Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[Miska]

30 minutes ago, fgribas said:

Hello, can someone confirm if it's a bug or I'm a lucky one with a hardware problem?

 

Does your Distortion Compensate setting remains ON if you power off and power on the unit?

On my device, all the settings are retained (input, filter, volumes), expect for Distortion Compensate, which always comes back to OFF.
 

 

Yes it stays enabled. Do you have the latest firmware?

[fgribas]

10 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes it stays enabled. Do you have the latest firmware?

 

Yes, I have 2.12 

 

All the other settings are retained, that's strange.

 

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, fgribas said:

 

Yes, I have 2.12 

 

All the other settings are retained, that's strange.

 

 

Are you trying to use anything else than "User" as "Audio Quality" setting? Because the two presets override all other settings if you touch it.

 

[Fella55]

I powered mine off earlier today and Distortion Compensation was still Enabled when I checked it just now.

 

Also running 2.12. 

[fgribas]

Thank your for you report guys. At least 2 other users from another forum confirmed the same problem.

 

But I have some good news!

 

1- Pro-ject support kindly helped me to fix that. I have contacted them through the support site using Bermuda as my country (thanks @left channel for the tip!) They answered my message 15 hours later with the solution. Much better than my expectations.

 

2- It's not a firmware bug nor a hardware problem. I was another victim of the misleading user manual. The thing is that we need to push the volume knob to confirm the selection of the Distortion Compensate setting. I was changing the setting and pressing Menu again.

 

I replied them saying that an update to the user manual would be nice, as I was not the only one that faced that problem. I indeed remember someone posting about the misleading user interaction with the configuration menus some time ago. 

 

The sound I get from this DAC is amazing, specially by upsampling to DSD512 with HQPlayer. Great price/performance ratio!

[Jamesroy]

Do you have any upsampling tips for A+

[Fella55]

OK, experiencing my first real problem. I have downloaded some DSD test tracks, as well as some MQA ones from

 

Here and Here

 

I don't have any problems with the MQA versions, but when I play the DSD 64 track, for the first 10 seconds I get a harsh static. Same with both tracks that I tried.

 

The files are stored on my Synology NAS, and I use a ROCK (i3 NUC) which is connected directly to the S2 via USB. Using roon for playback.

 

I've tried turning off Distortion Compensation, and changing the filter (not tried them all yet), but nothing changes. After 10 seconds the static is gone and the track seems normal.

 

Anyone else have a similar setup and experiencing the same?

 

Thanks

[left channel]

3 hours ago, fgribas said:

Thank your for you report guys. At least 2 other users from another forum confirmed the same problem.

 

But I have some good news!

 

1- Pro-ject support kindly helped me to fix that. I have contacted them through the support site using Bermuda as my country (thanks @left channel for the tip!) They answered my message 15 hours later with the solution. Much better than my expectations.

 

2- It's not a firmware bug nor a hardware problem. I was another victim of the misleading user manual. The thing is that we need to push the volume knob to confirm the selection of the Distortion Compensate setting. I was changing the setting and pressing Menu again.

 

I replied them saying that an update to the user manual would be nice, as I was not the only one that faced that problem. I indeed remember someone posting about the misleading user interaction with the configuration menus some time ago. 

 

The sound I get from this DAC is amazing, specially by upsampling to DSD512 with HQPlayer. Great price/performance ratio!

 

@fgribas thanks for the report! Apparently some of us pushed the volume in to confirm our Distortion Compensation settings, some didn't, and it's all trial-and-error because as you point out manual says nothing about that.

The manual needs a lot of work. All they've done so far is remove the out-of-date DSD playback section, without updating the separate "Computerconfiguration for DSD playback" PDF on the product web page. That one still contains old and incorrect instructions.

[fgribas]

1 hour ago, Jamesroy said:

Do you have any upsampling tips for A+

Sorry, not using A+

 

All I'm listening to is Tidal Hifi in Roon, upsampling with HQPlayer.

 

Some months ago I bought a Macbook to use A+ believing it would give me superior SQ but got pretty disappointed. I even did the hack on MacOS Sierra to enable DirectMode (https://audirvana.com/?p=4048) but still worse than my Windows environment.

 

Back in the days, macOS used to be (or at least was considered) the best OS for audio. The scenario has changed. A properly optimized Windows with ASIO sounds much better to me. Sold my pretty brand new Macbook  

 

Still to try Linux  when my miniPC arrives (it will be a NAA).

 

I heard A+ will be released for Windows. I might give it a shot, but I already paid lifetime subscription for Roon + license for HQPlayer: unbeatable combo for me.

[gahabana]

6 hours ago, Fella55 said:

OK, experiencing my first real problem. I have downloaded some DSD test tracks, as well as some MQA ones from

 

Here and Here

 

I don't have any problems with the MQA versions, but when I play the DSD 64 track, for the first 10 seconds I get a harsh static. Same with both tracks that I tried.

 

The files are stored on my Synology NAS, and I use a ROCK (i3 NUC) which is connected directly to the S2 via USB. Using roon for playback.

 

I've tried turning off Distortion Compensation, and changing the filter (not tried them all yet), but nothing changes. After 10 seconds the static is gone and the track seems normal.

 

Anyone else have a similar setup and experiencing the same?

 

Thanks

hi @Fella55,

as for DSD playback problems - yes, it is a firmware bug. You are using DSD Native ... DSD128 or 256 or 512 do not have that problem and even DSD64 only when switching from 44.1PCM to DSD64 and from 176.4kHz PCM to DSD64. 

Workaround is to use DSD via DoP. Yes will use bit more USB bandwidth to talk to DAC but apart from that no big deal. And in that case you will max out at DSD256 can not do DSD512 via DOP. ... or you leave DSD Native and upsample all DSD content (via custom upsampler config in Roon) from DSD64 toi DSD128. 

 

would be nice if Project could be bothered to update the firmware. 

 

ps. these issues do not happen when one is using Windows drivers and on Mac DSD Native is not supported anyhow,

[Fella55]

So, as directly connected via USB from ROCK to S2  then I'm assuming bandwidth won't be an issue? In this instance, how best to configure DSD over PCM? Is this via roon? And if this is the case will this affect my other streaming options?

[Fella55]

59 minutes ago, gahabana said:

DSD128 or 256 or 512 do not have that problem and even DSD64 only when switching from 44.1PCM to DSD64 and from 176.4kHz PCM to DSD64.

I experience the issue regardless of what tracking was playing before. 

[Fella55]

Bug Fixes and Improvements in ROCK Build 148:

• Fix for SMB shares bug
• Improved Native DSD support for DACs connected over USB

 

Back in a bit!

[Fella55]

Ok, update didn't fix the static problem with DSD 64. However I changed this setting in roon and the problem has gone.

 

 

Not sure if this has any impact on SQ?

[left channel]

@Fella55 I'm told that based on verifiable measurements there is no audible difference between DoP and native DSD. I certainly can't hear a difference myself. Your results depend on how well Roon has implemented this feature, of course.

[gahabana]

On 08/02/2018 at 5:22 PM, left channel said:

@Fella55 I'm told that based on verifiable measurements there is no audible difference between DoP and native DSD. I certainly can't hear a difference myself. Your results depend on how well Roon has implemented this feature, of course.

@left channel & @Fella55 - i agree - the ONLY benefit of native DSD vs DSDviaDoP is that DoP uses little bit more USB bandwidth then native mode. So the only downside is (until firmware has fixed the Native DSD64 bug after PCM44.1 or 176.4kHz) is that you can not use DSD512 via DoP ... and have to do it native. And if you do that all the time (upsampling to Native DSD512) - firmware bug is not obvios as with DSD128/256/512 there is no hiss/static problems.

So kinda very irritating and obviouslty a flaw, but for 99% situations, it is avoidable.

 

[Miska]

I have to admit I didn't encounter that problem ever until I specifically tested it out. Mostly because of my use cases:

 

1) Play YouTube from browser -> 44.1/48k PCM

2) Play music from HQPlayer -> DSD512 (or sometimes to 768/32 for testing)

 

So I never had quick switch from PCM to DSD64 until I tried it out.

 

 

[Rocky Bennett]

Hello Everybody,

I plan on purchasing this little DAC to use simply as a computer USB DAC. It would be replacing a very old and cheap Music Streamer II + that I have hooked up to my computer now https://www.needledoctor.com/HRT-Music-Streamer-II-Plus-D-A-Converter

 

Would this Pre Box S2 be an improvement in my sound? I don't listen to streaming music, just music files but I want to change my DAC just because...

 

I have read much of this thread and I am not sure that this DAC is "ready." I must say that this thread certainly has been lively, but I am still undecided. I live in the USA but I work in retail so I am on a strict budget. I do not have any DSD files yet, but I love the sound of my SACDs and I would like to try out computer based DSD files.

 

Thanks in advance for any comments that might help me decide.

 

Rocky Bennett

[MagnusH]

It will be a very noticeable sound quality upgrade, and unless you switch between MQA and non-MQA the DAC works flawlessly (at least for me). You should try to upgrade to 2.12, version 2.10 has some problems and is likely the one you get when buying the DAC.

 

Also, if possible, feed some good power to it (external 5v linear power is best). 

[Rocky Bennett]

Thank you MagnusH. I am up in the air right now so I will probably start a new thread related to my decision making process.

[Jamesroy]

How do I get out of this post. I tried the button at top "Ignore this post" but still getting replies?

 

[left channel]

@Rocky Bennett looking forward to that discussion. IMHO the product is 99% ready, and although Pro-Ject seems only 50% ready to support anything like it, you'll be fine with the help you'll get here on this forum. As you've doubtless read here, you should update to the latest firmware (PM me for that), don't use the Optimal Transient filter in 2.12, and add an external PSU. Then with a mainstream setup, you ought to be able to sit back and enjoy the music. If you want to push the technical envelope of platforms, formats, upsampling, and etc. further into territory where Pro-Ject may never go, I'm sure others here on this forum will be happy to help with that too.

[left channel]

Just now, Jamesroy said:

How do I get out of this post. I tried the button at top "Ignore this post" but still getting replies?

 

 

@The Computer Audiophile can you please help him?

[The Computer Audiophile]

In every email notification you receive there is a link to “unfollow” the topic. Please use that to stop notifications.  

[asdf1000]

On 11/02/2018 at 8:30 AM, Miska said:

I have to admit I didn't encounter that problem ever until I specifically tested it out. Mostly because of my use cases:

 

1) Play YouTube from browser -> 44.1/48k PCM

2) Play music from HQPlayer -> DSD512 (or sometimes to 768/32 for testing)

 

So I never had quick switch from PCM to DSD64 until I tried it out.

 

 

 

How do you find the digital volume control work with this DAC's 2 x ESS chips used?

 

I read Archimago wrote this, regarding the Oppo Sonica DAC:

 

"These days, with 32-bit DACs, a -30dB reduction to hit a comfortable listening level would only amount to 5-bits worth of attenuation any way. With a high resolution DAC like this, I'm happy to stick with digital volume control."

 

http://archimago.blogspot.com.au/2017/06/measurements-oppo-sonica-dac-ess-sabre.html

 

I know it's advertised as being a 32 bit input chip, so I assume it's 32 bit digital volume control?