HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

[simonklp]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Network failed to come up fully in this case. If you have multiple ethernet interfaces by default it will wait for all interfaces to come up. If all interfaces don't have cable connected or such, it will fail...

 

Hi @Miska, does the below screenshot of the result of ifconfig command give more information about this network fail problem? Or should I check some other information?

 

Your advice will be deeply appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

[shadowlight]

@simonklp looking at the screenshot in the previous post non of the interfaces have an ip address assigned which would definitely prevent hqplayer from starting up correctly.  I am assuming your are using dhcp?  Can you provide copy of /etc/network/interfaces file.

 

[Miska]

Yes, that's correct. To be exact, "1x" filters apply to source sampling rates below 50 kHz. While "Nx" filters apply to source sampling rates above 50 kHz. Both settings are independent and unrelated, so you are free to choose what you want for either one.

 

From practical perspective, the point is that you can choose sharper roll-off filters for "1x" rates and slower roll-off filters for hires. Or you can select same for both and then things work as before...

 

[Miska]

5 hours ago, simonklp said:

Hi @Miska, does the below screenshot of the result of ifconfig command give more information about this network fail problem? Or should I check some other information?

 

Your advice will be deeply appreciated.

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

 

Yes, it doesn't seem to have any IP address. Where is the NAA computer connected? Do you have DHCP available on your network? There also seems to be two network interfaces...

 

Can you clarify a bit your network setup?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, shadowlight said:

@simonklp looking at the screenshot in the previous post non of the interfaces have an ip address assigned which would definitely prevent hqplayer from starting up correctly.  I am assuming your are using dhcp?  Can you provide copy of /etc/network/interfaces file.

 

This image is not Debian-based so there's no /etc/network/interfaces file. It is using systemd-networkd to setup the network...

 

If one wants to manually adjust the configration, there's some documentation here:

https://www.freedesktop.org/software/systemd/man/systemd.network.html

 

[shadowlight]

Aah, did not realize that.

[simonklp]

2 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Yes, it doesn't seem to have any IP address. Where is the NAA computer connected? Do you have DHCP available on your network? There also seems to be two network interfaces...

 

Can you clarify a bit your network setup?

Hi @Miska, thank you very much for your reply. My network setup is stated as follows:

The PCIe NIC on my NAA computer is connected via fibre to a fibre network switch and then via fibre to the PCIe NIC of my computer with the bootable image of HQPlayer Embedded on USB drive.

 

I am not sure whether I have DHCP available on my network, even though I always thought I have. Is there any way to check it?

 

Thank you again for your kind help and advice.

[simonklp]

5 hours ago, shadowlight said:

@simonklp looking at the screenshot in the previous post non of the interfaces have an ip address assigned which would definitely prevent hqplayer from starting up correctly.  I am assuming your are using dhcp?  Can you provide copy of /etc/network/interfaces file.

 

Hi Deepak, thank you very much for your kind help. I am not sure whether I am using dhcp. Is there any way to check it out? Thanks and regards, Simon.

[shadowlight]

Simon,

 

Please correct if I have your network setup listed correctly:

 

NAA (FiberCard) --> FiberSwitch --> HQPe (FiberCard).  If what i have listed is correct you do not seem to have DHCP server unless you are running DHCP on NAA or HQPe.  If you are using the image I doubt if either one is configured as DHCP server.  Now if you have a 2nd card in your HQPe system which is plugged into regular cable modem / isp router you might be running DHCP on that.  Here is how that setup would look 

 

NAA (FiberCard) --> FiberSwitch --> HQPe (FiberCard) --> Router (with DHCP Server) --> ISP connection

 

 

I am not familiar with systemd.network setup that the image is using so I cannot offer you much help.  Personally, I would just hook up the HQPe and NAA to a regular router/modem and get that working correctly before trying the directly attached nic's between HQP and NAA.

 

Sorry, I know that does not help you much.

[asdf1000]

7 hours ago, Miska said:

From practical perspective, the point is that you can choose sharper roll-off filters for "1x" rates and slower roll-off filters for hires. Or you can select same for both and then things work as before...

 

Thanks Jussi. I'm relatively new to HQP (weeks, not years) but does the 'short' in your filter names refer to faster roll-off, compared with non-short in the filter name?

 

So if I like poly-sinc-short-mp-2s in general (mostly RBCD music), then for "1x" rates I could keep it as is, and for "Nx" rates would a good logical match be the same non-short filter, i.e. poly-sinc-mp-2s?

 

So  1x = poly-sinc-short-mp-2s for RBCD, matched with Nx = poly-sinc-mp-2s for hi-res ?

 

Of course it all comes down to what my ears like but is that sensible reasoning and a sensible way to use this feature?

 

Or have I got my understand of "short" in the filter name completely wrong ?

 

Many thanks

 

 

 

[asdf1000]

Ok, read the manual (always a good reference) and found this definition:

 

poly-sinc-short: Otherwise similar as poly-sinc, but shorter pre- and post-echos at the expense of filtering quality (not as sharp roll-off and reduced stop-band attenuation).

 

So short refers to pre and post ringing length, no faster roll-offs.

 

Hmmm so Jussi, if I like poly-sinc-short-mp-2s (mostly listen to RBCD), then if I used this for "1x" what would be a good logical/sensible match for "Nx" for hires music ?

 

Just to help with understanding this 1x and Nx feature of HQPe a bit more.

 

Many thanks again.

 

[simonklp]

6 hours ago, shadowlight said:

Simon,

 

Please correct if I have your network setup listed correctly:

 

NAA (FiberCard) --> FiberSwitch --> HQPe (FiberCard).  If what i have listed is correct you do not seem to have DHCP server unless you are running DHCP on NAA or HQPe.  If you are using the image I doubt if either one is configured as DHCP server.  Now if you have a 2nd card in your HQPe system which is plugged into regular cable modem / isp router you might be running DHCP on that.  Here is how that setup would look 

 

NAA (FiberCard) --> FiberSwitch --> HQPe (FiberCard) --> Router (with DHCP Server) --> ISP connection

 

 

I am not familiar with systemd.network setup that the image is using so I cannot offer you much help.  Personally, I would just hook up the HQPe and NAA to a regular router/modem and get that working correctly before trying the directly attached nic's between HQP and NAA.

 

Sorry, I know that does not help you much.

Hi Deepak, thank you very much for your kind help and advice. You have listed my network setup correctly, except that I have an Ethernet cable also connected from the router to the FiberSwitch.

 

I  have tried with your suggestion to connect the LAN port built in the motherboard of the computer for HQPlayer Embedded with Ethernet cable to the router. However, in the end, I still got the message of "A dependency has failed". The screenshots of this message and the related logs are attached for your reference.

 

Could you please kindly help to advise if there is any clue on how to diagnose the problem?

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

 

[Miska]

16 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Thanks Jussi. I'm relatively new to HQP (weeks, not years) but does the 'short' in your filter names refer to faster roll-off, compared with non-short in the filter name?

 

So if I like poly-sinc-short-mp-2s in general (mostly RBCD music), then for "1x" rates I could keep it as is, and for "Nx" rates would a good logical match be the same non-short filter, i.e. poly-sinc-mp-2s?

 

So  1x = poly-sinc-short-mp-2s for RBCD, matched with Nx = poly-sinc-mp-2s for hi-res ?

 

Of course it all comes down to what my ears like but is that sensible reasoning and a sensible way to use this feature?

 

Or have I got my understand of "short" in the filter name completely wrong ?

 

 

Short means "short impulse response" from time domain point of view and from frequency domain point of view meaning slow roll-off.

 

There's no right or wrong as such in these, people are sensitive to different aspects and also type of music one listens to has it's own impact (this is referred to in the manual). So anything I say or suggest in the manual is just what I'd see from objective point of view. I try to put less emphasis on my personal subjective preferences, because I realize that those are just mine.

 

So for 1x RBCD one could for example select "poly-sinc-short-mp-2s" and for for Nx one could select "poly-sinc-mqa-mp". This is especially suitable selection if one listens primarily rock/pop/jazz/blues Tidal through Roon (MQA decoding). But also for lot of lot of local RBCD and hi-res content too. While someone else listening to a lot of classical music from local storage could instead select for example 1x as "poly-sinc-xtr-2s" and Nx as "poly-sinc-short-2s".

 

Plain "poly-sinc" is something that sits somewhere between "poly-sinc-xtr" and "poly-sinc-short", but a bit closer to the latter. While "poly-sinc-mqa" is significantly shorter and less attenuation than "poly-sinc-short", so "mqa" is like opposite of "xtr".

 

[Miska]

12 hours ago, simonklp said:

Hi Deepak, thank you very much for your kind help and advice. You have listed my network setup correctly, except that I have an Ethernet cable also connected from the router to the FiberSwitch.

 

I  have tried with your suggestion to connect the LAN port built in the motherboard of the computer for HQPlayer Embedded with Ethernet cable to the router. However, in the end, I still got the message of "A dependency has failed". The screenshots of this message and the related logs are attached for your reference.

 

Could you please kindly help to advise if there is any clue on how to diagnose the problem?

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

 

 

If you have two interfaces on the computer with HQPE, but only one in use (connected to a switch), disable the other one.

 

So in usual setup, use optical connections to the switch, connect your internet router to the switch (normal copper). And disable any unused motherboard  copper ethernet connections from the BIOS settings. HQPE image by default tries to bring up all available ethernet interfaces and if one of those fails then the dependency target fails. So either disable those unused ones, modify configuration on the image (advanced stuff), or switch to minimal Debian, Fedora on Ubuntu Server based installation.

 

In normal setup, your switch (if you have one) or router (if you don't have a switch) would be central star-point of the network infra where everything else is connected to. I myself have a complex setup with one central switch with five supporting switches connected to it. And most other stuff connected to the supporting switches. So kind of two-layer star-topology.

 

Bootable image is designed to work "out of box" in cases where you have single network interface connected to normal home network. For more complex/advanced setups, you either need to configure the image further manually (systemd-networkd), or instead use some normal Linux distribution (Debian, Ubuntu or Fedora) as basis.

[asdf1000]

4 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Short means "short impulse response" from time domain point of view and from frequency domain point of view meaning slow roll-off.

 

There's no right or wrong as such in these, people are sensitive to different aspects and also type of music one listens to has it's own impact (this is referred to in the manual). So anything I say or suggest in the manual is just what I'd see from objective point of view. I try to put less emphasis on my personal subjective preferences, because I realize that those are just mine.

 

So for 1x RBCD one could for example select "poly-sinc-short-mp-2s" and for for Nx one could select "poly-sinc-mqa-mp". This is especially suitable selection if one listens primarily rock/pop/jazz/blues Tidal through Roon (MQA decoding). But also for lot of lot of local RBCD and hi-res content too. While someone else listening to a lot of classical music from local storage could instead select for example 1x as "poly-sinc-xtr-2s" and Nx as "poly-sinc-short-2s".

 

Plain "poly-sinc" is something that sits somewhere between "poly-sinc-xtr" and "poly-sinc-short", but a bit closer to the latter. While "poly-sinc-mqa" is significantly shorter and less attenuation than "poly-sinc-short", so "mqa" is like opposite of "xtr".

 

 

Thanks Jussi!

 

So I can see a pattern above (2 data points ? ) of using a shorter pre-ringing length filter, for Nx / Hi-Res content, compared with RBCD.

 

What's the objective technical advantage for using shorter pre-ringing length filter (and shorter attenuation you mention) for Hi-Res content?

 

[simonklp]

11 hours ago, Miska said:

 

If you have two interfaces on the computer with HQPE, but only one in use (connected to a switch), disable the other one.

 

So in usual setup, use optical connections to the switch, connect your internet router to the switch (normal copper). And disable any unused motherboard  copper ethernet connections from the BIOS settings. HQPE image by default tries to bring up all available ethernet interfaces and if one of those fails then the dependency target fails. So either disable those unused ones, modify configuration on the image (advanced stuff), or switch to minimal Debian, Fedora on Ubuntu Server based installation.

 

In normal setup, your switch (if you have one) or router (if you don't have a switch) would be central star-point of the network infra where everything else is connected to. I myself have a complex setup with one central switch with five supporting switches connected to it. And most other stuff connected to the supporting switches. So kind of two-layer star-topology.

 

Bootable image is designed to work "out of box" in cases where you have single network interface connected to normal home network. For more complex/advanced setups, you either need to configure the image further manually (systemd-networkd), or instead use some normal Linux distribution (Debian, Ubuntu or Fedora) as basis.

Hi @Miska, thank you for your kind advice.

 

I have followed your advice to disable the onboard copper ethernet network interface on the computer with HQPE by using the BIOS setting as shown in the attached screenshot. In addition, I have also used optical connections to the switch and connect the internet router to the switch via normal copper cable. However, after booting the USB drive with image and starting the HQPE, the same message of “A dependency job of hqplayerd service has failed”. The related screenshots of ifconfig and logs are attached for your reference. Could you please kindly advise whether I have followed your advice correctly or not?

 

Thank you for your kind attention. Best regards, Simon

[Miska]

10 hours ago, simonklp said:

Hi @Miska, thank you for your kind advice.

 

I have followed your advice to disable the onboard copper ethernet network interface on the computer with HQPE by using the BIOS setting as shown in the attached screenshot. In addition, I have also used optical connections to the switch and connect the internet router to the switch via normal copper cable. However, after booting the USB drive with image and starting the HQPE, the same message of “A dependency job of hqplayerd service has failed”. The related screenshots of ifconfig and logs are attached for your reference. Could you please kindly advise whether I have followed your advice correctly or not?

 

Thank you for your kind attention. Best regards, Simon

 

Network is not coming up properly for some reason (traffic counters also show zero traffic ever) and there are other errors too. Z170 chipset should work fine, what CPU do you have there? Do you have the latest BIOS version?

 

Have you verified with something else that the exact network hardware setup works OK?

 

[Miska]

18 hours ago, Em2016 said:

What's the objective technical advantage for using shorter pre-ringing length filter (and shorter attenuation you mention) for Hi-Res content?

 

It is mostly that you have more bandwidth available to trade for filter transition band on hires than you have for 1x rates. So you can "afford" using shorter filters.

 

For example poly-sinc and poly-sinc-short have same stop-band attenuation, but "short" has wider transition band.

 

[asdf1000]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

It is mostly that you have more bandwidth available to trade for filter transition band on hires than you have for 1x rates. So you can "afford" using shorter filters.

 

For example poly-sinc and poly-sinc-short have same stop-band attenuation, but "short" has wider transition band.

 

 

Thanks!

[simonklp]

19 hours ago, Miska said:

 

Network is not coming up properly for some reason (traffic counters also show zero traffic ever) and there are other errors too. Z170 chipset should work fine, what CPU do you have there? Do you have the latest BIOS version?

 

Have you verified with something else that the exact network hardware setup works OK?

 

Hi @Miska, the CPU is i7-6700K. I don't have the latest BIOS version. The BIOS version is shown in attached screenshot.

 

I always used this network setup for using HQPlayer Desktop on Windows OS. Recently, I have also tried the HQPlayer Desktop and Embedded (non-image installation) on Ubuntu Studio based on the same network setup without problem.

 

In this case, I would most appreciate if you could kindly advise how to diagnose the problem.

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

[Miska]

4 hours ago, simonklp said:

Hi @Miska, the CPU is i7-6700K. I don't have the latest BIOS version. The BIOS version is shown in attached screenshot.

 

I always used this network setup for using HQPlayer Desktop on Windows OS. Recently, I have also tried the HQPlayer Desktop and Embedded (non-image installation) on Ubuntu Studio based on the same network setup without problem.

 

In this case, I would most appreciate if you could kindly advise how to diagnose the problem.

 

Thanks and regards, Simon

 

I think it could be advisable to upgrade the BIOS also for security reasons (Meltdown/Spectre microcode fixes) and it could help other ways too.

 

But other than that, I cannot help much more. If Ubuntu works, you can install minimal Ubuntu Server system and replace the default kernel either with lowlatency-hwe kernel from Ubuntu repository, or alternatively my kernel. Then just install hqplayerd on it.

 

[simonklp]

5 hours ago, Miska said:

 

I think it could be advisable to upgrade the BIOS also for security reasons (Meltdown/Spectre microcode fixes) and it could help other ways too.

 

But other than that, I cannot help much more. If Ubuntu works, you can install minimal Ubuntu Server system and replace the default kernel either with lowlatency-hwe kernel from Ubuntu repository, or alternatively my kernel. Then just install hqplayerd on it.

 

Hi @Miska, thank you for your kind advice.

[asdf1000]

On 5/24/2018 at 7:46 PM, Miska said:

Device lists are retrieved always. However, the currently used device is reserved and always listed as just "Current".

 

Latest HQPe update is much better and more consistent with the sonicT i7 HQPe, where 'current' also includes description of the device.

 

Thanks !

[asdf1000]

On 5/28/2018 at 4:53 AM, Miska said:

It is mostly that you have more bandwidth available to trade for filter transition band on hires than you have for 1x rates. So you can "afford" using shorter filters.

 

Hi Jussi, when you say here "so you can 'afford' using shorter filters", by 'afford' do you mean lower CPU loading?

 

[Miska]

14 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Hi Jussi, when you say here "so you can 'afford' using shorter filters", by 'afford' do you mean lower CPU loading?

 

No, I mean that you have bandwidth to spare, above 20 kHz for the slower transition band. IOW, you have "luxury" of having extra bandwidth that you don't have with RedBook content. Shorter filters are lighter on CPU, so you'll get lower CPU load too.

 

However, trading that entire extra bandwidth for the sake of transition band like MQA does is still not something I'd go for. Because that sort of takes the "hires" out of "hires". So my "mqa" filters are still not like MQA's filters.