A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[sandyk]

6 hours ago, austinpop said:

Again folks... while the PSU design detail discussion is interesting, it’s OT for this thread.

 

i marked a couple of posts OT just as a gentle reminder.

 

I simply answered questions ,although they were off topic instead of ignoring the poster

Please remove my off topic posts

Alex

[sandyk]

Re the link given in  post  14474 : https://www.whatsbestforum.com/threads/crystal-disc-us-1600-was-played-with-genesis-speaker.11773/page-16#post-219732

 

Note the 1st paragraph of post 331. I have been reporting that here for 10 years now.

[sandyk]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

To clarify: listening experiences with PSUs are very much on topic.

 

The OT reference was to posts like #14523...

 Rajiv

 Are you moonlighting as a Clairvoyant these days ?   

[sandyk]

3 hours ago, afrancois said:

It took me little time the see that sites as HDTracks use compression. I stopped buying from them.

 

 My understanding is that HDTracks supplies the material as given to them by the Record Companies , (even though initially some should not have been sent to them as High Res) and does not do any other processing that will affect the integrity of the supplied material.

 I have even be able to compare the contents of one of my DVD-As against a decoded .flac Download from

HD Tracks, and they were digitally identical as shown by Checksums. 

 

[sandyk]

7 hours ago, numlog said:

I got away using a 5A LM338 LPS for my Ryzen 1700, really cheap and simple to build.

 

 

 Did you check out the LT1083 which also has a much lower dropout voltage and good ripple rejection too ?

LT1083,4,5fg.pdf

[sandyk]

11 hours ago, marce said:

Like a LED!

Quote

Exactly, LED's generate RFI/EMI and potentially associated noise. -luisma

One of these fast colour changing little LEDs would probably wipe out TV reception too!   

(5mm Fast Color Changing LED - T1 3/4 RGB LED )

 

luisma

Quite often, modern LEDs are used as LOW noise voltage references, as seen in the attached schematic of the LOW noise Jung Voltage Regulator.

Alex

 

[sandyk]

On ‎7‎/‎22‎/‎2019 at 7:21 AM, afrancois said:

As I mentioned in a previous post, a good CD player is hard to beat. I sure hope the EtherRegen will put our streaming solutions on par with the best CD transports. 

 

 The Ether Regen may very well improve your streaming solutions, where the ultimate sound quality is governed by source material and the equipment used by the provider.

However ripping of your own CDs using this kind of recent technology has the potential to even outperform CD players such as the PerfectWavTransport which plays CDs from internal system memory, and has the capability of easily outperforming most conventional CD players.

  I don't doubt though, that many of the technical innovations described in this thread are closing the gap to the point that many will find the SQ of their streaming much closer to that of the very best of the local solutions.

[sandyk]

16 hours ago, sunny_time_99 said:

Hi, this always brings me to the point that no connector is the better connector. whenever possible, I connect the wires directly or only on one side.

regards

sunny

The better Power Supplies will already have substantial connectors mounted on the rear panel typically, perhaps even using 3 pin XLR sockets . With lower current PSUs there may be a worthwhile advantage in using the lockable 3 pin mini XLR sockets at that end,  as I am doing. They are far more reliable than the barrel types long term,although the one used in my Uptone USB Regen has proven to be a very reliable high quality type despite many insertions. A major problem is the very mediocre quality of many of the readily available plugs for the device end of the cables.

[sandyk]

On ‎9‎/‎12‎/‎2019 at 2:29 PM, Chopin75 said:

What DAC and LPS/ power cables are u using? The ifi products are helpful in eliminating inherent noise in your system so I am wondering if there are still some noisy parts that still need to be addressed? 

  

Shielding of internal SSDs perhaps ?

[sandyk]

11 hours ago, [email protected] said:

possible reasons

it is almost useless
it is harmful

i belive that you can get lower impedance with ILIM circuit, but i prefer have lower noise 

 

At those kinds of already very low noise levels , a LOW and FLAT Output Impedance over a very wide bandwidth is more desirable with PC Audio than the ultimate in noise level. This applies just as much to Digital areas as it does to Analogue Audio areas.

( My apologies for the Off Topic response.)

Alex

[sandyk]

Alexy

I suggest that you discuss this with Alex Crespi.

I am only reporting my own observations

Regards

Alex K.

[sandyk]

On ‎10‎/‎26‎/‎2019 at 3:50 AM, k-man said:

PLEEAASEEE let there be an AS article on the etherRegen!! So far we've seen the whole trilogy of Rendu reviews (micro, ultra, optical) yet nothing on any Uptone products 

 

Unfortunately , such an article is likely to come under heavy attack by several members with demands for measurements and DBTs to be performed .   

To quote an ex member of this forum

Quote

any whiff of commercial enterprise is immediately dismissed & demeaned as snake-oil & not to be trusted

 

[sandyk]

22 minutes ago, Blackmorec said:

In my experience with low power DC power supplies you have to give them between 100 and 200 hours of playing music under a dynamic load before seriously judging their performance. During that time they’ll change for both the better and worse. Just when you think your done and it sounds really good, it’ll take a large step backwards and really rattle your confidence. The better and more revealing your system becomes, the more disrupting this running in period. Because of the low voltage, cables often take quite a while to settle....just a cable on its own is bad enough....cable + ps 😫

Blackmorec

 This is due to the additional forming time of the large value electrolytic capacitors .Numerous constructors of the John Linsley Hood designed PSU add-on reported the exact same cycling symptoms as you are reporting here, with the smaller value 4,700uFelectros in the capacitance multiplier area. It took about 72 hours of continuous use to fully stabilise. At one stage it sounded like there was something seriously wrong with it.

Many larger value Audiophile grade capacitors can even take several months to fully stabilise.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

3 minutes ago, seeteeyou said:

Let's say the "final destination" requires 5V / 1.5A (e.g. JCAT NET Card FEMTO) while we're choosing PP2 with 9V output, "Pre-Regulator Output" could be 7V while "Output Voltage" must be 5.0V accordingly. Each stage of regulation requires the same -2V increment, the 1st stage is going from 9V to 7V while the 2nd stage is going from 7V to 5V respectively.

 The actual voltage overhead requirements will also depend on the type of voltage regulator used, with LDO (Low Drop Out) types such as the  LT1083/LT1084/LT1085 needing a little over 1V, and the older generic types needing close to 3V .

[sandyk]

49 minutes ago, Nenon said:

 

Of the cables? Here is a silver/gold DC cable with JSSG360 shielding and cotton sleeving I made this morning for a fellow in Chicago to try.  

Just remember that thick, fairly inflexible cables can put a lot of strain on your typical D.C. sockets if they don't go in to them without a bend, and they should ideally be replaced by heavier duty type sockets such as XLR etc. if possible, and lockable types preferably.

[sandyk]

1 hour ago, rickca said:

Can someone please explain why this unit would have a 400VA transformer if it can only do 5A continuous current?  Even at 25V, isn't that way overspec?  Clearly I don't understand enough about power supply design. 

" The DC4 uses a much larger case than the DC3, and can be fitted with 1, 2 or 3 outputs"

 I suspect that this refers to a 3 separate outputs version.

When using a typical Full Wave Bridge , Capacitor input load for example , the DC current out is only about 62% of the
Secondary A.C. current . So in your single output example, you would need to use something larger than a 160VA transformer, with the next in the range typically 300VA.

Perhaps Sean has standardised on a 400VA transformer to his own specifications ?

[sandyk]

32 minutes ago, Nenon said:

We just did not call it with the technical term low 'output impedance'. I called it 'quality'. And absolutely - the low output impedance is one of the main things that makes a LPS 'good quality'.

 

 

 It isn't just low output impedance that is needed. The impedance also needs to remain as flat as possible from almost D.C. to 1MHz .

 If the Output Z is a little lower at say 100kHz due to the use of Low ESR filter capacitors (or lower value filter capacitors due to size constraints) there will still be a small but noticeable increase in HF detail. This even applies to devices such as the original USB Regen which does also impart a minor boost in HF detail while performing it's intended function very well, even when using only a 12V Li Ion battery to power it into a lower current load such as a USB memory stick.

 In fact, you can still hear the influence of the type and value of the capacitors used in the preceding supply, to some extent, despite it's internal voltage regulators.

 This isn't of course unique, and applies to many physically small devices.

[sandyk]

50 minutes ago, Superdad said:

I’m guessing not too many of you here would agree. So you’d best stop fussing over power supplies and DC cables, etc.—because you are all delusional! 

 

The sad thing is that several of our prominent members from the Objective side appear to  believe the same rubbish .

 Not only can the PSU area affect what we hear, it can also affect what we see with Video, not just with Analogue, but Digital Audio and Video as well, even BOTH at the same time with Digital Video.

[sandyk]

47 minutes ago, ASRMichael said:

Well done Mark at Sablon for creating such a great USB cable at a sensible price.

 

 Just remember to order cables that are no longer than absolutely needed. They ALL degrade a little with length.

 The better cables will continue to work without errors at longer lengths than most of the cheap generic cables though with their often thinner gauge copper wire, especially the +5V and 0 volt ("earth return ") wires if USB power is needed..

[sandyk]

On ‎2‎/‎14‎/‎2020 at 3:29 PM, soares said:

Just received my kit Furutech + Mundorf Wire for my OPPO 205.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Oppo-BDP-93-95-103D-105D-UDP-203-205-Kit-Furutech-Inlet-R-IEC-Mundorf-Wire-/123213854445

For 150$ you get a notable better SQ in what concerns timbre and stage. After all this years still surprised how cables make such a difference... 🙂

Cheers Jorge

The replacement with a Furutech IEC inlet can only result in what can ONLY be a MINOR improvement in performance and reliability due to a more reliable low resistance contact, DESPITE it still using a standard grade mains cable plugging into it.

To take full advantage of the Furutech IEC socket you should also replace the existing cable's IEC plug with a similar high grade IEC plug !

When we first do something like this modification, the differences often appear to be much greater than they really are, although they may indeed be there. Reversing the modification under non sighted conditions will normally show this.  

( I would be among the last person that most members could call Anti-subjective, but just being realistic )

 

Perhaps a better solution may be to bypass the IEC socket entirely ?.

 You should be able to achieve at least as good results by chopping off the mains plug and fitting a 2 pin plug to it as before.
 A small backing plate could be made to cover the I.E.C. socket's hole, with a hole in it for the entry of the cable , using a rubber grommet,  and a mains cable retaining clip to secure the cable internally.
(Similar to https://www.noldtrading.com.au/nylon-cable-clamp-p-clip.html?source=googlebase&gclid=Cj0KCQiAyp7yBRCwARIsABfQsnSdftbPy0DC5M6XUYAfsWAeeajOerVN3Ir8_lUHot0pQSGJ-UXnGXMaAvICEALw_wcB)
 There would then be no advantage to using the Mundorf wire for the final few inches, as the small remaining resistance of the plug and socket connection has been eliminated , as well as a soldered or crimped connection on the Furutech socket itself .

A few inches of the exotic Mundorf wire can only help to compensate a little for the added resistance of the mating of the plug and socket, and perhaps the connections to the IEC socket. There is nothing magic about using this exotic and expensive wire for the final few inches of the A.C. mains supply lead other than perhaps reducing plug/socket resistance slightly for compensation purposes .

[sandyk]

8 hours ago, bodiebill said:

Hard to identify the key reason for the 1 box setup to sound better (to my ears), as so many things are different, including the SW. But given that it does and that so many devices can be removed, makes me prefer it for now. 

More chance of Earth Loops etc, when you need to use separate PSUs. Not all Earth Loops cause obvious symptoms, but may result in a slight haze with low level detail. It's best to have a single 0 Volt/ "Earth Reference" where possible.

[sandyk]

12 hours ago, R1200CL said:

Maybe you’re both correct 😀

 

Can the explanation be that SMPS affects systems in other ways ? Maybe small EMI or whatever demons produced by the SMPS create something we’re not so aware about yet ?

 

Can extensive use of JSSG360 techniques and power conditioners make the demons vanish ?

 

I guess this is a discussion for another tread, but still you are both correct 😀

 

I suppose if @Superdad wants to, if not already done, he can present diagrams based on a JS-2, battery, and the SMPS powering the LPS-1.2. But will it help, if problem is outside his control ?

I found a worthwhile improvement with my STB's  Coax SPDIF Out ,after earthing the STB's case.

(The STB has an internal SMPS PSU) However, after doing a series of further small improvements including internal earthing improvements in other gear including the DAC and Preamplifier, I realised that I may have inadvertently been also causing a small Earth Loop as my 15W/Ch. Class A amplifier uses a 3pin IEC mains socket.

 I then inserted a 10 ohm resistor in the Earth to the STB case with a further small improvement.

Each small improvement that I made, was in itself barely audible, and I would have had trouble verifying the improvements with DBT, however the total effects were additive and  quite worthwhile.

 

Alex

[sandyk]

44 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I've always hated blue LEDs, and the intense ones may be a health hazard:

http://texyt.com/bright+blue+leds+annoyance+health+risks

 Actually, that article isn't completely correct. The original Blue LEDS were very pale,  a lighter almost "Sky blue",  and needed a considerably higher operating current than the modern Blue LEDs. You could still clearly see their internal structure when illuminated.

Many of those earlier Blue LEDs ,for some reason,  even had the leads reversed where the longer lead wasn't the +VE side.

[sandyk]

5 hours ago, magnuska said:

Entreq earth boxes should be placed away from metal. 

 

 Why ?

[sandyk]

On 7/28/2020 at 4:42 AM, Middy said:

I said before crack the screws loose and put a small shim or washer in the gap. 

Quote

"Use of a fancy linear power supply (such as our matching UltraCap LPS-1.2) is NOT required to get outstanding performance from the EtherREGEN. While high-quality power supplies make a nice difference most everywhere else in a music system, we personally are not hearing very much change with power supplies and the EtherREGEN (certainly owing to its great isolation and internal power networks). Yet others do report some benefit, so you are of course welcome to experiment within the +DC 7~12V range.  [Note: The original UltraCap LPS-1, with top setting of 7V, does not have enough current for the EtherREGEN. The UltraCap LPS-1.2, with its 9V and 12V settings can easily power an EtherREGEN.] " - Uptone Audio

 

One obvious answer  to those concerned about the case temperature would be to reduce the input voltage closer to the minimum +7V if practical. You would however need to use a PSU with say a minimum continuous output of 1.5A  which many cheap Linear PSUs using LM317T voltage regulators are capable of supplying. Confirm the manufacturers ratings first though, as some make ambitious claims , while not using adequate heatsinking for example, or under rated transformers.