Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[Armin22]

Fella55,

this reflects my personel situation: Playing Tidal via PC and waiting for Roon Nuc. Acording to Pro-ject, the Prebox S2 digital is Roon approved

 

Cheers

[gkarkalis]

Box is coming back.i dont like the sound also.boomy bass and very moody with my aktimate mini’s.lack of excitement and boring sound.+ no support from pro-ject.i’mgoing back to trusted ifi.

[Fella55]

11 minutes ago, Armin22 said:

Fella55,

this reflects my personel situation: Playing Tidal via PC and waiting for Roon Nuc. Acording to Pro-ject, the Prebox S2 digital is Roon approved

 

Cheers

 

Thanks @Armin22

 

Are you using MQA via Tidal and are you experiencing any of the issues described by others in this thread? 

 

[Armin22]

Maybe I'm not sinsible enough for those discribed isssues, but my S2 runs perfect and displays me wether I let the first step done by Tidal or if I let do the S2 all the work. If Tidal does the first step, MQA is displayed with a different color dot biside the MQA. The the S2 upsamples to the highest multiple Frequency. Both situations works absolute smooth. With 2.10 and 2.12.

You have to realize that I'm an absolute analogue guy and using digital like that: hearing a new song- Shazam it. Right back in my car, I start my Tidal and play the Shazamed record via Tidal on my Mercedes Sounssytem. If it is good enough, it get a like and will be played on my music system at home. If I still like it then, I open my JPC (A German Online Record dealer)Accound and buy the vinyl if possible.

My interest in Roon is: Sold for a number of years Meridian Sooloos as sales rep. I never lost the people behind Roon out of sight. Now, I'm waiting for the Roon Nuc to integrate my NAS with a lot of music 16 aswell as 24 bit into my sound experience. Having multiple choices to play around. I've tested Roon  app on my mac without any problems via the S-2!

cheers

Armin

 

[MagnusH]

32 minutes ago, gkarkalis said:

Box is coming back.i dont like the sound also.boomy bass and very moody with my aktimate mini’s.lack of excitement and boring sound.+ no support from pro-ject.i’mgoing back to trusted ifi.

I don't think a DAC can create boomy bass even if it wanted to, and this DAC certainly does not. You need to look into speakers or room acoustic to fix that problem. Seems to be a lot of uninformed posts here lately :-(

 

Its a very neutral DAC, with high amount of details. Some people don't like that and prefer more colored sound, which is fine. Its also a $400 DAC and can't compare to new high-end DACs, but according to me and most of what I have read it compares very favorable with most DACs <$1000

 

My S2 works flawlessly with ASIO drivers and 2.12 firmware, but I don't use MQA so that mess does not affect me. Btw, its MQA that supplies the MQA code for DACs, so the problem might be (and likely is) the responsibility of MQA.

[sebassie]

When altering settings on my S2 they are not stored. Can someone tell me how to store a setting after altering it?

[Fella55]

38 minutes ago, Armin22 said:

Maybe I'm not sinsible enough for those discribed isssues, but my S2 runs perfect and displays me wether I let the first step done by Tidal or if I let do the S2 all the work. If Tidal does the first step, MQA is displayed with a different color dot biside the MQA. The the S2 upsamples to the highest multiple Frequency. Both situations works absolute smooth. With 2.10 and 2.12.

You have to realize that I'm an absolute analogue guy and using digital like that: hearing a new song- Shazam it. Right back in my car, I start my Tidal and play the Shazamed record via Tidal on my Mercedes Sounssytem. If it is good enough, it get a like and will be played on my music system at home. If I still like it then, I open my JPC (A German Online Record dealer)Accound and buy the vinyl if possible.

My interest in Roon is: Sold for a number of years Meridian Sooloos as sales rep. I never lost the people behind Roon out of sight. Now, I'm waiting for the Roon Nuc to integrate my NAS with a lot of music 16 aswell as 24 bit into my sound experience. Having multiple choices to play around. I've tested Roon  app on my mac without any problems via the S-2!

cheers

Armin

 

Again, thank you @Armin22, I find this very reassuring as I will be using the S2 in a very similar way. I don't have vinyl, but may add this in future. I'm looking to replace the streaming I currently do on my Oppo BDP-103 and Media Go App. This app hasn't been updated for nearly 3 years and the Tidal interface is so out of date and doesn't sync properly anymore. It's fine from the PC but I'd prefer to have a setup which I don't have to have a computer on. So planning the ROCK to S2 setup as described before and use Roon. 

[left channel]

3 hours ago, gkarkalis said:

I’m using it with ifi iusb3 nano.for power and data wich is better than a hub.the same strange behaviour.thanks for your sugestion.

 

I would still put a hub between the Touch and the iUSB3, just to see what happens. Not pushing you to keep the DAC, just curious.

[left channel]

3 hours ago, Fella55 said:

I have one of these on order. Slightly worried that the latest firmware has been pulled from the website. What version is it likely to be shipped with? 

 

@left channel are you still happy to share 2.12?

 

I'm hoping that with the correct setup it should be problem free. Looking to connect it to my PC via USB for use with Tidal initially. Then I have a NUC on order which I'm going to trial Roon with ROCK. I assume I can also connect the USB directly to ROCK? 

 

Thanks

 

I'll PM you with a download link. I've no idea what it's shipping with now, and I'm willing to bet there are still units with the oldest firmware out there in some retail channels, but 2.12 takes care of all the bugs we know of except the filter issue that arises after playing an MQA track. Some users are still experiencing MQA dropouts, but I am not. If you don't use MQA — and personally I could live without it — then you'll be done at 2.12. We hope. Can't help with the NUC ROCK question but I see others have answered.

[left channel]

2 hours ago, sebassie said:

When altering settings on my S2 they are not stored. Can someone tell me how to store a setting after altering it?

 

It should remember everything even after being completely powered off. Last filters, last volume levels, everything. You may have a defective unit.

[sebassie]

1 hour ago, left channel said:

 

It should remember everything even after being completely powered off. Last filters, last volume levels, everything. You may have a defective unit.

Thanks, I will check on that

[gkarkalis]

3 hours ago, MagnusH said:

I don't think a DAC can create boomy bass even if it wanted to, and this DAC certainly does not. You need to look into speakers or room acoustic to fix that problem. Seems to be a lot of uninformed posts here lately :-(

 

Its a very neutral DAC, with high amount of details. Some people don't like that and prefer more colored sound, which is fine. Its also a $400 DAC and can't compare to new high-end DACs, but according to me and most of what I have read it compares very favorable with most DACs <$1000

 

My S2 works flawlessly with ASIO drivers and 2.12 firmware, but I don't use MQA so that mess does not affect me. Btw, its MQA that supplies the MQA code for DACs, so the problem might be (and likely is) the responsibility of MQA.

Ifi dacs worked perfectly with no boomy bass.very controled.i cant say that this dac is very detailed compared to ifi idac2 i tried.i fibd it boring and univolving...

[left channel]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I think mistake many hardware companies make is that they think bringing products like this to market is just like bringing yet another analog device to the market. But of course it is not like that... Any modern thing will have bit of firmware/software that will need maintenance and they need to be prepared for that. It is not one-shot thing one contracts at bulk price. It is an ongoing effort.

 

Quite a lot of companies will need to realize doing software (firmware) involves quite a bit of constant effort. Audio is not anymore plain hardware. Software is not like hardware component you just drop-in and forget.

 

This is a very good product, but obviously nobody thought about maintenance.

 

Their concepts of firmware and support are certainly naive, but let's not forget that behind their high-concept modern hardware designs is a low-cost manufacturing partner in another country cutting corners on everything from the BOM to the user manual.

The first production run used capacitors that did not meet the designer's specs, and he advised everyone to return those for replacement. Then with that straightened out some units arrived with one capacitor missing, and again we were advised to return those. Then the capacitors changed again, to a different part within the same series but which one user more knowledgeable than me insists are inferior. By that point the designer had stopped responding to us.

Some units were delivered without CDs or download instructions. The original user manual was a cut-and-paste hack job with errors and outdated information, and to fix it all they did was erase one section and leave the rest. The separate DSD playback instructions PDF remains out-of-date and incorrect. And so on. Throughout I have been patiently trying to help, but clearly the so-called support manager wishes we would all just go away.

[Miska]

41 minutes ago, left channel said:

Their concepts of firmware and support are certainly naive, but let's not forget that behind their high-concept modern hardware designs is a low-cost manufacturing partner in another country cutting corners on everything from the BOM to the user manual.

 

Yeah, that is their choice for doing things...

 

42 minutes ago, left channel said:

Some units were delivered without CDs or download instructions. The original user manual was a cut-and-paste hack job with errors and outdated information, and to fix it all they did was erase one section and leave the rest. The separate DSD playback instructions PDF remains out-of-date and incorrect. And so on. Throughout I have been patiently trying to help, but clearly the so-called support manager wishes we would all just go away.

 

Low cost comes with a price...

 

But maybe they'll learn.

[wushuliu]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I think mistake many hardware companies make is that they think bringing products like this to market is just like bringing yet another analog device to the market. But of course it is not like that... Any modern thing will have bit of firmware/software that will need maintenance and they need to be prepared for that. It is not one-shot thing one contracts at bulk price. It is an ongoing effort.

 

Quite a lot of companies will need to realize doing software (firmware) involves quite a bit of constant effort. Audio is not anymore plain hardware. Software is not like hardware component you just drop-in and forget.

 

This is a very good product, but obviously nobody thought about maintenance.

 

It's not a mistake when it comes to components like these. It's a deliberate business decision: do you hire more people to develop and support the software for these products or do you contract out that support maybe with follow up fixes for major bugs and move on to the next product cycle? Of course you're going to pick the latter. You'll save a lot of money and the ratio of complaints outside of niche forums won't be enough to really affect sales.

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, wushuliu said:

 

It's not a mistake when it comes to components like these. It's a deliberate business decision: do you hire more people to develop and support the software for these products or do you contract out that support maybe with follow up fixes for major bugs and move on to the next product cycle? Of course you're going to pick the latter. You'll save a lot of money and the ratio of complaints outside of niche forums won't be enough to really affect sales.

I agree with this concept.  I also don't understand concept of schiit being able to offer upgrades in same box...when product is older or needing updates, i would just sell and buy a new product.  I don't like the idea of being tied to just one product either..i want choices when new features or technical advances are made...I have no problem buying and selling....jmo, but i see the flip side as well...just not my avenue.

[left channel]

2 hours ago, beerandmusic said:

I also don't understand concept of schiit being able to offer upgrades in same box

 

Schiit is an electronics company learning to make turntables.

 

Pro-Ject is a turntable company learning to make schiit.

 

 

[Nihilnisibene]

The discussions have turned somewhat hateful of late. I still feel the product is pretty good and the sound when streaming Tidal anything but dull.

Customer support is lacking. Reminds me a little bit of the way Nikon managed to destroy their in part technically advanced 1 camera series through inept marketing and clueless pricing. Nevertheless -until I find opportunity to upgrade -listening through an Aries streamer I find this a rather satisfying product. 

[beerandmusic]

4 minutes ago, Nihilnisibene said:

The discussions have turned somewhat hateful of late. I still feel the product is pretty good and the sound when streaming Tidal anything but dull.

Customer support is lacking. Reminds me a little bit of the way Nikon managed to destroy their in part technically advanced 1 camera series through inept marketing and clueless pricing. Nevertheless -until I find opportunity to upgrade -listening through an Aries streamer I find this a rather satisfying product. 

i am sure the pro-ject sounds superb, especially for it's price point!

 

[left channel]

11 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

i am sure the pro-ject sounds superb, especially for it's price point!

 

 

It offers decent performance, but as I've said from the beginning it doesn't sound like a high-end product.

The headphone amp sounds neutral, crisp, and some might say cold. I prefer a warmer and richer sound.

 

The DAC to me sounds a bit too reference, too digital, and less smooth than my AKM-based DACs.

 

The MQA, DSD, and filtering features were more than making up for any of my personal preferences. When they worked.

 

16 minutes ago, Nihilnisibene said:

Customer support is lacking.

 

Yes that was the last straw for me. Not cold sound. Cold shoulder.

[beerandmusic]

2 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

It offers decent performance, but as I've said from the beginning it doesn't sound like a high-end product.

The headphone amp sounds neutral, crisp, and some might say cold. I prefer a warmer and richer sound.

 

The DAC to me sounds a bit too reference, too digital, and less smooth than my AKM-based DACs.

 

The MQA, DSD, and filtering features were more than making up for any of my personal preferences. When they worked.

 

 

Yes that was the last straw for me. Not cold sound. Cold shoulder.

 

what akm dacs?

 

Also sometimes pairing a cold dac with a warmer amp or speakers helps.

I have found ak dacs with warmer amp, sounded a little too dull....and wanted it a little brighter..then i got brighter speakers and it was too bright (grin)....

 

[gkarkalis]

8 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

It offers decent performance, but doesn't sound like a high-end product of course.

The headphone amp sounds neutral, crisp, and some might say cold. I prefer a warmer and richer sound.

 

The DAC to me sounds a bit too reference, too digital, and less smooth than my AKM-based DACs.

 

The MQA, DSD, and filtering features were more than making up for any of my personal preferences. When they worked.

 

 

Yes that was the last straw for me. Not cold sound. Cold shoulder.

Do you think that the Ifi idac2  is better choice?i'm planning to return the s2 and buy the idac2(i also have the isub3 nano).Is it  warmer and richer than s2?how your Schiit modi's soundstage and sound compares to s2?

the dac is paired with epoz aktimate mini .

 

Thanks, and sorry for my not so good english...

[left channel]

25 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

what akm dacs?

 

Schiit Modi 2U and NuPrime DAC-9. 

 

25 minutes ago, beerandmusic said:

Also sometimes pairing a cold dac with a warmer amp or speakers helps.

I have found ak dacs with warmer amp, sounded a little too dull....and wanted it a little brighter..then i got brighter speakers and it was too bright (grin)....

 

 

Yes it sounds best with my Sony MDR-Z7 cans, not my Beyers or others. The Pro-Ject Amp Box speaker amp doubles down on their signature sound and hurts my ears. Any little SMSL amp sounds better to me (and they're cheaper than the Amp Box). But moving on up, my NuPrime STA-9 is marvelously warm and rich with this or any DAC and speakers. NuPrime makes a wide range of amps, some warm some not.

[left channel]

6 minutes ago, gkarkalis said:

Do you think that the Ifi idac2  is better choice?i'm planning to return the s2 and buy the idac2(i also have the isub3 nano).Is it  warmer and richer than s2?how your Schiit modi's soundstage and sound compares to s2?

the dac is paired with epoz aktimate mini .

 

Thanks, and sorry for my not so good english...

 

I don't know anything about the iFi. My Schiit Modi/Magni 2U stack outperforms the Pre Box S2 Digital in smoothness, slight warmth, and raw power. I can't really speak to soundstage — people can very subjective about that just like everything else — but I think most of that is from cans or speakers. In generall the Pre Box S2 Digital sounds "thinner" to me, if that makes sense.

 

Also I've never mentioned this before, but sometimes the digital volume control on the Pre Box S2 Digital doesn't respond for a few clicks. When I move the analog volume control on the Magni, the volume of course changes. A small thing, but still.

 

Overall the Pre Box S2 Digital has been a fun way to explore MQA and DSD and other digital diddling. So sorry Pro-Ject. It's not you, it's me.

[gkarkalis]

16 minutes ago, left channel said:

 

I don't know anything about the iFi. My Schiit Modi/Magni 2U stack outperforms the Pre Box S2 Digital in smoothness, slight warmth, and raw power. I can't really speak to soundstage — people can very subjective about that just like everything else — but I think most of that is from cans or speakers. In generall the Pre Box S2 Digital sounds "thinner" to me, if that makes sense.

 

Also I've never mentioned this before, but sometimes the digital volume control on the Pre Box S2 Digital doesn't respond for a few clicks. When I move the analog volume control on the Magni, the volume of course changes. A small thing, but still.

 

Overall the Pre Box S2 Digital has been a fun way to explore MQA and DSD and other digital diddling. So sorry Pro-Ject. It's not you, it's me.

Schiit Modi 2? uber or multibit?