HQPlayer Linux Desktop and HQplayer embedded

[Miska]

14 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Not the same  - very much larger than Mojo microUSB 

 

The side block is because it is USB3 micro-B, you can see exactly same type of connector on 2.5" external USB HDD's. It is compatible with USB2 micro-B (you can find on Mojo) though, then the extra block on the side is left unused.

 

14 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

Ok I get it now. So now you are not forced to just use HQPe Input of the HQPe Server - you can use the NAA too now. This is cool.

 

Yes, NAA nowadays supports both input and output side.

 

14 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

But for now, it will only work with NAA running Debian or Ubuntu with your custom kernel.

 

Yes. Technically it works also on Fedora 31, but I don't have a custom kernel for Fedora yet.

 

[Miska]

16 minutes ago, BCRich said:

If I understand correctly... for instance the Summus is headless, I have to access its configuration GUI via a web browser, by design that Is the only place the settings for embedded would be.

 

Yes, since the server/streamer/upsampler is a headless device. Necessary activity is performed from elsewhere. Some of the hardware related configuration is done by the device vendor and for that reason not visible in the web interface.

 

[asdf1000]

31 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

The side block is because it is USB3 micro-B, you can see exactly same type of connector on 2.5" external USB HDD's. It is compatible with USB2 micro-B (you can find on Mojo) though, then the extra block on the side is left unused.

 

 

Yes, NAA nowadays supports both input and output side.

 

 

Yes. Technically it works also on Fedora 31, but I don't have a custom kernel for Fedora yet.

 

 

Thanks Jussi!

[asdf1000]

@Miska is this more powerful Up Squared Gateway model is also supported as HQPe USB Class Audio Input ?

 

https://up-shop.org/up-squared-gateway-pentium-n4200-w-8g-memory-64g-emmc-board-w-ovesa-plate.html

 

Should be more capable as a HQPe Server for PCM upsampling with Pentium N4200 ?

 

For an office headphones setup I'm thinking of getting newer version RME ADI-2 DAC and doing PCM sampling to PCM768kHz (just initially).

 

And then later when funds allow, adding Benchmark HPA4 so I can use the ADI-2 DAC in DSD Direct mode.

 

Also it would be nice if the USB-C port of my ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4 (of my 9900K HQPe Server) could be used as an input too ! 🙂

 

I will get around to trying my current UpBoard Gateway (which is in another room for speaker system) - I've been running NAA image so I need to install Debian/Ubuntu and your custom kernel

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

@Miska is this more powerful Up Squared Gateway model is also supported as HQPe USB Class Audio Input ?

 

https://up-shop.org/up-squared-gateway-pentium-n4200-w-8g-memory-64g-emmc-board-w-ovesa-plate.html

 

Should be more capable as a HQPe Server for PCM upsampling with Pentium N4200 ?

 

So far I didn't get the USB device mode working with it. Maybe the BIOS is buggy or something else. Theoretically it should work, but in practice I have not been able to verify it.

 

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

For an office headphones setup I'm thinking of getting newer version RME ADI-2 DAC and doing PCM sampling to PCM768kHz (just initially).

 

That should work with the normal UpBoard too, at least with some of the filter.

 

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

Also it would be nice if the USB-C port of my ASRock Z390 Phantom Gaming 4 (of my 9900K HQPe Server) could be used as an input too ! 🙂

 

Yeah, it would be nice, but not sure if the hardware supports it, likely not.

 

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

I will get around to trying my current UpBoard Gateway (which is in another room for speaker system) - I've been running NAA image so I need to install Debian/Ubuntu and your custom kernel

 

The way I have it is that I have Debian installed on the eMMC while when necessary I boot the NAA image from USB.

 

[asdf1000]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

That should work with the normal UpBoard too, at least with some of the filter.

 

ext2 is all I need.

 

Normal UpBoard should be ok for all sample rates, up to PCM768kHz feeding ADI-2 DAC?

 

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

The way I have it is that I have Debian installed on the eMMC while when necessary I boot the NAA image from USB.

 

Cool, I'll do the same.

 

Btw: thanks for adding Bauer crossfeed into latest HQPe update 😃

 

Hopefully you can add some more cool headphones stuff to HQP ! I know you said you've been doing some cool DSP headphones stuff.

 

 

[asdf1000]

I saw on another forum, someone had this stack.

 

I imagine this would be spectacular with ADI-2 in DSD Direct mode, fed DSD256

 

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

Normal UpBoard should be ok for all sample rates, up to PCM768kHz feeding ADI-2 DAC?

 

Yes, at least what I just tested playing from SMB network share library, 44.1 to 192 sources to 705.6/768k output with auto rate family is fine with poly-sinc-ext2. Converting from 44.1 to 768 with poly-sinc-ext2 is too much.

 

1 hour ago, asdf1000 said:

Btw: thanks for adding Bauer crossfeed into latest HQPe update 😃

 

There seems to be one bug left, when enabling it with matrix, fill something to the frequency and level fields (like 600 and 3), even if using one of the presets instead of custom...

 

58 minutes ago, asdf1000 said:

I imagine this would be spectacular with ADI-2 in DSD Direct mode, fed DSD256

 

Yes, certainly, or with Spring!

 

[BCRich]

Hi Jussi,

attached are some screen shots of what I am seeing using embedded, should I be concerned.

If I try going from FLAC 44.1 to DSD256 there are dropouts. This would be via Qobuz. My local files will be

DSD 64/128, hopefully I will be able to go to 256 using the EC Modulators.

If I purchase a Embedded License for the Summus and down the road decide to take HQP duties to a more powerful computer would that License be transferable?

Thanks.....Mike

[audiofool]

6 hours ago, Miska said:

 

There seems to be one bug left, when enabling it with matrix, fill something to the frequency and level fields (like 600 and 3), even if using one of the presets instead of custom...

 

 

Excellent, I was hoping to try this in the new version.  Is it usable now with the bug?  How does one calibrate the cross-feed?  Is this also planned for the desktop version?

[jabbr]

3 hours ago, BCRich said:

attached are some screen shots of what I am seeing using embedded, should I be concerned.

If I try going from FLAC 44.1 to DSD256 there are dropouts. This would be via Qobuz. My local files will be

DSD 64/128, hopefully I will be able to go to 256 using the EC Modulators.

I’m concerned that your core temps are at 100 degrees C — you would need to fix/improve the cooling system — that’s the limiting factor rather than CPU load. 

[BCRich]

Hi @jabbr,

When looking at that screen in Real Time the Temp hits 100 and drops at least by 20% in a split second.

it doesn’t hover at the extreme temps. It seems to jump up and back down right away, it is continuous though. This only occurs when I am trying to up-convert to DSD256 say from a 44.1 FLAC File on Qobuz. I don’t think I can do much with the cooling aspect, I’m pretty sure it is passive.

I may ultimately go with 2 way set up, Roon/Euphony on the Summus and a separate server for HQP.

Thanks for the response, I don’t have my local files connected as of yet, just using Qobuz for now. See how it goes.

Thanks,

Stay safe and Healthy,

Mike

[jabbr]

1 minute ago, BCRich said:

Hi @jabbr,

When looking at that screen in Real Time the Temp hits 100 and drops at least by 20% in a split second.

it doesn’t hover at the extreme temps. It seems to jump up and back down right away, it is continuous though. This only occurs when I am trying to up-convert to DSD256 say from a 44.1 FLAC File on Qobuz. I don’t think I can do much with the cooling aspect, I’m pretty sure it is passive.

I may ultimately go with 2 way set up, Roon/Euphony on the Summus and a separate server for HQP.

Thanks for the response, I don’t have my local files connected as of yet, just using Qobuz for now. See how it goes.

Thanks,

Stay safe and Healthy,

Mike

 

Its possibly/likely that your CPU is throttling (to bring temp down) and that is a candidate cause for dropouts ...

[BCRich]

@jabbr, that’s for sure. If I push the envelope I get drop outs.

[Miska]

1 hour ago, audiofool said:

Excellent, I was hoping to try this in the new version.  Is it usable now with the bug?  How does one calibrate the cross-feed?  Is this also planned for the desktop version?

 

Yes, it is usable. You just need to fill in something instead of leaving the fields blank. If using one of the three presets the values are not used for anything but just need something to be there.

 

Yes, it is supposed to come in next Desktop release as well.

 

[BCRich]

On 4/18/2020 at 12:52 PM, jabbr said:

I’m concerned that your core temps are at 100 degrees C — you would need to fix/improve the cooling system — that’s the limiting factor rather than CPU load. 

@jabbr Any suggestions as to how I could improve the cooling. I did prop it up on some Herbies Lab ISO Cups to get a bit more air circulation around the case. Based on some pictures I’ve seen from what I could tell the edges with the vents don’t pass through to the middle of the case where everything is located, although I’m sure by design they are meant to act as heat sinks. I really like how the server sounds, and am pretty much married to HQPlayer, there are some pending updates as far as HQP goes that will hopefully stabilize things a bit more. I’m afraid I may have to go to dual server configuration to really fully take advantage of the HQP EC Modulators, especially if I was to take it to DSD 256.

[jabbr]

51 minutes ago, BCRich said:

@jabbr Any suggestions as to how I could improve the cooling. I did prop it up on some Herbies Lab ISO Cups to get a bit more air circulation around the case. Based on some pictures I’ve seen from what I could tell the edges with the vents don’t pass through to the middle of the case where everything is located, although I’m sure by design they are meant to act as heat sinks. I really like how the server sounds, and am pretty much married to HQPlayer, there are some pending updates as far as HQP goes that will hopefully stabilize things a bit more. I’m afraid I may have to go to dual server configuration to really fully take advantage of the HQP EC Modulators, especially if I was to take it to DSD 256.

 

Cooling? I guess you should ask your vendor ... my approach is to go with a non-compromise in terms of math processing HQPe server, e.g. i9-9900k with CUDA capable GPU or as I have: an AVX512 capable CPU such as the Xeon W-2245 (I have), or i9-10900X series ... and then connect this via network to your audio endpoint i.e. NAA. I am sure your current server could serve as an NAA if you really like it. There are a number of people who like having an i7 on the computer attached to the DAC even though as an NAA it doesn't need to do anything which uses serious CPU cycles.

 

My HQPe server isn't silent and isn't anywhere physically near my audio systems, rather does math and the bits are sent over the network. DSD256 with EC is no problem with any of the filters including closed-form-16m or xtr etc.

[BCRich]

My guess is that as far as the Summus Server is concerned it has its limitations. I will probably end up using it with Stylus EP and then build a separate Server for hosting Roon Core and HQP using Euphony as the OS with HQPe. Maybe I got too far ahead of myself with this purchase and didn’t entirely think it through. We’ll see.

Thanks for the input. I’ve built things in the past, but nothing like what’s been presented of late here on AS.  I don’t know if I have the patience to go that route, I certainly can’t afford a Pink Faun, Innuos or a SGM Taiko Extreme.

[jabbr]

13 hours ago, BCRich said:

I’ve built things in the past, but nothing like what’s been presented of late here on AS.  I don’t know if I have the patience to go that route, I certainly can’t afford a Pink Faun, Innuos or a SGM Taiko Extreme.

 

It all depends on your philosophy, goals and individual tastes. Some of those builds are gorgeous works of art. It can be very satisfying to create a build like that.

 

My own approach, as I stated in my "build" thread was to go all reasonably out in terms of HQPlayer performance -- though I didn't use an extreme cooling/overclocking solution, which would be a really fun project in its own right - and the variable at the moment is the AVX512 instruction set (lots said elsewhere including the EC Modulators thread). Ok so $1700 for a Dell Xeon W Workstation is a "bargain" in my book. An i9-9900k or i9-10900k build is another great option. My approach to getting the "ultimate" in SQ is to pair this with a bullet proof fiber ethernet isolation to a very quiet and low powered NAA. That's the "other" school of thought here and I think all the very happy customers of Sonore and the other streamers --- hmm I see you have an opticalRendu, so you can get a workstation with fiber out, connect to your opticalRendu and compare for yourself against the Summus both acting as NAA.

[BCRich]

46 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

It all depends on your philosophy, goals and individual tastes. Some of those builds are gorgeous works of art. It can be very satisfying to create a build like that.

 

My own approach, as I stated in my "build" thread was to go all reasonably out in terms of HQPlayer performance -- though I didn't use an extreme cooling/overclocking solution, which would be a really fun project in its own right - and the variable at the moment is the AVX512 instruction set (lots said elsewhere including the EC Modulators thread). Ok so $1700 for a Dell Xeon W Workstation is a "bargain" in my book. An i9-9900k or i9-10900k build is another great option. My approach to getting the "ultimate" in SQ is to pair this with a bullet proof fiber ethernet isolation to a very quiet and low powered NAA. That's the "other" school of thought here and I think all the very happy customers of Sonore and the other streamers --- hmm I see you have an opticalRendu, so you can get a workstation with fiber out, connect to your opticalRendu and compare for yourself against the Summus both acting as NAA.

I also have an EtherRegen, lots to think about. I think the first thing is to get HQPlayer up to date on the Summus, waiting on that, hopefully not too long. It is quite a few updates behind, most of which dealt with Core efficiency etc. That will give me a better feel for what direction I will need to head in.

Thanks for the feedback. 

[Miska]

3 hours ago, jabbr said:

That's the "other" school of thought here and I think all the very happy customers of Sonore and the other streamers --- hmm I see you have an opticalRendu, so you can get a workstation with fiber out, connect to your opticalRendu and compare for yourself against the Summus both acting as NAA.

 

...rather a switch with two SFP slots... And you don't need optical on the HQPlayer server.

 

And I want to strongly discourage multi-homed point-to-point connection because those will cause a lot of trouble. One of the most common sources of problems.

 

[BCRich]

26 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

...rather a switch with two SFP slots... And you don't need optical on the HQPlayer server.

 

And I want to strongly discourage multi-homed point-to-point connection because those will cause a lot of trouble. One of the most common sources of problems.

 

@Miska

Hi Jussi,

Not sure I understand what you mean by multi-homed point to point. You talking about Bridging Ethernet?

I just purchased the Summus Server from Euphony, it seems like I am going have to go with a dual server scenario to fully take advantage of HQPe. 

I like how the Summus sounds, based on my conversations and emails with all respective parties it seems like that a dual configuration will give me the best of both worlds. If I build or purchase a high end server, is it feasible to Set up Roon Core on the Summs and use either Roon or Euphony Stylus to play to the HQPe Server and use my OpticalRendu as my end point?
Appreciate the feedback....

Thanks....Mike

[Miska]

1 hour ago, BCRich said:

Not sure I understand what you mean by multi-homed point to point. You talking about Bridging Ethernet?

 

By multi-homed I mean a device that has more than one network connection.

 

Bridging is somewhere in the middle, making multiple network connections one (a software switch).

 

[BCRich]

For instance the i9 Sonic Transporter that has both Ethernet and Optical Connections, that would or would not pose a problem? The optical connection is a Sonore OpticalModule inside the server and meant to be connected to a OpticalRendu. I’m guessing you are talking about two network connections on the same device connected to a switch.

[Miska]

27 minutes ago, BCRich said:

For instance the i9 Sonic Transporter that has both Ethernet and Optical Connections, that would or would not pose a problem? The optical connection is a Sonore OpticalModule inside the server and meant to be connected to a OpticalRendu. I’m guessing you are talking about two network connections on the same device connected to a switch.

 

I'm talking about having more than one network connection connected simultaneously to anything.

 

Server should have only one network connection, connected to a switch. Switch (or multiple switches) should have the necessary copper/optical connections to whatever else.

 

Only routers and switches should have more than one network connection.

 

Here's very much simplified diagram of my network:

 

Note that none of the leaf nodes have more than one network connection.