Schiit embarrassed at AXPONA

[gmgraves]

On 4/14/2018 at 9:13 PM, GUTB said:

I don’t know how much of the Schiit’s performance was compromised by inferior cabling,

None of it. Even if cabling did account for some difference in sound quality between the two rooms, it wouldn't be that great. Even among those who who believe that cabling makes a difference, they know that the difference would be quite subtle, not in your face like you are painting it. If cables made that much difference, they wouldn't be controversial. Hell two different amplifiers wouldn't make the kind of difference in SQ that you're talking about! But different speakers would. I know nothing of either speaker brand, so I can't address those differences. 

[gmgraves]

On 4/15/2018 at 5:41 AM, firedog said:

Schiit is value equipment. "Audiophile" level - better than consumer level - but not really the absolute best. Better than some stuff than costs considerably more than it does.

Other than the Yggy, they don't really claim their stuff is as good as "anything out there". And at least with the Yggy there are plenty of users and professional reviewers who've favorably compared the Yggy to DACs costing $10-$20K. The Gungnir Multibit costs around $1250 and isn't even their best DAC. As it says on it's product page:

The result is exceptional performance for the price—frequently lauded by the press as the best in its price class.

As noted, the Esoteric stuff probably cost many times what the Schiit stuff does. 

I have an Asgard II headphone amplifier for my HE-1000 v.2 headphones, and it is the best sounding headphone amp I've yet heard. So, some of their stuff is really good. I suspect that most people would find that a system built around a Schiit Gungnir Multi-bit DAC, (or even better, a 2nd Gen Yggy) a Freya preamp and a pair of Vidars used as mono-blocks would be a system worthy of some of the better speakers: Magneplanar MG 30.7s, Martin Logan Renaissance, Sound Labs Majestic 945PX, Wilson Audio Sabrina, etc. Their electronics, as far as my experience goes, are exceptionally well designed. but the final arbiters for the SQ of any system are the speakers and the room's acoustics. Even the Esoteric stuff would not impress if paired with speakers that were not up to them. 

[gmgraves]

On 4/16/2018 at 1:50 PM, George Hincapie said:

 

You didn't mention money. I bet Schiit destroyed Esoteric in the value proposition. I accept the cable comment though; only a fool would argue cables don't make a difference.

I'm one of those "fools" then. I've been involved in too many interconnect DBTs that show no sonic difference between  the most expensive interconnects and the cheapest throw-away cables to buy into that. But that's neither here nor there. For the sake of this discussion, let's say that cables make the subtle magnitude of difference that proponents of the proposition claim they make. Even so, there is no way cables could be in any way contributory to the vast difference in SQ that GUTB noted between the Schiit setup and the Esoteric setup!

[gmgraves]

18 minutes ago, mansr said:

Of course not. Only the price tag can do that.

I'm not so sure even that is true. Take the Schiit system and the Esoteric system, have them both play the same piece of music through the same pair of speakers (with a switch to select which system is playing through the speakers at any given time) and I doubt that anyone would find enough difference between to two in a double blind comparison to consistently be able to pick out the more expensive of the two systems. Don't misunderstand me here, I'm not trying to say that the two disparate systems would sound alike, not a bit of it, but I'm saying that one probably won't sound enough better than the other as to be a clear indicator of price. Remember. In high-end audio price doesn't always indicate sound quality. 

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

And different music.

Yes, That too.

[gmgraves]

1 hour ago, nefilim said:

I have no dog in this ... difference of opinion but apparently Schiit DACs don't measure very well either... could there actually be a correlation between certain measurements and perceived quality ??

On the contrary, Schiit's latest Gungnir and Yggdrasil both measure beautifully!

[gmgraves]

17 minutes ago, nefilim said:

 

Do you have any references? I'd like to see more "objective measurements". 

 

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurements-and-review-of-schiit-yggdrasil-dac.2358/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/measurement-and-review-of-schiit-bifrost-multibit-dac.2319/

https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-measurements-of-schiit-fulla-v1-dac-and-headphone-amplifier.2641/

 

ps. nice GTV!! 

You are aware that the Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil have recently been upgraded? Look at the AtomicBob test of the current Yggy at Superbestaudiofriends.com. The numbers are fantastic and since I have one, I can attest to the fact that in shoot-outs between the Yggy and Benchmark 3 and the uber expensive MSB Diamond IV, the Yggy put 'em all to shame SQ wise.

[gmgraves]

9 hours ago, firedog said:

You missed my other post where I mentioned that their better headphone amps are considered top notch. And the Freya is a very good piece of equipment; and yes, there's better -  several times it's price.

Yes, I did miss that. But you are right, I know two people who have a Freya, and one of them also has a pair of Vidar power amps. I haven't heard either of them, because one lives down near Santa Barbara CA and the other lives up in Mendocino County, way up on the Northern CA coast near Fort Brag and I'm in Nevada. But I trust that both of them have good ears and similar tastes to mine. They are both ecstatic about their systems, so I suspect that both systems sound superb. WRT my Asgard II. Folks at the PR firm were skeptical when I told them that I would be pairing the HE-1000 v.2 (which retail for $3K) with a $250 headphone amp. they wanted me to use them with a Woo WA5 tubed headphone amp (roughly $3.5K). I tried the Woo but the Asgard II sounded much better and that's what I went with! I'm not really a headphone fan (they're a necessary evil to me, and I use them when needed, but otherwise prefer speakers) but with the Schiit Asgard II, my personal HiFiMan EditionX v.2 are a real joy to listen to! (the HE-1000 v.2s were on loan from HiFiMan and weren't mine). 

[gmgraves]

15 hours ago, beancounter said:

 

Being a dumpster-diving, bottom feeding DIY type, I’m inclined to agree with your sentiments in a general sense. Good (and bad) sound comes in a wide ranges of price tags.  

 

Same system, most likely couldn’t differentiate DACs, within preference/taste (I personally think DAC and line level have matured, lots of great sound at most price points, but that’s another discussion). 

 

Amplification, I think a good listener could readily differentiate between Esoteric and Schiit.  My opinion. 

 

I dont think Schiit was embarrassed at all, and I think the Salk speakers were appropriate for thier target market. But Esoteric/Canton was in a different category than Schiit/Salk. 

Oh, I have no doubt that the Esoteric system is the better of the two, but how much better? I think most of today's electronics are so squeaky clean that it would be hard to put significant SQ difference in two wildly disparate ($ wise) systems down to electronics and none down to cables. But speakers will make most of the difference, 

[gmgraves]

On 4/17/2018 at 8:56 PM, beancounter said:

Amplification, I think a good listener could readily differentiate between Esoteric and Schiit.  My opinion. 

I'd have to hear both of them before making venturing an opinion there. But it seems to me that while there is definitely a difference between amps, like the way it was 20-25 years ago, they are more alike these days than different. Still, vive le difference!

[gmgraves]

55 minutes ago, adamdea said:

"La", Graves: write it out 50 times.

Obviously I don't speak French!

[gmgraves]

 

4 hours ago, vmartell22 said:

Schiit was at AXPONA again this year. They were showing a Salk music server streaming into a Gungnir Multibit (?) feeding a Freya and two Vidars. Speakers were the Salk Song 3As.

 

So, If you have the Salk components you won't get Polio?

[gmgraves]

6 hours ago, adamdea said:

Ni moi non plus. 

You do and you'll clean it up! Besides isn't Leonard Ni moi dead?