutions around that might give ideas to why the JSSG360 seems more effective than JSSG according to others. ?

[Cornan]

16 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

 How much is the separation between them ?

 

Not sure what you mean since I have not tried a JSSG360 just yet? In my own latest version with unshielded dual wires the separation between -Ve and +Ve is roughly 3 times the size of the wire i the middle ad of course much closer at the plug ends. I have ordered copper tape that I plan to use at the plug ends (around both -Ve ad +Ve wires with electrical tape on top plus possibly around the DC plugs) to see if that gives an additional SQ boost or not. Let´s see!  

[Cornan]

1 hour ago, sandyk said:

 

Unless the lead with that spacing is relatively long, there will only be a VERY small amount of capacitance.

In fact, you can make a low value capacitor of around 10 picofarads or so, simply by twisting a couple of inches of thin insulated wire together.To obtain a specified value you would need to make it a little longer and cut to the right length using a Capacitance Meter. 

 

Interesting Alex!  One thing that I have wondered with the use of my inline Kemet A750s (or other capasitors for that matter). They seem to improve on both ends of a DC cable. Since a capacitor keeps positive and negative charges from each other I am wondering if it is not better to actually solder the DC wires to the Kemet A750 legs (close to the capasitor body) and just insert the far end legs of the Kemet to the DC plugs, so no DC wire is infact in contact with the DC plug terminals? Using one capasitor at each end will then truly prevent the positive and negative charges from interfearing each other. Does this seems right to you?

[Cornan]

2 minutes ago, sandyk said:

 

Sounds a bit messy, but if it works for you ….

"Suck it and see"

 

Not sure that it needs to be that messy. I can always start out just twisting the DC cable wires around the capasitor legs and cover them with a bit of electrical tape to prevent it from moving. If it turns out better I can always solder the wires to the legs later on (if I cannot find another solution that is)! 

I think I will suck on it right after work! ?

[Cornan]

I could’nt wait to try out my idea with the wires twisted around the middle of Kemet A750 legs and lower part of the legs inserted into the DC screw terminal DC plug instead if squeezing the Kemet legs inside the plug together with the wires. Common sence tells you that that connection cannot be perfect. To make it a ever greater task I decided to use only the silver plated OCC copper wires. No Acoustic Revive Tripple CCC copper wire and only one Kemet at the output.

 

 

Wow! This is by far the best ”here-with-me-inside-my-room-feeling” I have ever heard in my setup. A really crazy presence and air! Bass is awesome! Treble is awesome! Dynamics in lows, mids and hights are tremendous! Voices and guitars are putting me on a spell. Impossible to change track ones you’ve started to listen to any track. Fibers, 3D, 4D music glow and everything else is almost impeccable IMO. Fuck shielding. It is capacitors that separates -Ve to +Ve that you REALLY want if you trust me (Kemets or other brands)!???

 

Remember that this is just the beginning! The connection between the wire and Kemets legs is just crazy bad as you can see on the pictures. Still it give me this awesome result. Soldering joints will likely improve the result. The Kemet is just in single. One at each end of the cable will likely be much better IME (I have tried). I have 9 Kemet’s in my setup right now (but will order more tonight). I can only imagine how much they will improve thing further with this mod. Truly isolating the DC cable path. Joy! ??

[Cornan]

Just now, BigGuy said:

Do we have a theory as to why the addition of a Kemet, etc., across the v+ & v -  could have such an effect?

 

Yes, we...or atleast I do! ?

A capasitor totally isolates the -Ve from +Ve (think of it kinda like a battery even if it is not). In my current cable just at one end. In my own experience using one capacitor at each end of a DC cable is superior to one. Why? Because both ends probably needs to be isolated to ensure that only -Ve flows in the -Ve wire and only +Ve flows in the +Ve wire and to minimize capasitive coupling. Still I am sure that distance between the wires are important to minimize any capasitive coupling, but not by the same extent since there is no possitive charge present in the negative wire and the other way around. Anyone else are completely free to chim in with their own take on this theory! ?

[Cornan]

20 minutes ago, charlesphoto said:

Cornan,

 

What type and gauge of wire are you using? My Kemet’s don’t get here until next week - really looking forward to trying them. Last night I shortened the incoming portion to the 3045 of my cable by half. Even more bass! But I know I can do better with the type of wire. 

 

Best,

 

CP

 

I am using 1mm Vanguard silver plated OCC wire. Very cheap on eBay! 

 

Regarding the LT3045. What Vf (voltage forward drop) do you use? Remember that 3 Vf is optimal for single LT3045 and 1 Vf is optimal for series LT3045. Keep any DC cable (before and after LT3045) as short as physically possible for best result. Lastly series LT3045 is significantly better than singles. Even if you combine let’s say 0.5A with 1A. Just make sure to put the highest A closest to the powered device (higher A= better)! ?

[Cornan]

2 hours ago, BigGuy said:

Just one man's opinion but if we know that an open-ended braided shield will act as a Faraday cage unless, as <mansr> has suggested, the cable is on the order of 12 inches in diameter...

...AND we accept Fowler's "superscreened" cable design as being 2 layers of copper braid with a layer of muMetal foil between, then that should work very well.  (NOTE: Fowler does indicate that 3 layers of braid alternated with 2 layers of muMetal foil would yield a "hyper", my word, screened cable.)  The difficult part of Fowler's construction is leaving the gap between the outer surface of the inner braid and the inner surface of the foil without special equipment.

I am going to post treat some cable(s) with this construction tho' I am not quite sure how I can manually creat the gap which according to Fowler greatly changes the inductance and improves screening performance.

 

The other considerable concern is whether  the final construction will take a bend!?

 

Nice! My only concern with shielding in this concept is that shielding degrades SQ IME. Sometimes shielding is a must, but is it really needed in an audiophile setup? Sorry, but I think not! Going after MuMetal is not the key to better SQ in the audiophile world. Air/distance and isolation is the key if you ask me, but do ask others! ?

[Cornan]

All this makes me wonder if the wire gauge does’nt matter? Is it the isolation between -Ve and +Ve that matters in the end? I intend to find out! I will try my mod with a dual Supra Cat 8 wire (two of eight wires) to see if that will change anything. Hopefully tomorrow! ?