Schiit EITR

[pas]

25 minutes ago, clipper said:

I love the LPS-1.

 

I don't have one powering my iPurifier, because I already have 2 in the system (a relatively small headphone system that sits on my desk).  One LPS-1 powers the DC jack of an Allo USBridge, and the other powers an ISO REGEN.

 

So it's Ethernet from a computer (bridged connection) to USBridge to ISO REGEN to Eitr to Modi Multibit.  As much as I like the Eitr, I do think the ISO REGEN improves things.

 

I have tried powering the iPurifier with an LPS-1 (at times), and thought it was a big improvement over the iPower supply the iPurifier ships with.

The Iso Regen powered by the LPS-1 brings a cohesive foundation to the Eitr that is detailed, smooth, and powerful. The articulation in the bass lines is well delineated and relaxing to follow.

[Charente]

Part of the point of this thread was to prove (or dis-prove) the claim that nothing in front of the EITR makes any difference. I previously reported that the microRendu provided a small but worthwhile difference, particularly in soundstage depth in my setup, although I use it for other reasons as well. @pas's own impression with the ISO Regen is equally interesting. My conclusion was that there may to be something relating to the integrity of the USB signal fed into the EITR, since the power issues 'should' be well catered for in the EITR. I guess the same argument applies equally to Gen5 upgraded Schiit DACs.

 

I did consider including the ISO Regen but I am somewhat loath to put yet another box and its accompanying, potentially noise inducing, SMPS in the chain ... hence I focused instead on improving the mains supply to all the units. I argue that mains 'before' the EITR has a significant affect. More to follow about that !

[Speed Racer]

9 minutes ago, Charente said:

Part of the point of this thread was to prove (or dis-prove) the claim that nothing in front of the EITR makes any difference. I previously reported that the microRendu provided a small but worthwhile difference, particularly in soundstage depth in my setup, although I use it for other reasons as well. @pas's own impression with the ISO Regen is equally interesting. My conclusion was that there may to be something relating to the integrity of the USB signal fed into the EITR, since the power issues 'should' be well catered for in the EITR. I guess the same argument applies equally to Gen5 upgraded Schiit DACs.

 

I did consider including the ISO Regen but I am somewhat loath to put yet another box and its accompanying, potentially noise inducing, SMPS in the chain ... hence I focused instead on improving the mains supply to all the units. I argue that mains 'before' the EITR has a significant affect. More to follow about that !

 

The road to Hell is paved with decrapifiers being decrapified by other decrapifiers! 

[Charente]

[Lebouwsky]

49 minutes ago, Speed Racer said:

 

The road to Hell is paved with decrapifiers being decrapified by other decrapifiers! 

Lol

[Lebouwsky]

1 hour ago, Charente said:

Part of the point of this thread was to prove (or dis-prove) the claim that nothing in front of the EITR makes any difference.

I think we can agree that the claim is not true, since several users (including myself) have reported an improvement in sound by improving the chain before the Eitr. Therefore I would like to share one more observation I did in sound improvement, done in the chain before it.

 

My sms200 (feeding the Eitr) used to operatie in mpd/dlna mode. Music was stored on a Nas, later on a laptop running minimserver. From there I experimented with HQplayer, upsampling the files to 24/192, where the sms200 was operating as a so called Network Audio Adapter or NAA. This is an option that is both supported by HQplayer as the sms200. 

 

Anyway, this provided a huge improvement  in soundstage and lushness (forgive my non audiophile descriptions). It just sounded better, more relaxed but engaging at the same time. This eventually led to my   current Windows 10 low power passive cooled dedicated music server. It has dual nics which are bridged. OS is optimised by Fidelizer and there are so many potential upgrades for this server in the pipeline. The server itself costed me 150 euro's second hand. 

 

I don't know what causes the improvement. It might be the upsampling, or the filters or maybe that the heavy lifting is now taken away from the sms200. Fidelizer optimised the OS for that specific task and the improvement is not small. So yes the server is a component that benefits from improvements.

 

Strongly recommended, even with the Eitr.

[Charente]

@Lebouwsky You have been busy !!! Interesting comments about the server setup you have.

[rickca]

2 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

This eventually led to my   current Windows 10 low power passive cooled dedicated music server. It has dual nics which are bridged.

Are you running HQPlayer and doing your upsampling on this machine?  If so, I guess upsampling to 24/192 doesn't take much CPU with the filter you prefer.

[Lebouwsky]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Are you running HQPlayer and doing your upsampling on this machine?  If so, I guess upsampling to 24/192 doesn't take much CPU with the filter you prefer.

Yes HQplayer does the upsampling. The server contains a cheap and lightweight Intel celleron j1900 based itx motherboard (asrock q1900-itx) with only 4gb ram. The filter settings in HQplayer  I use are almost identical to the ones Miska from HQplayer advices to use for best results in pcm upsampling, so no comprimises are made here.

 

The cpu peaks to 25% max, ram to 45% max, but this has more to do with Windows 10 background services then with HQplayer. I will try to lower these parameters even further down by killing these background processes using Audiophile Optimizer or other scripts. This may sound complex but it's not.

 

The motherboard requires 12 volts. Something like a pico psu makes it possible to connect psu's externaly.I experimented with different low budget external switching power supplies ranging from 100 to my current 30watt. This 30watt psu seems more then enough, which is all I wanted to know  before investing in an expensive high quality grade power supply. It will be the Sotm sps500, which is rated at 50 watt.

 

My point is that hqplayer is of excellent value (free trial period) and this software is also very easy to setup, even in NAA mode. And if you don't care about DSD upsampling (very cpu hungry) like I don't, a small footprint computer is sufficiënt. This is cheap in both investment and usage (I keep mine on 24/7). The server can be equipes with a large ssd, which makes it a NAS replacement.

 

Last but not least, the small footprint reduces electrical noise and makes passive cooling possible and therefore the mechanical noise zero to none. The only high frequency noice I hear right now comes from the SSD, but I've got some affortable possible solutions for that.

 

If anyone is interested in more details, feel free to ask or PM me. And don't hesitate to experiment, an old laptop will do to get you started. A clean w10 installation is strongly adviced by the way. But w10 can be downloaded for free these days. Activation can be done later (if one feels the need to do so)

[Charente]

@Lebouwsky This seems like a reasonable low-cost, dedicated alternative setup to a MacMini ... which are typically much more expensive IME. 

[Solid-State]

anybody who knows when next batch will be available in Europe again

[Charente]

@TubeMan Probably best to email Schiit distributors in the UK and Holland for a forecast. They seem to have differing stock committments IME.

[Lebouwsky]

https://www.schiit-europe.com/

[Charente]

Since getting the Balanced Power Supply (BPS), I have been experimenting with placement of the SMPS's I have as part of my setup. This was originally spurred on by @Abtr 's comment quite a few pages ago, which motivated me to try a BPS in the first place. The initial results I got from the BPS were very notable and welcome and I wrote up my views on that at the time.

 

I currently have 3 SMPS ... for the WD NAS, Netgear Switch and UpTone LPS-1. Through trial and error, I found that the iFi iPower (powering the LPS-1) was a key culprit in polluting  the AC supply to everything else. So, this has been relegated to a mains socket on its own, outside of the BPS. Equally, the other 2 SMPS were also guilty to some extent but I didn't want them sharing the socket that the iPower was using. So, I connected the other two SMPS to the battery side of an APC 900Pro UPS (used for the iMac in the same room). 

 

The rest of the gear chain (MacMini, EITR, GMB and MJ2) shares a strip connected to the BPS in glorious isolation.

 

Listening to some of my reference test albums, the improvement that the EITR delivers has been enhanced further to a significant degree by this power setup. The clarity of the instruments and soundstage depth & ambient quality is startlingly good. One particular album that had me sit up was 'Revisiting Grapelli' by Matias Levy, a wonderful alternative jazz performance with some amazing violin, cello and bass. The depth of detail of the effects played (and deliberately misplayed) on the strings was palpable. I'm not usually given to superlatives but this is truly superb and a great test of what the EITR/GMB pairing is capable of.

 

I don't know if my power setup makes sense from an EE point of view, but just using my ears and listening to music I now feel I have the optimal set up for ALL my audio gear, with what I have available.

 

The BPS, being system independent (together with a considered placement of any SMPS's) has become my favourite tweak ... a close run thing with the EITR for this crown.

 

Where do I go next ? I'm not sure there is much more I want to do with the main system. I did consider an audio optimised AQVOX switch but they are quite a price for an unknown, possibly small, SQ return in my system. Perhaps even a Schiit Gadget ? However, I think I'll focus on the headphones first ... something a bit more neutral than the HD650 ... perhaps the new Mr. Speakers Aeon Open ?

[Charente]

AS a footnote to the above, and in the interest of fairplay, this thread reviewed a number of SMPS vs LPS's ... the iFi iPower measured very well on its DC output in comparison.

 

 

[Speed Racer]

But, as you have found out, DC output in not the whole ball game!

[Charente]

@Speed Racer Indeed so !! ... quite a revelation to me.

[Lebouwsky]

10 hours ago, Charente said:

Since getting the Balanced Power Supply (BPS), I have been experimenting with placement of the SMPS's I have as part of my setup. This was originally spurred on by @Abtr 's comment quite a few pages ago, which motivated me to try a BPS in the first place. The initial results I got from the BPS were very notable and welcome and I wrote up my views on that at the time.

 

I currently have 3 SMPS ... for the WD NAS, Netgear Switch and UpTone LPS-1. Through trial and error, I found that the iFi iPower (powering the LPS-1) was a key culprit in polluting  the AC supply to everything else. So, this has been relegated to a mains socket on its own, outside of the BPS. Equally, the other 2 SMPS were also guilty to some extent but I didn't want them sharing the socket that the iPower was using. So, I connected the other two SMPS to the battery side of an APC 900Pro UPS (used for the iMac in the same room). 

 

The rest of the gear chain (MacMini, EITR, GMB and MJ2) shares a strip connected to the BPS in glorious isolation.

 

Listening to some of my reference test albums, the improvement that the EITR delivers has been enhanced further to a significant degree by this power setup. The clarity of the instruments and soundstage depth & ambient quality is startlingly good. One particular album that had me sit up was 'Revisiting Grapelli' by Matias Levy, a wonderful alternative jazz performance with some amazing violin, cello and bass. The depth of detail of the effects played (and deliberately misplayed) on the strings was palpable. I'm not usually given to superlatives but this is truly superb and a great test of what the EITR/GMB pairing is capable of.

 

I don't know if my power setup makes sense from an EE point of view, but just using my ears and listening to music I now feel I have the optimal set up for ALL my audio gear, with what I have available.

 

The BPS, being system independent (together with a considered placement of any SMPS's) has become my favourite tweak ... a close run thing with the EITR for this crown.

 

Where do I go next ? I'm not sure there is much more I want to do with the main system. I did consider an audio optimised AQVOX switch but they are quite a price for an unknown, possibly small, SQ return in my system. Perhaps even a Schiit Gadget ? However, I think I'll focus on the headphones first ... something a bit more neutral than the HD650 ... perhaps the new Mr. Speakers Aeon Open ?

Great write up @Charente and thanks for sharing.

[Charente]

There is quite an industry of threads on CA devoted to the effects of SMPS and switches, etc. ... some of which unfortunately goes right over my head in its detail ... apologies to the contributors but its horses for courses ! 

 

At least the EITR's wallwart is a relatively straightforward AC step down transformer, and not an AC/DC supply, which applies to all of the smaller Schiit products ... something I appreciate with the marque.

[jaaptina]

Question: I've got a microRendu with LPS-1. I tried a Singxer F1 but it didn't sound as good as the USB input of the Job INTegrated. I would like to see if the EITR sounds at least as good as the USB input of my amp. However I'm afraid EITR destroys the mains isolation I get from LPS-1. EITR could introduce new noise in the chain. Does it? 

[Charente]

@jaaptina What do you have as the energiser SMPS for the LPS-1 ? It may possibly be the main cause of AC pollution to other units, as I have found out. As far as the EITR is concerned, I refer you to the second para of my post just above yours.

[jaaptina]

9 hours ago, Charente said:

@jaaptina What do you have as the energiser SMPS for the LPS-1 ? It may possibly be the main cause of AC pollution to other units, as I have found out. As far as the EITR is concerned, I refer you to the second para of my post just above yours.

That's what I mean. The microRendu with LPS-1 is isolated from mains. Introducing EITR with SMPS  is a breach of the isolation. 

[pas]

6 minutes ago, jaaptina said:

That's what I mean. The microRendu with LPS-1 is isolated from mains. Introducing EITR with SMPS  is a breach of the isolation. 

From Schiit's web site.

 

Linear, Low-Noise Power Supply—Built In
You won't need any "linear supplies" or other "add-ons" to improve Eitr—like all of our stackable products, we've built in a linear supply with multiple stages of ultra-low-noise voltage regulators. From the included 1.5A, 6VAC wall-wart to the output, there are no switching supplies in Eitr.

[Charente]

@jaaptina ... As @pas pointed out the EITR power supply is NOT an SMPS but an AC step-down transformer. The only reason it's an external unit is because it wouldn't fit into the EITR case. All your audio units will have a similar step-down transformer built in.

 

The isolation that mR gives is for the DC on USB and not AC. The polluting effect on AC is also profound, typically caused by AC/DC SMPS and this could affect all your other units connected to the AC mains. Hence why I isolated the AC supply to my audio units from everything else. Even then, there is the possibility of leakage current through the Ethernet switch which may end up in the mR.... this is all subject of many threads on CA.

 

During my experiments, I found putting the EITR PS on the same strip as an SMPS deteriorated the sound quality and is why I put it on the BPS.

[Lebouwsky]

Yesterday I recieved and installed 2 uspcb’s. One of them is a 90 degrees version connecting the Sotm sms200 to the regen. The other connects the regen to the Eitr. Because uspcb’s are hard usb adapters, the eitr disapeared behind the sms200 together with the regen. It has become a chain of 3 devices in line in my rack. I keep the whole digital chain on 24/7, so it’s not a problem. The 2 uspcb’s replaced a normal usb hard adapter that came with the regen and a 1 meter long Supra usb cable.

 

I expected some subtle improvement at max. But this is a real upgrade in my audio system. The overall presentation has become more solid, thicker, as my wife said. The seperation of instruments has become better, especially at higher volumes. Bass has become dryer and presented with more grip or fundament. It’s hard to describe what it does to the mids. More neutral and less colouration to the warmer spectrum comes to mind.

 

There’s a small switch on the uspcb where you can disable the usb power. Both are “on”, but will experiment next week what “off” will do.

 

Overall, for 45 euro’s a piece, this is a very nice tweak, especially if you’d take a look at what cable upgrades can cost. Most cables brought me a shift to the left or right, but hardly an upgrade.

 

These are, highly recommanded, thanks for the tip fellow enthousiasts. Have a great weekend.

 

cheers.