Denafrips R2R DAC (plays 512 DSD) reviewed as giant killer

[bodiebill]

I currently own a custom Lampizator DAC (somehing between a Lite 7 and a Big 7, to be precise: a Lite 7 with an extra rectifier tube) and only send DSD256 to it upsampled by HQPlayer embedded. The sound is wonderfully organic, analogue and dynamic.

 

Did anyone compare a similar setup to the Terminator? I am mainly interested in classical, and I remember someone saying that the Terminator is not necessarily best at that.

 

Still very interested after all the rave comments here and elsewhere...

[bodiebill]

Thanks. I will try for myself soon -- placed an order today for the Terminator... 🙂

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

Be sure to test PCM as well, most people who know what they are doing are using DSD like @StreamFidelity

but I have found in my system PCM brings it to another level of detail

I read somewhere (might be mistaken and if someone else could comment on this @Miska) that the R2R DA reconstruction happens when you feed PCM to the DAC, when you use DSD / SDM you go through a different conversion process inside the DAC using a different logic.

 

I sure will try PCM also. I have no absolute preference for DSD format-wise. The reason I am currently consistently upsampling everything to DSD (same parameters as @StreamFidelity) is that I prefer my Lampi's DSD circuit to its PCM one. I expect the Terminator's R2R PCM circuit to be something else.

[bodiebill]

Two questions:

 

(1) Does the usb input of the Terminator draw 5VDC current?

 

(2) I remember someone saying that he removed his ISO Regen as this had no benefits with the Terminator. Any other experiences that confirm this? (I am currently using PC => iFi iUSB3.0 => ISO Regen => Lampizator DAC with clear benefits.)

[bodiebill]

2 hours ago, StreamFidelity said:

@bodiebill 

 

Yes, the USB input unfortunately requires 5V. I hate little boxes that often make the sound worse than it improves. Ideally nothing in the signal path and short connections. I use JCAT USB Card FEMTO and a short (0.75m) USB cable (Audioquest Diamond). Great Sound! 

 

Thanks! I will experiment with all combinations (both, one and neither) of the ISO Regen and iFi iUSB3.0 boxes and use my ears to decide... Have to be patient until February I guess...

[bodiebill]

Can anyone advise on the best way to (after-factory) burn-in a new Terminator?

I am also asking this as I am not sure whether the PCM and DSD routes require separate burn-in.

[bodiebill]

3 hours ago, Ben-M said:

- Pink noise, white noise, brown noise.

- 500 hours. 

- PCM and DSD circuits are not the same, thus need to either be burned in separately if you're going to rotate or just go with the one you need firstly and then burn in the other one after you get to 500hrs on the first.

- Don't forget connecting the desired output as well. XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

 

Thanks, that is useful.

Quite a life task.

It does promote patience, especially in trying to find out my preferred circuit (PCM or DSD)...

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, Ben-M said:

XLR seems to be preferred. Me included. 

 

My amp does not have balanced inputs. In that case, is there any way to benefit from the Terminator's balanced outputs? Adapters? Or does that make no sense? 

[bodiebill]

deleted

[bodiebill]

Thanks @Ben-M @Dev @Miska

Useful stuff!

I will burn in 2 circuits with RCA and keep experimenting with balanced for later.

"Don't change everything at once" 🙂

[bodiebill]

On 1/6/2020 at 3:06 PM, StreamFidelity said:

@bodiebill 

Yes, the USB input unfortunately requires 5V.

 

Does it really require 5V? Or does it only use VBUS to sense a connection?

I am asking as in the latter case I could power an ISO Regen with 5V (converted to 3.3V by the Regen).

 

See:

 

[bodiebill]

17 minutes ago, StreamFidelity said:

 

This question has answered. 😉

 

ah thanks, I seemed to have missed Alvin's answer... so anything lower than 5VDC will apparently not function as a logic trigger...

[bodiebill]

Just curious to know who here have tried inserting a USB device (such as ISO Regen or iFi micro iUSB3.0) between the PC and the Terminator. And whether it positively influenced SQ or not...

[bodiebill]

8 hours ago, Ares2THX887 said:

 

IIUC the FIFO architecture of the Denafrips line pretty much eliminates all jitter. However, you might still notice an improvement by reducing interference from USB power. I am trying to accomplish this with an externally powered USB card like https://www.matrix-digi.com/en/products/333.html a quiet power supply, and a good USB cable. Regards

PS - I also like to dedicate a PCI channel to the USB card if possible XD

 

Thanks! I will try several options when I receive the Terminator...

[bodiebill]

This cable could be used to provide clean 5VDC to the USB VBUS:

https://www.audiophonics.fr/en/various-adapters/usb-b-adapter-cable-for-external-usb-a-power-supply-p-8389.html

Anyone tried this? 

[bodiebill]

Received the Terminator today, and just had a quick listen, cold out of the box.

 

Too early to judge the SQ, but first impressions:

- dark sounding

- bass!

- the ISO Regen still improves SQ

- I think I prefer to oversample first with HQPLayer embedded

- not sure yet whether to prefer upsampling PCM to PCM 384K or to DSD256 (with HQPlayer's EC modulator)

- also unsure about NOS vs OS, given the previous

- in any case the best PCM sound I have had: the last few years I upsampled everything to DSD as my Lampizator's PCM circuit is subpar compared to its DSD circuit

- For now I will hold on to my Lampi for comparison 

 

I should allow ample time to burn it in. For this I am using a playlist that mixes PCM and DSD, so both circuits are used.

 

I plan to report back in due time when the setup has matured.

[bodiebill]

@StreamFidelity  Thanks, will try! NOS makes sense if HQPlayer is doing the OS. To better judge the difference I will ask someone to push the (N)OS button a few times 🙂

[bodiebill]

4 hours ago, luisma said:

Congrats, be sure to try PCM and compare vs DSD

Try PCM with LNS15 and sinc-M,

and the poly long lp like @StreamFidelity recommended

 

Because I am so used to DSD I now force myself to listen to PCM for long stretches, not judging too soon. Although the first impression is obvious: PCM is chocolate and DSD is champagne, but that does not mean one is better than the other. I like both.

Never tried sinc-M before, interesting, I like it.

I could not find LNS15 however. Now using NS5 as dither.

 

I like the Terminator's versatility: so many options!

[bodiebill]

9 hours ago, luisma said:

That's on the last release, be sure you have it updated

Updated, and found it, thanks!

 

9 hours ago, luisma said:

I respect your comment, if you have a good computer capable of doing DSD at least 256 with EC modulators then DSD might be comparable or even better, but for lower end PCs, NUCs etc. PCM provides a clear advantage (and yes IMHO) over DSD, in the case of this specific DAC

I can already say that I still have a preference for DSD256 with ASDM7EC compared to PCM. This HQPlayer modulator is really something special. It seems a sweet spot with its airiness complementing the dark character of the Terminator. 

However this is not final as this afternoon I will have my ears syringed 🙂

[bodiebill]

7 hours ago, bodiebill said:

I can already say that I still have a preference for DSD256 with ASDM7EC compared to PCM.

... but have to admit that sinc-M with LNS15 and a whopping 1.536.000 comes close.

(Never could go higher than 384.000 before the Terminator arrived.)

[bodiebill]

When switching from DSD to PCM I often get a loud hiss (no music). I have to restart HQPlayer to play the PCM file. Any idea how this could be avoided?

[bodiebill]

  

On 3/7/2020 at 12:52 PM, luisma said:

So weird, that loud hiss only happened switching formats on the old amanero board, I have never experienced that specific hiss with the new board, although I don't switch formats that often using mostly PCM.

you could perfectly blow a tweeter if it is the same hiss I suspect,very annoying.

Be sure to keep HQP initial volume low - 14 or so so Everytime you switch filters or resolution etc and the DAC might not handshake properly at least the volume protects you.

 

You using NOS or OS?

 

@luisma, in reply to your post in the GentooPlayer thread:

 

I gave it some time, but it still occasionally happens when I switch from DSD to PCM. And indeed it is a loud and broad overwhelming hiss. I am using an analogue passive preamp (great DIY Stereo Coffee preamp by the way), and I am taking care.

 

Still experimenting with NOS (using HQPlayer as OS) vs OS setting on Terminator.

Yesterday I fed the Terminator with untouched source material and was impressed with the DAC's OS setting.

For PCM it can compete with HQPlayer upsampling into NOS.

 

@alvin1118: I read somewhere that the OS setting does not touch DSD. Does that mean that DSD64 will remain DSD64 when in OS? So for DSD NOS and OS have the same result?

 

[bodiebill]

Mainly sheds light on his own (changing) interests and resulting prejudices.

[bodiebill]

On 3/10/2020 at 11:15 AM, bodiebill said:

 

@alvin1118: I read somewhere that the OS setting does not touch DSD. Does that mean that DSD64 will remain DSD64 when in OS? So for DSD NOS and OS have the same result?

 

Alvin explained to me that for DSD, NOS/OS modes make no difference; in effect DSD is always treated as NOS.

Also for DSD, filter settings do not apply.

So OS/NOS and filter change only apply to PCM.

If you want to play DSD64 as DSD256 or DSD512, something like HQPlayer is needed.

[bodiebill]

6 minutes ago, luisma said:

Super annoying hiss to start with but again, to me, it never happened with the new board, my last firmware was the one at the end of Nov 2019, you received your terminator recently, it should come with the new firmware, but I would check just in case

 

Alvin has already confirmed that mine has the most recent firmware. Not sure why this happens... It does without exception when I switch from DSD to PCM. I can solve it by restarting HQPlayer first. Maybe I can ask Miska.