MQA is Vaporware

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Nobody said anyone was motivated solely by money. Please don't push the conversation down path.

 

It's my belief that Ayre implemented DSD to please customers, check a box on the spec sheet, and make money. None of those are bad in and of themselves. There's no need to go into a long diatribe about DSD and its merits or demerits. 

 

My point was that you railed against DSD, and still do, yet you built the feature into your components when you didn't have to. You're supporting DSD by making playback available on your products. that seems very incongruent with your hatred of DSD. 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Hi crenca - Nobody here said money was a sole factor for anything. Please don't push the discussion down that hole. 

 

My suggestion is that it will now be very complicated for Ayre to implement MQA down the road should it chose to do so. If you take money out of the equation, the reasons for implementing MQA could be to please customers who want to listen to the format, check a box on the spec sheet (because everyone needs to keep the lights on and pay for employee health insurance etc...), make the best of a bad situation by trying to get the best quality from MQA files because without decoding/rendering the quality may be much worse, etc...

 

Given Ayre's public comments about MQA and a co-inventor's personal life, I can't imagine 1) MQA ever wanting to do business with Ayre (let's face it the volume isn't that large), and 2. People ever taking Ayre serious again, if it went back on its word and supported the format. Thus, if there is money to be made or emotions can be set aside, these two aforementioned points still may stop Ayre from moving forward. They can't control who MQA does business with and the hit to the company's reputation could be larger than the cost of not implementing MQA. 

 

Those two things make it very hard for Ayre to ever change positions. In the short term it's a good business move to come out against MQA because you're seen as the honest company who wants to stick it to the man and save consumers from the evil doers. In the long run, if MQA takes hold (this will be determined by the labels, not any hifi manufacturer), these companies are shooting themselves in the foot. In business, it's not a good thing to shut out future options, no matter how bleak they seem at the moment. As many in this thread say, options are a good thing. 

 

I'm all for honesty and encourage it here on CA. In fact, I sent Charles a PM a few weeks ago thanking him for some information he provided in a different thread and saying I was appreciative of him taking time to educate people on some topics. However, we must all consider the reasons for such perceived honesty, whether it's related to MQA or otherwise. What's in it for Ayre to make public statements about MQA? There are altruistic reasons and there are monetary business reasons. We can't include the former and automatically exclude the latter just because it fits our narratives. 

 

 

Your reasoning is very sound Chris. But, although other companies have not been as (negatively) vocal as Mr. Hansen about MQA, they have stated they will not support the format (Schiit comes to mind). I also read from a Naim employee on their forum, that the Meridian people came to Naim to make a pitch for MQA. Naim politely declined. Of course, if MQA does catch on, manufacturers might have to swallow their pride and implement it in their gear. 

 

I think though, that we are a long way from seeing MQA being a viable thriving format, if ever. 

[Indydan]

7 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

I said, just the opposite. It doesn't all come down to money and money isn't the single factor driving anything. 

 

Think about how much money Ayre could possibly bring to MQA ltd. We're talking peanuts compared to the LG v30 phone and other manufacturers. Ayre is inconsequential to the MQA business plan. I don't know that to be 100% true, it's just my guess. 

 

 

 

 

 

Well that is the challenge MQA faces. Ayre, or any other specialist manufacturer of audio gear on their own, sells too few units to make MQA viable. But, MQA needs as many as these relatively small specialist manufacturers it can get.

 

I don't believe MQA will be implemented in consumer level electronics like Sony, LG or Samsung, that sell many thousands of units. People who buy phones and 100$ Blu Ray players don't care about that stuff. There is no point for Samsung to pay royalties to MQA, for a feature their costumers don't know or care about.

 

The companies likely to adopt MQA are the specialist audio companies, that sell much lower volume. It sounds to me, like MQA needs Ayre, PS Audio, Schiit, Naim, Rega, etc, much more than those companies need MQA.

[Indydan]

2 minutes ago, The Computer Audiophile said:

 

Certainly. Many have said they don't like MQA and that's a respectable position. But, most have left the door open and have refused to go after Bob Stuart personally. I don't really care which route manufacturers take (personal attack on Bob, expressing dislike for MQA, or enthusiasm for MQA). I just wanted to make the point that things will be hard for Ayre in the future, should it want to implement MQA. That's all. 

 

 

 

LG just put it in a phone. I'm willing to bet the large manufacturers will do MQA, in part because it's a badge on the front of the receiver and a check mark on the spec sheet. Those companies are 100% about bottom line. If MQA sells units, they'll do it.. If not having MQA hinders sales, they'll have it in a heartbeat. 

 

As you know, I don't have a crystal ball. This is all my speculation based on research and conversations. 

 

I am a little shocked by LG putting it in a phone! The average non audiophile who listens to music on a phone, has no idea what PCM, DSD or MQA is! It is probably a case of people buying a product based on marketing and buzzwords. The more logos on the box, the better it is, even if they don't know what the logos mean...

 

It is discouraging that people (sheeple) are so malliable. 

[Indydan]

MQA will be very successful.

 

MQA will be tired of winning. MQA will win win win.

 

Make MQA great again! 

 

 

[Indydan]

Well, TAS has done their best to promote MQA in the last week. Not one, but two articles enthusiastically promoting MQA. First this one:

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/the-politics-of-mqa/

 

And then one by Robert Harley. He throws everything AND the kitchen sink into his article to justify MQA. He calls MQA a paradigm shift, a revolution...  He conflates MQA with the great scientific discoveries of the last 2 centuries; and in a roundabout way, Bob Stuart with great scientific minds like Newton and Einstein. Just over the top and delusional in my opinion. Articles like this make me even more suspicious of MQA, rather than making me enthusiastic about it.

 

http://www.theabsolutesound.com/articles/let-the-revolution-begin/

[Indydan]

44 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

There wasn't a lot of enthusiasm for MQA anywhere I saw. I interrupted a conversation between an MQA rep and the Roon people trying to get a coke. He told they were trying to do business here. Really? I talked with Andrew Quint of The Absolute Sound. He and Robert Harley were not happy with the 300 negative responses to their articles. And my part of it of course.

 

Now some in the press probably would have liked to talk about MQA in some of the seminars but didn't. Maybe because I was sitting in the second row.

 

Did you run into the gentleman from Berkeley Audio, who wanted to know who you were in the TAS comments section? 

[Indydan]

Maybe PeterV and FredericV should get a room...

[Indydan]

16 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

To all the malcontents here, thanks for reading my posts. If you don't like MQA don't buy it, I am good with that.

. FWIW MQA will not make you gain weight, cause heart disease or cancer. Even if you spend the extra $10 a month no one will force you to listen to it, you can still play the FLAC versions of every MQA track.

Please make your crusade more meaningful, why not go take on the tobacco industry?

 

 

 

If anybody here sounds like they are on a crusade, it is you. It seems you have made it your life project to defend MQA. 

[Indydan]

26 minutes ago, PeterSt said:

 

 

I don't know what kind of troll your are. A mad one I suppose. 

What is your urge to be all over this thread ? can you help yourself ? or is it too late for that ?

 

If you "like" his posts in this thread, check out this thread he started. 

 

 

 

[Indydan]

2 hours ago, christopher3393 said:

 

I'll wait for Chris C. to weigh in. I may have crossed a line.

Don't worry. You have done a good thing in outing him.

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, witchdoctor said:

Do you ever go to Galaxy Studios in Mol Belgium? If so tell Wilfried the witchdoctor loves auro 3D and to stop by my immersive thread here on CA. They are mixing in 9.1 for music and 14.1 for movies a lot over there.

 

https://www.galaxystudios.com/

Did you get a research grant from Galaxy Studios? From MQA or Bob Stuart?

[Indydan]

I don't know if it has been mentioned, but MQA is not Bob Stuart's first try to implement an audio format. The format on DVD-Audio discs called Meridian lossless packaging was also created by his company Meridian (MLP).

 

MLP failed for audio*. MQA will also. 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Meridian_Lossless_Packing

 

*MLP has been successful with its implementation on Blu Ray with Dolby True-HD. 

[Indydan]

5 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

 

At some point (maybe now?), this is straight-up MQA forum spam. 

 

 

Mr. Hansen has written about this in some detail. When I see the over the top efforts of some people, to constantly push MQA into the conversation, I am inclined to believe him.  

[Indydan]

11 minutes ago, witchdoctor said:

One of the BEST musical sources in the world dCS Vivaldi One does MQA (of course):

https://www.dcsltd.co.uk/news/

That is because DCS knows there are a lot of gullible people who will complain that a 30 000$ component does not even have MQA. That is also why some manufacturers have included DSD in their DACs, so they do not lose sales to people who do not know better.

 

It does not mean they love DSD or MQA. 

[Indydan]

3 minutes ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Never understood MLP when FLAC would have worked just fine.  Oh wait, the "F" in FLAC stands for "free".  No opportunity to monetize.

 

Exactly. MQA exists for the same reason. 

[Indydan]

3 hours ago, witchdoctor said:

Screw the iphone. Tidal is 30% owned by sprint. Get a new LG phone and some good cans and you are are a moblile, agile hirez road warrior:

 

https://www.whathifi.com/news/lg-v30-first-phone-mqa-audio-and-oled-fullvision-display

Sounds like a commercial...

[Indydan]

On 10/26/2017 at 6:05 AM, Charles Hansen said:

 

Hello Samuel,

 

Thanks for the info. I don't know why some people do such shilling. Are they paid to do so, or are they just so insecure as to need "approval" from some authority figure like Bob Stuart or Caelin Gabriel. (The fact that Caelin Gabriel chose a Japanese sounding name for his company makes me very suspicious right off the bat. Why would he want to potential customers to think that he was based in Japan? It's kind of the reverse of Korean company Astell & Kern who deliberately chose a British-sounding name for their company. It makes the opposite impression on me than what was intended, as it clearly implies that they are being deceptive from the ground up. Then you get really weird things like designed in the Netherlands, made in China equipment from a company that chose a grammatically-incorrect Spanish name of "Prima Luna" - first moon - it should be "Luna Prima". Their latest ad is obviously attacking Audio Research and claims that ARC's PCB are wave soldered "overseas" - I doubt this is true - while completely glossing over the fact that all of their equipment is made in Chinese sweat-shops.)

 

And people wonder why so many think high-end audio is a joke...

 

Mr. Hansen, I enjoy reading your posts, and I appreciate Ayre components. I am fortunate to have a dealer within walking distance from my home who sells Ayre, as well as Shunyata gear. I don't know Caelin Gabriel personally, but I have communicated with him on What's best forum a few times. Mr. Gabriel is a straight shooter. There is no deception on his part in choosing his company's name, nor in his technology. I consider myself to be a discerning person, and I do a lot of research and demo gear before I buy. I can say from experience, that Shunyata gear is worth it. 

 

Many cable companies create a marketing mystique around their cables. Shunyata does not. They are the company that best explains in technological terms why cables make a difference. My dealer only carries brands and equipment that are worthwhile and works, while being priced accordingly with regards to their performance. I know a good number of brands that tried to get this dealer to carry their products, only to be refused after the employees of the dealer tried out their stuff. And yes, Meridian tried hard recently to get this dealer to sell its gear. They were politely refused (after the dealer tried out its gear). 

 

I am sure that you know the people at my dealer. They will certainly vouch for Shunyata products if you speak to them.  I say this with respect, and with humour; Mr. Gabriel, like yourself, seems to not be shy about expressing his opinions. Maybe the two of you could have an online debate. It would be popcorn worthy no doubt!

 

I have linked a video in which Mr. Gabriel explains one of his concepts, DTCD. I would enjoy reading your comments about this concept if you care to offer your insights and opinion.

 

Regards

 

 

[Indydan]

4 minutes ago, mansr said:

ROTFL. Show me one, just one, "technical" explanation from Shunyata that is even scientifically meaningful, never mind accurate.

As usual, you are negative and overly skeptical. Did you even watch the video I posted? I will not debate this issue with you. You have your opinions, I have mine. I have tried a lot of power cables, and know from experience that Shunyata gear works very well. I speak from experience. 

 

Caelin Gabriel does not need for people like me to promote his credentials. I also want to avoid looking like a fanboy or shill like a certain poster who touts MQA constantly. But, Gabriel is an engineer and former researcher for the NSA. He is not just some angry guy on the internet.

 

That's it. I will happily discuss my experience with products if people are interested, but I will not engage in a useless forum debate or argument. I am expressing my experience and appreciation of Shunyata products. I do not wish to spend energy and time to defend myself, or a company I have no ties with (beyond being a customer). 

[Indydan]

58 minutes ago, Charles Hansen said:

 

It's an interesting idea. And pretty much every cable company has their philosophy they espouse. The vast majority of them make some sort of sense, in at least a "hand-waving" way. However the linked video seemed to imply the "DTCD" was far and away the single most important parameter.

 

That always sets off alarm bells for me. I have "designed" some cables that Cardas made to Ayre's specifications, and my experience is somewhat different in that I find many, many factors will affect the "sound" of a cable.

 

One of my biggest gripes with cable companies is that they are almost universally designed to sound "impressive" and "spectacular" in a quick 5 minute back-and-forth demo at your dealer. This simply does not work for me. For example with power conditioners, I have found that the only reliable test is to put into your system for at least 3 weeks. This allows it to fully break in and for you to become accustomed to the sound.

 

It's only when you REMOVE the PLC that you can get a clear picture of how it helps and how it harms.

 

The other ridiculous thing is the pricing. I find it extremely hard to believe that any pari of speaker cables is worth as much as a pair of our top=-line monoblock amps. I've built some prototypes of interconnects and speaker cables tat would retail for between $300 and $500 that are simply the best sounding cables I've every used. (And no, I don't think they would do especially well on the DTCD test.

 

Cheers!

 

PS - Full disclosure - I've never tried any Shunyata cables. It is possible that they would become my new favorites. But my experience has always been the opposite - when I listen to the latest "must-have" cables, I am always left unimpressed overall. There will be certain aspects of their performance whereby I can understand how someone would be impressed, but I could never live with them long term.

 

Thanks for providing your opinion! I do agree that some cables are ridiculously expensive. The Nordost Odin series and Siltech's top cables are more expensive than some very good complete systems. I don't have any of those cables! 

[Indydan]

59 minutes ago, Charles Hansen said:

 

You mean he's not like me?

 

Well, I don't know if I would call you angry. You aren't shy about expressing your opinions. There is nothing wrong with that. Your point of view does come from experience and success in the audio business. 

 

But, most of the time, a person doesn't really know who they are talking to on the Internet. 

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, psjug said:

So the crappy power cord only allows a burst of 500 amps?  How much does your amplifier's transformer want?

 

It is instantaneous current that is important. The theory is explained in another video I believe. The more current that an amplifier or source can get in one shot, the faster the capacitors fill up. The power supply emits noise when the amplifier is taking in current. The more instantaneous current, the faster the capacitors fill up and the power supply emits noise for a shorter duration. 

 

Here is the explanation from Caelin Gabriel from the WBF:

 

 

Some of you have basic misunderstandings about AC power delivery and power rectification specifically. Without some basic knowledge you will never understand the subject.

It is necessary to understand the manner in which power supplies in consumer electronics function. The integrated circuits in consumer electronics require several DC voltages to operate. It is the job of the power supply to convert alternating current (AC) from the wall outlet to direct current (DC) voltages that supply power to the component's electronic circuits.There are basically two types of power supplies: transformer and transformer-less (switched mode) power supplies. Both use rectifiers that are essentially electronic switches that alternately turn on and off in response to the input AC voltage. It is the rectifiers that convert the AC voltage to a pulsating DC voltage.. This voltage is stored and filtered by the power supply storage capacitors that provide the relatively stable DC voltages to the PCBs and integrated circuits.Unlike a light bulb, fan or simple motor, audio/video power supplies do not pull current in a constant or linear fashion. Rather, they pull current in instantaneous pulses as the rectifiers switch on to fill the storage capacitors. This is as true for low current devices such as CD players and pre-amplifiers as it is for high current amplifiers. The rectifiers turn on and off at the positive and negative voltage peaks of the AC waveform. These current pulses have high frequency harmonics up to 50 times the frequency of the AC power line. This places a great demand upon the AC power circuit and associated connections to deliver current without significant impedance to the flow.

Placing anything in front of an electronics system that restricts, impedes or slows instantaneous impulse AC power will often noticeably degrade the performance of the system. This is why most electronics manufacturers discourage the use of power conditioners. They understand that traditional low-pass power “conditioners" interfere with instantaneous current flow and interfere with the performance of their carefully engineered power-supplies.

How do you measure current pulses?

Conventional AC power testing methods and equipment are not designed to detect the volume of current delivered during the brief conduction period (milliseconds) and the corresponding impedance during the period of conduction. Multimeters measure voltage and current averaged over a period of one or more AC cycles. Common current probes are too slow to give an accurate reading of current delivery during a single current pulse that has a period of only a few milliseconds.

What is DTCD - dynamic transient current delivery?

DTCD is method of current analysis that measures instantaneous current delivery in the context of a pulsed current draw. In layman’s terms, it is a way of measuring current performance into typical electronic component power supplies. It allows the measurement of pulsed transient current through a variety of AC power products, including: power wiring, outlets, distribution panels, terminals, connectors, power cords and portable power distribution boxes. 

Shunyata Research developed a DTCD ANALYZER specifically designed to perform DTCD measurements. The analyzer simulates the pulsed current draw of typical electronic power supplies. It supplies a precision reference voltage to the DUT (device under test) and measures its ability to conduct current during a short gate time (milliseconds). The DTCD ANALYZER provides a read-out of the equivalent current (DTCD-I) that the DUT could deliver in a one second time period. It also calculates the equivalent voltage drop (DTCD-Vd) and corresponding impedance (DTCD-Ƶ).

And to save you some time here are some of the most common misconceptions about DTCD graphs.

Why is the amperage in the graphs so high?

You may be thinking that your CD player only pulls about one amp of current and your amplifier only draws about 12 amps. So how can a test be valid that shows the cord pulling hundreds of amps of current?

Power supplies only pull current for about 5% to 10% (or less) of the AC duty cycle. During the conduction period, when the cable is actually conducting current, the instantaneous current could be hundreds of amps, but the longer term average is only one to 20 amps, depending upon the device and the load.

Note: If a power supply is drawing 10 amps of current (as measured by a standard current meter), then the peak currents would be 10 to 20 times higher or 100-200 amps of instantaneous current.

—

It appears from the graph that the standard power cord has voltage drop of more than 50%. How is this possible?

The answer is similar to the answer above. Since the conduction period is short and fast, the cable is presented with an instantaneous change in current. The impedance and inductance of the cable resists the change in current and causes a short term voltage drop across the cable. Of course, there is not a sustained or significant average voltage drop. Otherwise, the equipment wouldn't function.

The DTCD Analyzer uses a source voltage of 30 volts to represent a typical difference voltage between the power supplies storage capacitors and the peak voltage of the line. So, the graph is indicating the amount of voltage drop between the voltage on the capacitors and the line voltage - not the difference between the peak line voltage and ground.

Note the peak of the standard power line(120 volts AC) is about 163 volts (Peak) depending and what the crest factor (1.35 typical) of the power line. What the test shows is that the standard power cable under these test conditions would have a 15 volt drop in the power cable while sourcing 130 amps. While the Venom-3 power cable would only have a 5 volt drop and have the ability to provide almost twice the current 230 amps. – at a third of the cable voltage drop. 

Note again that the conduction period is 1/10 to 1/20 of the power line cycle, so peak currents are 10 to 20 times higher than measured RMS currents or rated currents. A power amp at full power can be drawing 10 amps, resulting in peak current draw during the charging period of 100 to 200 amps. If the power amp needs 130 amps of current during the peak charging period, the standard power cable would have a cable voltage drop of 15 volts. This would limit the ability of the input stage of the power amp to fully charge, which effectively would create a relative low line condition as the input stage of the power amp will not be able to fully charge. To put it another way, the input line voltage has been reduced from 120VAC to about 110VAC!

—

Microseconds seems like an unreasonably short period of time to measure current. Why is that?

Since power supplies pull current in pulses and the pulse duration is typically less than 10% of the duty cycle, the conduction period is typically 200-800 microseconds. The time scale for the graphs is about 50 microseconds from beginning to end. Notice that the slope of the measured waveforms levels out and stabilizes within that 50 microsecond timeframe. Therefore, it is unnecessary to display information beyond the 50 microseconds. In other words, the measured differences would be the same even if we extended the time period beyond that shown.

—

If the standard power cord slows current delivery, doesn't it just take a bit longer to fill the storage capacitors?

This is true and explains why the power supply will function within normal average voltage and current requirements. However, that does not mean that there are not audible differences between a cord with better DTCD. A cord with higher instantaneous current delivery will fill the storage capacitors faster. Therefore, the rectifiers are on for a shorter period of time. The longer it takes to fill the storage capacitors means that the peak of the charging waveform has passed while still trying to charge the storage capacitors, thus not able to fully charge the storage capacitors. Also, note the volt drop in the power cable limits the ultimate voltage level that the filter capacitors can be charged to. 

A power cable able to supply 300 to 400 amps of charging current will have a much shorter charging time than a cable only able to supply 100 amps. The 100 amp power cable will have voltage drops and resistance that limits its ability to fully charge the input capacitors. As the charging will not be finished before the peak of the power line charging cycle has passed. 

This reduces the amount of time that the power supply is in a low impedance, open condition to the power line. When the rectifiers are on, power line noise is more likely to be transmitted through to the power supply.

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?16172-DTCD-Explained

 

[Indydan]

3 hours ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

Well since I actually know Andrew and you probably don't I was pointing out the apples to oranges comparison he uses in evaluations something we have talked at length about. I've had the Aurender A-10 in my office it didn't get past my first reference album Pet Sounds.

 

Andrew wrote music reviews for a long period of time before he recently started reviewing equipment.  My issue with him is what is much superior? Unlike you I had a great sounding stereo system in my youth so to me there isn't a much superior to me only increments of improvement. I chalk up his superlatives to inexperience.

 

Stereophile claims there is something wrong with the filters in the Aurender. It hinders sound quality of playback of non MQA files, and Atkinson supports it with measurements. If true, of course MQA will sound better! 

 

"However, the A10's misapplication of the MQA reconstruction filter to non-MQA files stored on its internal drive means we must withhold a full recommendation for the A10 until this problem has been corrected.—John Atkinson"

 

In the comments section on TAS, Quint says there is no problem, and blames "web dwellers" for spreading misinformation. 

 

Andrew Quint  Vinylfan3 • 7 hours ago

"It is unfortunate that Aurender's software issue, now resolved, was seized upon by web-dwellers displeased with MQA, maligning an excellent product in the process. As Vinylfan3 implies, MQA-decoding is only one aspect of the A10s functionality - it will matter to some potential purchasers and not at all to others. I also feel it's disingenuous for Steve (a decent guy; we had several substantive discussions at RMAF and since) to suggest that the future status of MQA depends on the fate of Tidal. The codec has many more irons in the fire besides a single streaming service."

 

I assume Quint and Atkinson are talking about the same problem or non problem. 

 

Someone seems to be mistaken: TAS or Stereophile?

 

 

[Indydan]

18 minutes ago, Rt66indierock said:

 

There was an update to the A-10 on December 14. My sonic evaluation was with the latest update.

 

No telling I haven't talked with Andrew about it.

 

Why can't both TAS and Stereophile be wrong?

 

That is a possibility. 

[Indydan]

1 hour ago, mansr said:

The Mytek DACs have the same issue. Unless the MQA decoder is completely disabled, one of those horrid filters is used for all PCM.

 

The DAC manufacturers should have built the DAC to switch off the MQA filter, whenever a non MQA file is played. This is either incompetence, or it is designed that way on purpose.

 

If it is designed that way on purpose, why? I hate to sound like a conspiracy theorist, but the only reason to do this on purpose, is to make the MQA albums sound better than their PCM equivalents. I would almost prefer it be down to incompetence! The alternative is a little sleazy. 

 

Another explanation, is that MQA forces DAC manufacturers to implement the MQA filters this way. With the NDAs MQA makes manufacturers sign (someone correct me if I am wrong, but I believe manufacturers must sign NDAs), we will probably never know. 

[Indydan]

9 hours ago, Samuel T Cogley said:

 

Don't feel too sorry for Mr. Scoggins.  He has an agenda here as he's telling the Hoffmanites:

 

 

 

He also criticizes CA on his Facebook page (see January 9). 

 

"Computer audiophile is a super unfriendly forum I must say. Why does every audio forum turn into a snake pit of personal attacks?"

 

Some of the replies to that post:

 

Lee Scoggins There is no floor on the stupid over there.

 

Lee Scoggins I like Chris but I think this is a true statement. I have witnessed him being very dogmatic at times and the moderation of discussions is often MIA.

 

Jim Spainhour That's a tough forum to moderate

1

Manage

 

Like

 · 2d

Lee Scoggins He could at least try.

 

 

Peter Veth It is a shame that after 10 years Computeraudiophile has become a click bait driven forum. Normal ethical rules are absent and fierce personal attacks are simply ignored. I know this from unfortunate personal experience. When I complained and revealed the true identity of the person who dared to threaten me in my business and private life, I got banned. To be honest, it feels like a relief!

 

He is friends with Peter Veth. Wasn't Veth banned from CA for arguing with someone about MQA (he was pro MQA), or something like that?

 

www.facebook.com/lee.scoggins.9