Pro-Ject Pre Box S2 Digital: MQA HW decoding at reasonable cost

[Miska]

The supplied wallwart also works very well. My measurements are with that one.

 

I have it driving Shure SRH1540 headphones, attached to my normal Xeon E5 Linux workstation I use for development.

[Jamesroy]

I got the Stellar working in the near future I’ll have my Parasound P5 HALO less than a year old up for sale

[Erviins]

I evaluated effect of different end-power supplies using Triangle Comete monitors and Musical Fidelity A1-X class A amplifier, Audioquest FLX/SL1P-14/4 speaker cables, SAEC sus-380 Triple C USB cable (20cm), Evidence Audio Lyrics RCA cables. Power cable - LessLoss DFPC. 

 

Another idea: if you play music sourcing from external storage (e.g. I keep library on 4 TB Seagate SSD connected via USB 3.0)- try copy music you going to play to your hard drive (SSD) and then listen.  There is noticeable improvement. 

[trinec]

have a driver problem for Win 10 for Pre S2 Digital. If the drivers do not detect and remain the original ones in the Windows distribution and play with Wasapi, everything plays well, except for MQA (DSD is showing up on the display). But if the last driver does not play anything, it cracks and the frequency indicator freezes. HW is not even found after a restart. I'm trying to connect to Linux, but I can not yet increase the frequency more than to 48000. Thanks for the reply

Excuse me my Google English  :-)

 

[GromitInWA]

I posted this over on PinkFishMedia, but thought you might be interested here as well.

 

I’m on my way back from CES and was able to get enough time to visit Pro-Ject in their suite at the Venetian. I saw the battery box and also a linear PSU with various outputs. I believe that they will both retail for around $200. I’m not sure when they will be available.

The battery box is called the Accu Box S2 USB and essentially contains a battery with a USB output. You can see it here:



The Power Box S2, on the other hand, is a linear power supply without a battery but provides USB power as well as 15V and 20V DC power for other Pro-Ject products. It takes a 20V DC input. This is the back of it:


Essentially their S2 line being positioned as a modular set of “real hi-fi” devices. Here is the range from the little catalogue that they had:



The Pre Box S2 Digital was being shown with a Mac running Roon driving it via the USB port (no external power) and going into another beefier headphone amplifier to drive a pair of Sennheiser headphones that would have been too hard to drive directly from the Pre Box S2 Digital.

I also spoke to a gentleman at the Hi-Res Audio Pavillion who was there for Onkyo but had the Pre Box S2 Digital himself and was raving about it.

[left channel]

Over on head-fi a user has reported a bug in the 2.12 firmware. To reproduce it, try this:

 

1) set the filter to Optimal Transient,
2) play an MQA track (this turns off the filters automatically),
3) play a non-MQA version of the same track, and it will sound thinner/weaker than it should,
4) change the filter setting and it immediately sounds better; toggle it back around to Optimal Transient and the track sounds normal.

 

I've posted the above on pinkfishmedia where the developer hangs out. If your device also has this bug, it would be helpful if you can quote and reply to my post there [link] to report it.

[Miska]

6 hours ago, left channel said:

Over on head-fi a user has reported a bug in the 2.12 firmware. To reproduce it, try this:

 

1) set the filter to Optimal Transient,
2) play an MQA track (this turns off the filters automatically),
3) play a non-MQA version of the same track, and it will sound thinner/weaker than it should,
4) change the filter setting and it immediately sounds better; toggle it back around to Optimal Transient and the track sounds normal.

 

I've posted the above on pinkfishmedia where the developer hangs out. If your device also has this bug, it would be helpful if you can quote and reply to my post there [link] to report it.

 

Looks like a slightly similar bug Meridian Explorer2 has... ME2 cannot exit from MQA setup properly when non-MQA content is encountered after playing MQA track.

 

[left channel]

Interesting, thanks. Meridian, huh?  At least they're in good company. :-)

[Miska]

42 minutes ago, left channel said:

Interesting, thanks. Meridian, huh?  At least they're in good company. :-)

 

Probably the same MQA code all over, inheriting same bugs...

 

[left channel]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Probably the same MQA code all over, inheriting same bugs...

 

 

Good point. I'll try to relay that to the developer.

[Jamesroy]

Please take me off this post

[left channel]

32 minutes ago, Jamesroy said:

Please take me off this post

 

Go to the top of this page and click the "Ignore this topic" button.

[Norton]

I've just bought one of these, particularly to play around with MQA.  So far, I'm impressed, especially for the money.  Initial impressions are as I anticipated: lots up detail from Sabre DACs, but inevitably lacking slam and 3D solidity of sound I'm used to with much more expensive DACs.

 

Can I just check two things:

 

there is no problem in using the 5v external PSU when also using audio input via USB?             Currently using the wall wart supplied  but plan to hook up to my HDPlex when I can get barrel to micro USB adaptor.

 

the best/test options are disabled if distortion compensation is enabled?  I don't seem to be able to have both "best" and distortion compensation on at same time.

 

Thanks.

[DarwinOSX]

Can any one who has listened to this compare it to the Meridian Explorer 2?  My primary interest is MQA.

[left channel]

2 hours ago, Norton said:

there is no problem in using the 5v external PSU when also using audio input via USB?             Currently using the wall wart supplied  but plan to hook up to my HDPlex when I can get barrel to micro USB adaptor.

 

Personally I think the stock external PSU improves the sound and causes no problems. But here's the full history of that topic:

• The manual says we should use the included switching power supply for coaxial and optical input only, and when connected via USB we should not use the external supply.
• In October 2017 the designer of this product, John Westlake, privately encouraged us to ignore that part of the manual and experiment with using external power adapters while connected via USB, for better sound quality. When an external adapter is connected, the device auto-switches from USB power to the adapter. All or most of us have found this improves the sound. This improvement has been greater than that provided by USB anti-jitter and/or USB power accessories.
• In December 2017, he stated that we should do this only with a linear or battery power supply, to avoid possible noise from earth leakage currents. A number of users commented that they are seeing improvements and no problems using switching power supplies, including the stock adapter and the iFi iPower. However most of us are now using linear power supplies, ranging from cheap linear wall warts and phone battery packs to the UpTone LPS-1 and beyond.
• In January 2018 Pro-Ject introduced two new products that meet those requirements: a battery PSU called the AccuBox S2 USB, and a linear supply called the PowerBox S2.

 

2 hours ago, Norton said:

the best/test options are disabled if distortion compensation is enabled?  I don't seem to be able to have both "best" and distortion compensation on at same time.

 

 

The Audio Quality menu has three possible settings: "Best", "Test", and "User".

• "Best" is the way John Westlake, the designer of this DAC, likes the sound: Distortion Compensation is disabled and the filter is Optimal Transient.
• "Test" matches the best results from John's test lab instruments: Distortion Compensation is enabled and the filter is Brickwall.
• "User" will be displayed if you go into the menus to individually adjust those options yourself.

Distortion Compensation works in MQA mode and I leave it on at all times, however the filters are disabled during MQA playback.

[Armin22]

I own both and like the Pro-Ject more, more Resolution in voice. Bass offer more definition and the „depth“ of the room gives you a better localization of the instruments. I use it as a sac and like the RCA connectors better then the 3,5mm one. My system is an integrated Amp from Einstein Audio-The Tune and as Speakers a 2-way hornsystem from Blumenhofer Acoustics- Genuin FS-2.

now you can maybe understand my objections better

[Norton]

Many thanks @left channel

[Armin22]

not objections, I've ment arguments!

 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, DarwinOSX said:

Can any one who has listened to this compare it to the Meridian Explorer 2?  My primary interest is MQA.

 

I don't know or care about MQA. But from technical perspective there's no competition, Pro-Ject beats the ME2. 

 

ME2 really belongs to sub 100€ dongle category. Product most closely comparable to ME2 and much better product is Resonessence Labs HERUS which is really good in that category (USB-powered small portable DAC).

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, Norton said:

the best/test options are disabled if distortion compensation is enabled?  I don't seem to be able to have both "best" and distortion compensation on at same time.

 

The "best" is really the crappiest setting. You get good performance with sharp roll-off filter and distortion compensation enabled. Just forget those predefined profiles...

 

[DarwinOSX]

11 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

I don't know or care about MQA. But from technical perspective there's no competition, Pro-Ject beats the ME2. 

 

ME2 really belongs to sub 100€ dongle category. Product most closely comparable to ME2 and much better product is Resonessence Labs HERUS which is really good in that category (USB-powered small portable DAC).

 

 

 

Have you used an ME2?  The Herus is $150 more.   It should be better but it also doesn’t do MQA. The ME2 does the full unfold and is the only device in its price range that does. That is it’s prime selling point and purpose and  it is very good in general. I’d say a lot of people are looking at the Project because it does MQA.  There are plenty of other well known devices in its price range otherwise. 

[Miska]

18 minutes ago, DarwinOSX said:

Have you used an ME2?  The Herus is $150 more.   It should be better but it also doesn’t do MQA. The ME2 does the full unfold and is the only device in its price range that does. That is it’s prime selling point and purpose and  it is very good in general. I’d say a lot of people are looking at the Project because it does MQA.  There are plenty of other well known devices in its price range otherwise. 

 

Yes, I have ME2, HERUS and the Pro-Ject (and some others portable stuff too).

 

You can decode MQA in software and send it to HERUS. "Full unfold" is just decoding to 88.2/96 kHz and then upsampling with crappy MQA filters. You are much better off with the filters built into HERUS...

 

I don't know anybody who would be interested in MQA. But I know lot of people who buy the Pro-Ject because it does DSD up to DSD512. And PCM up to 768k.

 

ME2 is limited to 192k PCM.

 

[Jamesroy]

I just hooked up The Stellar Gain Cell DAC and sounds wonderful.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-gain-cell-dac/

[baloo2]

8 minutes ago, Jamesroy said:

I just hooked up The Stellar Gain Cell DAC and sounds wonderful.

http://www.psaudio.com/products/stellar-gain-cell-dac/

How can you compare 1700$ device with Project S2 ??? Irrelevant comparison & irrelevant post.

[DarwinOSX]

25 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, I have ME2, HERUS and the Pro-Ject (and some others portable stuff too).

 

You can decode MQA in software and send it to HERUS. "Full unfold" is just decoding to 88.2/96 kHz and then upsampling with crappy MQA filters. You are much better off with the filters built into HERUS...

 

I don't know anybody who would be interested in MQA. But I know lot of people who buy the Pro-Ject because it does DSD up to DSD512. And PCM up to 768k.

 

ME2 is limited to 192k PCM.

 

 

 

You are incorrect on the full unfold in hardware and what it involves.

It is actually the first unfold in software that goes to 24/96 and the full hardware decode provides a 24/192 file.

For someone who professes to have no interest in MQA you bought a DAC from Meridian that is primary known and sold to do the full unfold in hardware then go on to make an incorrect description of what a full hardware unfold entails and then say why other things are better.

There are other better known devices at the Projects price range for DSD and PCM that people would buy first. They aren't exactly known for this rather for lower end Turntables.