A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[mozes]

26 minutes ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Actually the sCLK-EX can be free standing without an enclosure, as I received mine.  SOtM will afix the board to a 3.5 inch tray.  Once received you can insert the tray into a 3.5 inch HDD enclosure, which I would recommend, but you don't have to.

Yes that’s a good isea as well!

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks Moussa! I will need to get a firm grip if I want to go down the clock path at all. If I do I will most certainly send May a pm and ask her opinion when I have gained a firm one myself. For the moment I am just interested in it for the ethernet part of my system, but I want the ethernet part of my system to continue to live in its own little isolated world (as much as possible atleast) without sharing noises to the rest of my system. Lately after some more reading/thinking I am actually starting to be a bit sceptical to include the Aqvox switch in the sCLK-EX at all since it is the last device that connectes to my audio gears. My router is communicating with the TP-Link RE450 (wireless adapter) through wifi. The way I see it now is that the clock generator should actually be controlling the router and the wireless adapter only,  optimizing the wireless transmission. Adding sCLK-EZs to these devices will in fact add a possible noise path through the clock ICs. Having a battery powered word clock generator will hopefully limit those noises to a minimum. I think I will actually send BETSO a pm and ask them if their device can be used for this purpose to begin with and in the meantime maybe ask May´s opinion about this path. I might be heading into deep water, but that´s the way I like it!  

 

BTW. I also found this little valuable word clock generator that seems to be possible to run off batteries (9v).

https://www.thomann.de/se/black_lion_audio_micro_clock_mk2.htm?ref=search_rslt_clock+generator_316203_1

 

 

Looks like a good starting point as well.  

If you go down the sCLK clock, you will be happy with a $20 switch. Also if you are not planning to use the 4 taps of the sCLK clock board, then you are not getting the full value. Feel free to send me a PM anytime.

[mozes]

My sCLK-EX server: simply impressive!

I have been thinking of building my own server for a while now, and lately I have been inspired by Roy's post about his low powered server with the sCLK-EX board. Long story short, I decided to build my own server and see what I can accomplish. First, I would like thank and appreciate the contribution of Roy @romazwhose valuable contributions paved the road for my journey. Second, I like to thank @ElviaCaprice who has helped me throughout the build process. In fact, he was behind the concept and I simply implemented many of his ideas. I can't thank him enough! Third, kudos to SOTM and their amazing service, speed and flexibility in just implementing everything I asked them for with top notch workmanship.

 

 A short summary of server:

- Motherboard: Jetway NF596 mini ITX with Intel Celeron Braswell N3160 SOC

- Chassis: Silverstone ML06B

- OS hard drive: 64GB Intel SLC SSD with SOTM SATA II filter

- Data: 2TB 2.5 inch HDD

- sCLK-EX clock board

- Two tX-USBexp cards (one for data HDD and one for DAC)

- Mini PCIe to PCIe adapter (to install the second tX-USBexp card)

 

Chain:

Server>generic 2M USB cable (I am waiting for a Lush USB to arrive)>tXUSBultra1>Elijah Audio USB (15cm)> tXUSBultra2>Lush USB>DAC

 

sCLK-EX boards (2)

I had SOTM remove the first sCLK-EX board from one of my tXs and install it inside the server. The 4 clocks are allocated as follows:

Tap 1: tX-USBexp1

Tap 2: tX-USBexp2

Tap 3: Motherboard Master clock

Tap 4: 2 LAN clocks (via bridge)

 

My second sCLK-EX board (inside the tXUSBultra) now has its clock taps allocated as follows:

Tap 1: tX-USBultra1

Tap 2: tX-USBultra2 (via SMB)

Tap 3: D-Link switch (via SMB)

Tap 4: Asus Wireless bridge (via SMB)

 

Now my system has full sCLK-EX clocks all the way from the bridge to the DAC. Do you really need 8 clocks? of course not. one sCLK-EX board is enough and would probably give you 90% of the SQ. I felt that the clocking of the wireless bridge and the second tX-USBultra are redundant to some extent, but I did it because I already had the two boards.

 

It is now a very complicated server especially with power supplies as it needs 4 PSUs:

1-Motherboard ( 12VLifePo4 18AH battery)

2-tXUSBexp1 (LPS-1 7V)

3-tXUSBexp2 (LPS-1 7V)

4-sCLK-EX board (sPS-500 9V)

 

I can also get all the 3 SOTM components to be powered from a single source with minor moification.

 

My OS sits on the 64 SLC Intel SSD with SATAII filter and my music is stored on the 2TB HDD connected via USB 3.0 cable and powered by the tX-USBexp card. 

 

Sound:

This is very rough for now as I just received my gear yesterday and quickly set it up. All the new components and connections will take time to break in and settle. However, from the very first moment, it sounds magical in all aspects, transparency, depth and realism like I have never heard before in my system. I compare this leap to the leap from Brooklyn to Dave. I also believe that I still have a lot of SQ to gain by optimizing my power supplies as I am still powering the motherboard with a LifePO4 battery to be replaced soon by a sPS-500

 

[mozes]

I used Silverstone ML06B but you can use any chassis compatible with mini ITX motherboards. I don’t need SFX PSU so I used the space to mount the sCLK board. One caveat is the gap you end up with, so you need to find or DIY a plate to fill the SFX PSU opening.

[mozes]

I forgot to mention that I started with the Iso Regen in the chain and the sound was great. Later in the day, I removed it and the sound opened up with more depth and spatial cues.

My system is now at a level where the IR is the weak link. In the past, the  IR was magical in adding body and weight. 

[mozes]

3 hours ago, Lebouwsky said:

Decrapifiers are fixers, if the source is right there’s nothing to fix. It does make me wonder what’s the purpose of the tx-usb ultra though.

They do contribute to SQ, if you want to be at the bleeding edge. Also the it houses my sclk board that clocks my switch and router

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, austinpop said:

 

Congrats, Moussa! This looks awesome.

 

i am eagerly awaiting your extended listening impressions. With a system of this refinement, you will be amazed how much better the SQ will get with PSU upgrades.

Thanks Rajiv!

I find every small change now makes a very noticeable impact. For example I just replaced the 50cm SMB cable between my tX-USBultras to a 6inch cable and there you go a significant leap in SQ way beyond my expectations. Then I replaced a 1 meter SMB cable between the tX and bridge with a 12 inch cable and again another nice boost with Tidal. These changes are not subtle, it only takes 2 sec to realize the improvement! 

Still I am still familiarizing myself with the new chain. 

  If anyone says that their DAC is immune to anything upfront,  my answer is come and listen to my Dac with my server and without!

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

Congratulations Moussa, but I don’t know how do you replace the SMB with cables.

 

if you don’t mind, can you post more photos in order to get a clear idea of what you did?

Maybe I wasn’t clear, I just replaced the SMB cables with shorter ones.

[mozes]

4 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

How much the long of SMB cables you eventually tried?

I found the shorter the better. 6 inch is the shortest I can get.

[mozes]

2 minutes ago, beautiful music said:

And for Lush USB cable, is there a recommendation for a specific length?

 

or within 1.5m it will be ok 

I am using 1m. I don’t have experience with other lengths.

[mozes]

7 minutes ago, Cornan said:

I have found this 75ohm coaxial cable that can be fitted with BNC and uBNC and are available in 15cm lenght. Any good?

 

https://www.google.se/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://www.ebay.com/itm/BNC-male-75ohm-to-1-0-2-3-DIN-plug-right-angle-RG179-SDI-pigtail-75-15cm-500cm-/152080879542&ved=0ahUKEwjX4uOi3f_XAhWjBZoKHVsXDP4QjjgIJDAA&usg=AOvVaw06GtWYQhsBnI-npd2fR4Gc

 

Sorry can’t help you in this area, good luck with your adventure

[mozes]

6 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Thanks, I will as soon as I have tried how the trial approach works out. 

 

However, today I got a bit mind blown by the KEF LS50 wireless speakers at a local hifi shop. It really got me thinking about where I am heading! ?

I listened to these speakers and they were impressive for their size and simplicity. It makes you think, do we really need all those long chains to enjoy music?

[mozes]

41 minutes ago, Cornan said:

 

Indeed, but those are not the wireless LS50 which sounds much much better! ? I would prefer the red colour though.

It is their amps that are matched to the drivers that make the difference

[mozes]

2 hours ago, ElviaCaprice said:

Really??  It doesn't get any simpler than Server =>DAC=>Speakers.  I doubt the wireless LS50 could even mop the floor near an sCLK-EX system (can't say for sure since I've never heard the LS50).  I've never found an all in one system (same brand purchase) to be as good as separates.

Of course not at the sCLk level, but still very enjoyable if you stream Tidal as you only need the speakers.

[mozes]

58 minutes ago, lmitche said:

This looks like an expensive noise maker to me. A hard disk in a USB 3 enclosure powered by one or two low noise LPSes, 5 and 12 volts, connected to an LPS powered USB card is tough to beat.

I have a similar setup. A 2TB HDD sitting in an enclosure connected to LPS-1 powered tX-USBexp via USB3.0. The tX-USBexp provides clean power to the HDD via the USB 3.0 bus.

[mozes]

8 minutes ago, LTG2010 said:

I am also considering this and the value of having a second tx-USBexp. Why not connect the HDD directly to the motherboard via SATA, you can still power it seperately/externaly with a LPS just use a SATA Data cable. I can see the benefit of connecting the tx-USBexp via PCIE but you also have a weak link, the USB socket on the HDD enclosure, plus the expense of a second tx. Any thoughts appreciated.

I already have a SSD connected to my motherboard via SATA, but I power it from the motherboard for simplicity. I used to have the HDD that hosts my music connected to my motherboard via SATA. It also had the OS, but the current setup sounds much better. I am still not 100% sure which is the best way as now I added the SATAII filter to the OS SSD, but I am sure that the tX is doing something there. 

I am also not sure if my motherboard has a second SATA socket.

[mozes]

2 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

But I suppose you could play the same music file from both your OS SSD and your HDD and see if there's an audible difference.

That’s a good idea, will test it sometime

[mozes]

49 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Agreed, that is effectively what I do here, except with a 4tb 3.5 inch hdd and enclosure requiring 12 volts as well.

 

You may remember, I also use an Optane boot drive in an M.2 NVME slot as a boot drive which gives a nice SQ improvement with Windows.

How do you know which motherboard supports Optane drives?

[mozes]

2 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

 

If you don't wanna invest in a second tx, that's really up to you and end of the story.

 

Someone in Japan actually modified the system clock of this SATA to USB adapter and that particular move turned out to be even more effective than any other tweaks

 

http://blog.jspcaudio.net/?eid=276

 

However, almost all HDD docks and enclosures etc. have DC inputs so basically all power regulators inside them pretty much suck. That's why we might wanna get something like this instead

 

http://www.addonics.com/products/adsau3.php

https://www.conrad.com/ce/en/product/975128/GBIC----1x-USB-30-port-B-1x-SATA-socket-2-pin--------28554C127

 

 

SOtM SATA Filter II is still good to go, and then we could still supply power directly to that 15-pin SATA power connector without any power regulators whatsoever. Even the system clock could be modified by SOtM easily as it's located next to the USB connector.

So basically this accessory helps to avoid the DC converters and provide clean power directly to the HDD via the 15 pin SATA power. I am just making sure that I understood your point

[mozes]

1 hour ago, LTG2010 said:

Your pcie lane needs to be 3x4, I think your motherboard uses the older v 1.1, also you are using up both slots with your USB cards. Also your bios needs to support uefi and booting from nvme.

I've sent off a Jetway nf 697 motherboard for modifications, hence my interest in the double USB configuration, my motherboard has spare SATA ports.

Thanks for the info, pls do share your impressions when you get it back.

[mozes]

4 hours ago, seeteeyou said:

Bingo. 15-pin SATA power connectors have separate pins for 3.3V / 5V / 12V respectively.

 

Almost all 3.5" HDDs and 5.25" optical drives require both 5V and 12V to operate. It's gonna be "nasty" if we're just feeding 12V to the DC inputs of HDD docks and enclosures etc. because something (usually a single regulator) must convert 12V to 5V accordingly.

 

The difference between both voltages is 7V and most likely we just don't wanna waste our time with a significant drop like that.

 

Anyways, most of us should be content with 2.5" drives and that's why we could simply go for ADSAU31R instead

 

Great info thanks. I got the 15-Pin SATA adapter one and will try it sometime soon. I have a 2.5inch HDD so I only need the 5V. My goal is to find out when switching off the USB power on the tX-USBexp (which powers the HDD) if it makes a difference to SQ.

[mozes]

I want everyone to know that LPS-1 doesn’t have enough juice to power both tX-USBexp and a 2HDD 2.5inch. I just discovered this!

Yesterday I set Jriver to analyze  the audio of my files so needless to say the HDD was under heavy load. The LPS-1 after a couple of minutes switches off and the LED is blinking red. I thought I had an issue in my server but luckily it was a small issue. If you just play music, the LPS-1 can cope with no issues, but it runs hot but still sounds amazing. I will come up with an alternative power source to my HDD using the tips of @seeteeyou out of need and not only to improve SQ.

[mozes]

1 hour ago, Cornan said:

 

Me on the other hand wonder if this is not the gain of additional isolation and star-earth? IME dual isolations are in general very beneficial for SQ in AC & DC and also USB & Ethernet (the latter obviously affected by AC & DC as well). 

If you think about the clocking it is almost like a star-earth arrangement which is also very beneficial to SQ when all the AC/DC paths is firmly isolated IME. 

If this is presumably true, I would add that it is not any isolation. Adding Iso Regen to my chain brings down the SQ. Adding a second tX-USBultra improves SQ and both are powered by LPS-1.

Important: this is only valid with my sCLK-EX server. With Nimitra, the Iso Regen had a magical impact on SQ.

[mozes]

9 minutes ago, Johnseye said:

 

Not exactly equivalent, but close.  You need an output and an input so two txUSBexp cards can not be used.  That card's input is the PCI slot.

 

Roy is using the txUSBhubIN as an input for his music files.  This may be what @Alan_J is doing as well, I'm still unclear.  Roy was going out the txUSBexp and then into a txUSBultra.

It can also work with two tX-USBexp cards like my setup. Music goes through one tX-USBexp and goes out to my DAC via a second tX-USBexp

[mozes]

35 minutes ago, rickca said:

OK but you don't have that yellow wire chaining the two tX-USBexp cards, right?  Are you using an external USB drive attached to one of the tX-USBexp cards for your music files?  How are you powering sCLK-EX and the 2 x tX-USBexp?

 

And on top of this, you have 2 x tX-USBultra?

Each card has its own PSU. One HDD connected to one