Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[luisma]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:29 AM, alvin1118 said:

My apologies for the delay. I may have good news soon. (hint?)

Alvin? good or bad news?

On a separate note someone asked about leaving the DAC ON all the time, how does that affects the life of the product? this is all digital I presume the consumption will be nothing and since there are no fans ... Can you provide some advice?

[luisma]

On 10/21/2018 at 3:29 AM, alvin1118 said:

Hello guys,

 

My apologies for the delay. I may have good news soon. (hint?)

 

Alvin w/ ♥️

 

Happy New Year everyone, thread have been inactive for some time, Alvin any updates on the DSD512 support? any good news to share with us? Anxiously waiting for the DSD512 support.

 

Best

 

Luis

[luisma]

My Amanero firmware is working great no loud popping noises, I mean there is a pop noise only at the start but not that loud or annoying and I stay fixed at DSD256, did you updated the firmware DEV?

I am running 1099c I believe

 

[luisma]

15 hours ago, Dev said:

Is there a way to check the firmware version ?

There must be a way, from what I remember when you connect to it you get some feedback from the USB interface, I am using HQPE to upsample and in the HQPE logs if I remember correctly something is shown as well from the interaction of HQPE asking the DAC's capabilities.... I just don't have the DAC with me here now ....

I asked because I had so many issues in the beginning with loud pops and even more like noise when changing filters etc. and when upgraded most of the issues were gone. The only one that remains when I start playing is a pop but not loud and brief

 

[luisma]

Hi Alvin, still no updates?

Best

 

[luisma]

On 3/13/2019 at 2:49 PM, jmpsmash said:

 

Has anyone been able to use a Linux based Roon Endpoint (or any other Linux based streamer) successfully with the Terminator? I am using a Raspberry Pi + running Ropieee and while most things works, I am unable to get native DSD to work. Ropieee supports native DSD with the Amanero board, but the Terminator is not reporting Native DSD as a capability.

 

 

I have used Allo Bridge, custom Ubuntu and Linux custom image with no issue, you may want to be sure you have the latest and stable Amanero firmware.

 

[luisma]

18 hours ago, JamesBardsley said:

I'd like to find a DAC that would give me a sound I love and stick with it for several years - preferably a decade!

I think that should be possible even in this accelerating digi world...

Frankly, also, I can't afford to upgrade my DAC every year, either financially or in terms of the time involved.

Hi James, IMO, like @Dev was saying changes are so drastic and product life-cycle so fast in the digital world that most likely you will upgrade the system before 10 years. That said if you can come to terms with the quality of your system without wanting / desiring something else then I think you can keep it for a long long time. The issue with the people (you will find here in this forums me included) is we are mostly tinkerers, perfectionists, OCD driven, psychotic individuals which sometimes (me included) are more concerned for how the system sounds than actually enjoying the experience (which is a shame) just with time I have learn to balance my time and enjoy without actually being critical or thinking what can be improved. It seems to me you are already there on the "mostly enjoyment" side which is great.

When I purchased my terminator I wanted something "upgradable" without having to buy a new DAC to support higher rate DSD for example and resell and old one. It seems Alvin and Denafrips have delivered this where you don't have to discard any equipment (like with other vendors), he actually projected DSD512 support and since some time have passed and 1024 is available it is a very nice plus to the upgrade.

Honestly I think the concept of having a separate digital - analog sides allowing you to upgrade the one that changes more often (digital) in a very easy way is brilliant.

Disclaimer I am not an expert in all these matters this is just my own personal opinion.

 

[luisma]

On 5/31/2019 at 8:46 AM, JamesBardsley said:

Have you ever heard of anyone using a Terminator with a dCS Network Bridge? (The NB made a huge positive impact on the SQ of my 272)

I heard some people using it with the current Amanero board with Singxer SU1 and they seem to notice improved sounds. I thought on this but did not wanted to limit the DAC capabilities adding something else in the middle (I am using HQPE).

 

On 5/31/2019 at 8:46 AM, JamesBardsley said:

When the Terminator is in oversampling mode, does it translate all files into higher sampling rate signals?

You will need Alvin (or someone else) to reconfirm this, if you are upsampling to the DAC's digital interface max capabilities (like with HQP) then the DAC supposedly just passes on the stream to be converted directly to the analog conversion stage, now here is where I think the incoming stream is still buffered and reclocked no matter what ( @alvin1118 and maybe @Miska can provide more details), all this for NOS mode. some data provided by others shows that if you upsample before the DAC (upstream?) the DAC chip doesn't have to "work hard" and the quality might be better (every system is different).

 

I have been playing lately FLAC 44 Khz 16 bit directly to the DAC (no ROON, no HQP, no nothing just a FLAC player on fanless i3) and I found my system sounding amazingly good like this, I been going over a lot of changes lately which I know affected this, usually HQP is a constant in my system. So I personally think if you try the DAC give it a chance with what the DAC has to offer and if you are not satisfied you can definitely start fiddling options later.

 

I am not commercially associated nor I receive any profits or perks from any of the vendors in this forum.

 

Hope it helps you

 

[luisma]

I mentioned Miska's on my post as he has experience with many DACs and he is very well versed on the analog / digital conversions for most chipsets, not necessarily the Terminator.

 

[luisma]

3 hours ago, JamesBardsley said:

How do most people on this Forum connect to the Terminator?

Do you typically use HQPlayer on a PC and link via USB?

I am currently using USB 

[luisma]

General question, the old Amanero USB input was PCM 24 bits DSD 32 bits is that accurate?

The new chip have the same specs right?

 

[luisma]

15 hours ago, elan120 said:

That is my plan as well, using USB input to test out DSD1024.

If possible or needed in your cases try to do HQP and NAA separate boxes, the naa ideally fanless, simple and fed by an LPS, within budget and possibilities of course. I have tested different combinations of software and hardware, Ubuntu, windows, Audiolinux, euphony, allo Bridge, fanless nucs, Intel, celerons and with termy specifically and USB I always go to the dual box solution. Of course I have the amanero chipset currently and your dacs will Come with the new one which might make the use of 2 boxes unnecessary and my former testing invalid. 

 

[luisma]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

This is very possible as I am currently having a two box setup with a modded 16 core server and modded NUC7i7DNHE in X7D case running AL as endpoint.  Will be interesting to find out if the new Terminator USB input will make the two box setup unnecessary, but certainly am looking forward to find out...soon...

Lol, well I guess you are more than prepared for the task.

 

I think the same, supposedly the new board removes noise, improves clock and possibly general isolation which may make the use of 2 boxes not necessary like you said

[luisma]

Same here, Alex seems to be pretty close to deliver. I have a different setup though that most of the users here I think. My server and NAA are powered by Alex's JS2 connected directly to my DAC via USB. the 2 boxes are connected with an Ethernet cable and that's it, no switch, no NAS. SQ is great. Jussi once recommended to add a switch in the middle for better galvanic isolation and I tried a Cisco 100M with different configs etc. but it did not made a difference or in any case it was worse. So all music comes through a wireless adapter on the server side and mainly streamed from Tidal / Qobuz. 

 

My point is since I don't have a switch I would not need the EtherRegen but I'm still curious to try and maybe change my rig who knows

 

[luisma]

so the difference with the Amanero board is night and day @elan120?

[luisma]

6 hours ago, elan120 said:

This is the part I won't be able to test, as my Terminator came with the new DSP board.

hahaha ok then

I will

 

[luisma]

1 hour ago, elan120 said:

I am using HQPlayer to do upsampling, and have tried using Roon in the past, but isn't as good as HQPlayer.  If you were asking what music player I would recommend to run upsampling, then it would be HQPlayer.

Hi Elan don't remember if I asked you this before, have you tried recently Roon directly no upsampling to the DAC? Or HQP pass-through? I recently changed my speakers and Roon direct no upsampling with dac in NOS mode sounds very good, HQP creates a different atmosphere for the sound which didn't before and it could be the new speakers but I'm just curious 

[luisma]

Thanks, I will do more testing and post back here once you are completed burnin in the new DSP for confirmation and sharing configs.

 

[luisma]

I thought I should post this, for those of you still on amanero board don't waste the opportunity of PCM only to the DAC, better IMO than DSD, if you have the ability to upsample PCM 48 kbps, 384 might be thinner. Give it a try and send feedback if possible. NOS as well 

 

[luisma]

I am as anxious as you are for the new board, I don't think denafrips is selling so many Terminators that the new board production will be focused on new units and not the replacements, I genuinely believe the board is under rigorous testing before sending it out, if something fails the backlash will be huge, they will have to figure out a way to replace it or update it, it will cost them in money and their reputation. For once I am happy to wait. 

Honestly aside of the PCM and DSD content conversion glitch the existing Amanero board sounds amazing, the difference in dsd rate SQ after 512 is not that critical anyways. 

Not trying to take sides with denafrips here, I don't get paid for this 🙂 but it is what I think 

 

 

[luisma]

10 hours ago, Dev said:

. The only reason I am getting the board is the sample rate change glitches/pops in the existing Amanero board. It’s a DC offset that can be dangerous to downstream components

 

I'm with you on this one, that's the only main reason I would like to get the new board, to be honest mine already shipped but it took a few months and I was not desperate, I just did not wanted to post that I will receive the new board soon, possibly next week.

[luisma]

and I imagine many others will receive it as well, I just don't know Vinshine's schedule for this but the new DACs of course are coming with it and yes we are delayed how much 2 weeks? based on Elan's assertion, but I don't think is nothing to worry about. IMO

[luisma]

17 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

Thank you 🍻

 

@matthias

The next one may get DSP-T V08 board. 😁

I have not made a comparison between NOS and OS yet. At the moment I only listen NOS with HQPlayer DSD 512. That is already an excellent sound.

Great, may I suggest you to try and compare dsd 512 which you are using vs PCM? I would very much appreciate your feedback. Your preferred filter, I use closed form and minring lp mostly. 

Thanks 

[luisma]

13 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

I hope this helps?

It helps a lot thank you for going through the test and reporting. I can't do 7EC at the moment 😞

 

[luisma]

Hi Alvin @alvin1118

 

I cannot use the Allo Bridge with the new DSP board, the Amanero board worked fine but the Allo Bridge Dietpi have the incorrect driver. While I already turned to Allo @Allo @ALLOsupport @Audio_Allo to figure out the driver issue I'm also asking you as you or Denafrips probably would know how to support the board on these devices. Do you know any Linux Dietpi etc. drivers that could be used?

 

Thanks