A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

[jean-michel6]

14 hours ago, auricgoldfinger said:

 

The eABS-200 makes a noticeable improvement inside the tx-USBultra.  SOtM can do it for you when you place the order.  It is also easy to do yourself if you want to buy an entire sheet.  I posted a photo somewhere in this thread of where the strips should be placed.

 

Could you post again the pictures as I don’t remember seing them. 

Thank’s

[jean-michel6]

On 13/04/2018 at 1:29 AM, LTG2010 said:

My Linear ATX power supply by sean Jacobs arrived today. It needs a few weeks for component burn in but it's already sounding great, large soundstage, great dynamics, silent background, very detailed, neutral, good bass, very pleased, took just under 3 months mainly due to transformer manufacture.

It's a twin transformer design with 9 rails, 3.3v, 5v, 2x12V for the motherboard/CPU, 2x5v for ssd and hdd and 3x9v for SOTM trio.

It comes with a single umbilical connection at power supply and gland that feeds into the server. The wires are colour coded, but bare ended as Sean has an exclusivity agreement with Innuos. Heres my ScLK-ex server.

ATX wiring information is readily available here's a link with some good detail - this is how I did it.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ATX

I used ATX extension cables by Silverstone, 24 pin and 4 pin for the seperate CPU rail, simply cut off the male connectors to expose the wire and group the ground, 3.3v, 5v & 12V wires together and solder these to your seperate power supply feeds. The ground wires are all common on the motherboard so these can be all connected or daisy chained.

Modern motherboards don't need negative -12v voltages (pin 14), you can ignore these. A linear power supply does not have a 3.3V sensing voltage (pin 13) you can snip that off. You can't turn off your linear power supply from the pc so no need for the power on feed (pin 16). Pin 9 (purple) is the stanby voltage and is 5v, so connect this with your 5v feed (red wires).

Pin 8 (usually grey) is the power ok signal. The atx power supply sends a 5v signal to the motherboard once its all powered up and stable. We don't have this on a linear power supply so we need to 'fool' the motherboard into thinking its receiving a power ok signal, otherwise it won't boot. So we also connect this to the 5v feed. The power ok signal should activate between 100ms - 500ms after the supply is switched on, some motherboards might not boot if this criteria is not met. I had no problems with the supermicro X10, if your's does not boot you can easily get around this with a cheap delay relay from ebay, there are other methods also.

I originally made up some ATX connectors with silver plated copper cables and for powering the hard discs, these sounded awfull, very bright and distorted, so I switched to the Silverstone leads that appear to be tinned plated copper. For the SSD and hard disc I used Neotech OFC copper, amazing how a small piece of cable can clean up the sound. If making up your own SATA power connector, the middle pin is +5v and a pin either side of that is ground. Similarly I used Neotech copper for SOTM boards directly soldered to the board behind the external connectors, thus avoiding external connections and jack plugs.

Alec

 

 

Thank you for this very interesting feedback. 

I have a dual pc set up similar to yours . I am using also the same Supermicro mother board as you. 

On the player side I have also a sCLK ex board for pc lan and system clock and pcie SOTM usb as well as the txUSB board. 

 

I have a separate 4x5volts psu for ssd os and music ssd. 

Sotm pcie card and tx usb as well as sCLK board are powered by two sotm sps500. 

I have also a dual rail Sean Jacobs 12v psu for the mother board and I am powering the mother board with the 4pin atx plug only. 

 

I have already extremely good music from this system. 

 

However you went even further than me and I am extremely interested to know if you did compare powering your server with the 4pin atx only and 4 pin +24 pin atx. 

 

If not I would be extremely interested if you could do it to have an idea of the progress brought by using both atx 4and 24 to power the Supermicro board.

 

Could you give the 24 pin assignment that you used for the atx connector. 

According to your feedback , for the super micro board it was quite easy to set up an atx linear psu which is not the case for other mb. 

[jean-michel6]

5 hours ago, LTG2010 said:

 As per my previous reply to you I could not use the 12V - 4 pin alone due to the low Ampage but what I could do is test the 24 pin connection alone without the 4 pin, therefore omitting the 12V 'CPU rail'. I could hear a reduction in quality, less seperation and a slightly more grainier sound, not huge but noticeable.

Thank’s for your detailed answer and take the time to test only the 24pin ATX ps.

On a previous and different mb set up I was powering separately the cpu and the 24pin atx connector (pico psu) and it did provide a good sound quality improvement over only using the 24atx power connector.

On my set up the mother board is not powering any accessory except the mother board itself (as your set up I think).

Before using the Sean Jacobs psu I was using the ifi 12v 1.8A smps with no problem. 

 

I agree with you that to have a dedicated psu for each part of our set up is always a move for better sound. 

For the sotm trio I have 

one sps 500 for the pcie USB ex

one sps 500 for both the sCLKex and that txUSBin

I have had also very good results with uptone lps 1.1 which gave better results on sotm trio than the sps 500 .

I plan to try the new lps 1.2 which seems to be recognized as clearly superior to the lps1.1. 

And as you suggest I will try with 3 separate psu for each piece of the set up. 

 

For the mother board I am sure it is also a good move to use the 24pin atx as you did but it is another layer of complexity on a system already quite evolved. I may consider this for future trial. 

 

By by the way going to a dual pc set up ( roon core , roon bridge  Fedora ) was a very big gap in music improvement. 

I have tried in my system sms200ultra with one pc as server and dual pc was clearly superior. 

Those Supermicro board are truly excellent for audio. 

 

  

[jean-michel6]

4 hours ago, nvitorino said:

 

Hi everyone,

 

I can provide a bit of feedback on this based on our experience with the Supermicro X10SBA-L. On this board there is a significant difference in sound quality when powering both the ATX and the 12V Input compared to 12V alone. If you connect the ATX supply, the board will not use it's own switching regulators to convert to 5V and 3.3V from 12V. The interesting part is that it still uses the 12V rail on both the ATX and the 12V input separately if the 12V input is available. We've tested 3 configurations:

 

1. ATX only (using a Pico-PSU with a clean 12V input)

2. 12V only

3. ATX + 12V

 

1. and 2. sound similar in our tests. 3 sounds significantly better. At first, we were expecting 2. to be the best, as it removed the Pico-PSU from the equation. But seems the board itself will do the same job as the Pico and doesn't seem to do it any better than that.

We've fthen further tested with separate rails using the ATX only and compared to using separate rails for ATX + 12V input. The result is the same, adding both ATX and 12V results is clearly superior sound with this board. If you don't want / can't get separate rails for ATX and 12V, getting at least another 12V supply and connecting a Pico-PSU will still yield benefits compared to feeding the 12V alone. If you are using a separate power supply for the SSD, 1.5A on ATX and 1.5A on 12V is enough for this board.

 

Nuno
 

Thank you for this very I teresting comment . Me too in my dual pc set up  I have used only the 12v 4pin connector as I felt it will provide the best sound quality since it removed the noisy pico psu from the system.  

 

Apparently i was wrong I will definitely try the dual 12vas I have spare picopsu available. 

 

Does going to a separate 3 linear psu to power the 24 pin atx provide a sizable progress over using the pico psu ?

[jean-michel6]

Is there a problem with this thread ? Since I see no activity since last Friday ?

[jean-michel6]

14 hours ago, lmitche said:

Hi all,

 

In the true spirit of this thread, I'd like to introduce you to JSSG 360.  Thinking about John Swensons JSSG cable tweak, a layer of tinned copper shielding with the ends connected with a drain wire, it occurred to me that instead of the drain wire, a layer of insulation followed by another layer of tinned copper would likely to be better. With the two layers of tinned copper attached at the end points, the SQ impact is much greater then the current, and brilliant, JSSG tweak. This tweak works on DC cabling, network cabling and USB cables.

 

Having recently treated one of Rajiv's Lush cables with JSSG 360, he can vouch for the SQ impact.

 

I am quite excited to have found the Gotham Audio USA Gac4/1 ultra pro cable which has JSSG 360 built-in. Once again, just connect the inner and outer shielding at the endpoints and you have JSSG 360 SQ.

 

Unfortunately, I can't explain why JSSG 360 sounds so good. But I've been treating my cables this way since last fall and it seems to work without fail on any cable.

 

Enjoy JSSG 360.  You will be amazed at the new life you will get out of your existing cabling.

 

Larry

Hi Thank's for the info on this Gotham cable which seems quite nicely built . It seems it can use and can replace the canary 4s6 .

Were are you using the gotham cable in your system ? Have you found it to be better than the canare ( with jssg360 ) ?

 

Which kind of mesh screen are you using to build your jssg360 cables ?

 

The gotham use the excellent reussen screen which insure 100% coverage .

[jean-michel6]

Thank's a lot to @lmitche to bring the JSSG 360 , this is really a wonderful and fairly simple and easy to implement mod for our systems

 

Even though i already have JSSG for all my dc cables in my system ( 7 cables ... yes too many small boxes ...) , i decided to try this JSSG 360 mod on some cable . I did try it on two DC cable , one feeding a SOTM SPDIF converter and the other feeding a SOTM txUSB card as well as an sCLKex clock board . I did also modify the two supra 8 ethernet cable used in my dual pc to become JSSG 360 .

 

I am extremely pleased with the result as mentioned earlier by others .I did got a darker and more quiet background , a quite better imaging ( larger , deeper and more precise ) and also better bass . 

With recordings with natural echo the notes seem to last longer .

A very nice improvement with no drawback , except for the first minutes of listening ; your brain need to get used to have less "electrical" noise that usually is taken for sharper top end which is of course wrong .

 

Since there were many questions on what to use to insure the isolation between the two layers of mesh screens here is what i have done ( see pictures ) . It make this very easy and fast ( 20 minutes for one cable ) . I am using plumber teflon tape ( .2mm thick ) and i wrap it around the first layer of mesh screen , i do a second layer wrapping in the opposite direction to cross the two layers . Teflon is very easy to work with  .

 

 

This is what i did for the sura 8 and also for the DC cables .

 

I did purchase the Gotham star cross cable and will report results later compared to canare  4S6  JSSG 360 . For @lmitche Gotham are clearly superior .

 

I also purchase some Gotham Ac several layer insulation cable to test it .

Does anyone as experience with trying JSSG 360 on AC cable ?

 

Shielding of AC cable is i think quite tricky because the signal is much stronger than in our other cable ( DC ,ethernet , USB ,...) and therefore the electromagnetic wave of the AC signal can i think interact easily with a screening shield .

Some time ago i did one experiment on a Nordost AC cable  . I have a Nordost Frey2 AC cable in my system ( by the way it is a kind of star quad design with more than 4 conductor ) . I did wrap around it two layers of a mu metal screen ...A painful job  and a very poor results . The Nordost Frey 2 AC cable is a very nice cable but adding the mu metal just changed a lot the way the cable deliver current to my equipment . 

 

Therefore i am very interested in your experiment with JSSG 360 AC cable if any ...

 

 

 

 

 

[jean-michel6]

@lmitche  Before using the Gotham 11301 star quad cable  , i did use the multimeter to understand how the different shield on this quite complex cable are working .

The result are quite puzzling and i will appreciate if you can shed some light on my observation .

 

Shield 1 and 2 are two layers of tiny 1/10 mm coper wire wounded in opposite direction insuring 100% coverage - those 2 layers are in contact with no insulation in between .

Shield 3 is a non woven polyester sheet with aluminium in it - It is non conductive

Each of the individual wire ( 4 total ) has a shield 4 non woven polyester sheet with aluminium in it and then a shield 5  of one layer of 1/10 mm copper wire insuring 100% coverage .

 

To the ohmmeter  no contact between shield 1-2 and shield 5 for pink and red wire .

However for the white wire and the translucid wire i got a 10 and 50 ohm measurement 

 

I even cut a piece of wire to check those results again because i fell the cable may be defective and i got exactly the same results .

 

Very strange results and i do not know if you got similar results .

[jean-michel6]

1 hour ago, austinpop said:

 

Thanks, mate! Based on your details, and some advice from @mozes, I am putting in an Amazon order for:

• both the 1/4" and 3/8" sizes of this one: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B01MEG9V2R
• both 3/8" and 1/2" of this for the outer sleeve: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B071WF5NTN
• this to seal the ends where the inner and outer braids fuse: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HWRO744
• and, good old electrical insulation tape in lieu of heat shrink: https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B000BQWOKW

This should allow me to build JSSG 360 without a heat gun. Once the goodies arrive, I will see how I get on and keep y'all posted.

Rajiv 

You may want to try this https://www.amazon.com/Everflow-812-Thread-Plumbers-White/dp/B06XCWQ4D2/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&qid=1529299525&sr=8-4&keywords=teflon+plumbers+tape&dpID=41VecOG9clL&preST=_SY300_QL70_&dpSrc=srch

it is very easy to work with it just need to be .2 mm thick. 

The sticky electric tape will make your cable somewhat stiffer. 

I am using the Teflon tape , no tools needed and it work real welll .

[jean-michel6]

Following recommendation from @lmitche i did ordered the gotham cable and i did built one DC cable  used it between my uptown LPS1.2 and  the SOTM USB hd .

 

I was floored by the result i got even though before i was using a canare 4S6with JSSG 360 . The gotham is significantly better and brings more shade of tonal colors than the canare even though the canare was already significantly better than the ordinary cable.

 

Quite amazed at how one simple DC cable  changes the music in my system .

[jean-michel6]

On 7/4/2018 at 3:05 AM, cat6man said:

I've visited this thread on and off over its life and I'm back for another visit.

 

I have a dx-usb HD with sCLK-2224 (formerly superclock upgrade) which I used for a few years, then put on the shelf while I experimented with microRendu and then ultraRendu, with LPS1 and LPS1.2 power supplies.

I recently went back to using the dx-usb HD to see how my totalDAC sounded with aes/ebu, since it had been a while since I used that mode (previously I used dx-usbHD with the sotm battery supply).

 

My current setup is ultraRendu (w/ LPS1.2 power) feeding usb into dx-usbHD (w/LPS1 power), aes/ebu into totaldac.

The sound is very very good and I plan to compare it to the ultraRendu feeding the dac via usb.

I also want to try swapping the LPS1 and LPS1.2, putting the LPS1.2 on the dx-usbHD feeding the DAC.

 

I see now, and wasn't paying sufficient attention earlier, that the newer EX clock fits in the dx-usbHD and is a good upgrade even from the sCLK-2224.  How many folks out there have a sotm unit withe the EX clock?  Anyone using the dx-usbHD with sCLK-13224EX clock?

Anyone doing so with aes/ebu output?  I'd appreciate any feedback or suggestions.  I see that Romaz had a unit upgraded and was using, I believe, spdif output.  Anyone else with experience here?

 

I've emailed sotm asking about an upgrade for my dx-usbHD unit, but have yet to get a response.

I do see that the EX clock is an option that can be chosen at checkout if buying a new dx-usbHD unit and the sCLK-13224EX clock costs $250 more than the sCLK-2224 (which I currently have).

 

Cheers

I do had a dx-USB HD with sCLK 2224 and I did upgraded it to sCLKex.  

It is now powered by an lps 1.2

My dealer here in france bought back from me at half cost the sCLk224 board and i did purchase the sCLKex. 

I am using it to input into AES-EBU in an AMR dp 777 se dac. 

I did got some SQ improvement going from sCLK 2224 to sCLKex but it is not very big. 

In my opinion it is a worthwhile investment if you plan to use the two additional clock output of the sCLKex and adding later a 10mhz ref clock which I have not done yet. 

One other route you may try. 

I did try in my system the new matrix USB-Spdif converter.  

It is better than the sotm with sCLKex board and cost is small .... cheaper than sCLK ex 

[jean-michel6]

DC cables. 

Following reading  from @lmitche and @mozes and others. 

 

I have tried several dc cable recipes. I did try these cable between uptone lps 1.2 and my sotm gears ( dx-USB hd and tx USB ultra ). 

 

I have to say that I am quite amazed by the improvement brought by better DC cables I never thought that those cable can make such a big sq bump. 

 

I did try :

- standard DC cable delivered with uptone lps 

- canare 4S6 star quad and JSSG360 

- gotham pro4 star quad and all shield connected in a JSSG 360 way. 

- Neotech multi strand AWG 14 OCC copper and JSSG 360 

elecaudio dc jack from audiophonics. 

 

The results are as follows in term of better SQ 

 

standard << canare << Gotham <~ Neotech 

 

The difference between each of these cable is not subtle and you can easily hear the differences even if you switch one cable only. 

 

Several conclusions from from my side. 

 

- The JSSG 360 is absolutely great and is a must 

-  Size does matter : Gotham and canare in starquad configuration will represent about 1 mm2 of copper on each leg and neotech 2 mm2 per leg. 

- Metallurgy may matter Neotech is occ where canare and Gotham are only ofc. 

 

The ideal cable may be an occ cable in a star quad arrangement but I have not found it. 

 

The difference between the Gotham and neotech was very Interesting as they are both very good. 

Sound signature of both cable was quite close but I was better drawn in the music with the neotech than the Gotham. A detailed analysis of what I was hearing did show that the neotech was better at reproducing the very tiny electrical signals which give cues to the recording venues and also very subtle harmonics of voices or instruments. 

It was very noticeable on some songs of Patricia Barber recorded in dining club and before she even start to sing you can hear the atmosphere of the place with the feeling to be there. 

[jean-michel6]

2 hours ago, look&listen said:

Sorry, but not clear from text which is best SQ & which less-so ?

From right to left  SQ is better ...Hopefully  ?  because Neotech OCC is probably 100 more time expensive than the standard cable ...

[jean-michel6]

23 minutes ago, Superdad said:

 

I have several times relented and made custom adaptations of our Oyaide/Belden (4x18awg) star-quad with that Hirose plug on the end--for JS-2 buyers using it to power their $10K Merging Technologies NADAC.

Those Hirose plugs--with their tiny, very close together pins, and their narrow shell with no back cleanace--are a major pain to work with.  I hate them!  And be very careful about polarity.  The pins have numbers, but which number is for which pin?  And you have to figure things out in relation to the notches on the shell.  

Have fun! ?

Yes those hirose connector are really a pain to work with . I have made some cable for the SPS 500 but you are limited in cable diameter as those connectors are very tiny ....

 

I have now gone for the LPS 1.2 because it is significantly better than the SPS 500 and you can make nice DC cable to fit it  !

[jean-michel6]

3 hours ago, Johnseye said:

 

 

 

Yes, I have an LPS 1.2 and 1.  The specs are a little different so can support different deivces, and I was considering the SOtM master clock at the time which would have afforded a discount.

 

Since you three have some experience with the Hirose connector, do you think it will work with the Gotham Star Quad ?  My goal will be to replace all DC cables with it.  Also, can you crimp it with a coax crimper or does it need something special?

 

 

Thanks.  I have a similar silver cable from SOtM.  Not as good as that one though, the gauge is smaller.  I may just JSSG 360 that cable if the Hirose is too difficult to work with.

I have made one of this cable with an Hirose sotm connector and canare 4S6 JSSG360 .  I think it should be feasible with the gotham as the conductors have about the same section as the one in the canare .

However it is a pain ... to do it . 

I have use the hirose connector with pin to be soldered . You must also use heat shrink tubing to protect the connections as they are very close to each other .

[jean-michel6]

3 hours ago, austinpop said:

 

Me too. I went ahead and JSSG 360'd this for a further boost in SQ.

 

Maybe the holy grail is a 7N UPOCC silver star quad with JSSG 360?

 

I agree !

 

Somebody to do it ?

 

[jean-michel6]

22 hours ago, cat6man said:

 

Merci Jean-Michel,

 

The matrix x-spdif 2 looks like an interesting option for me to try, as you say that it outperformed the dx-usbHD with the sCLKex clock and is cheaper.  I assume you were comparing the aes/ebu outputs of the two and both were powered by the lps1.2 (also what I use for  the dx-usbHD).  You noted that the change from the sCLK 2224 to sCLKex was small.  How would you describe the improvement going from sCLKex to matrix x-spdif2?

Yes I was comparing both unit on their aes/ebu output and both were powered by lps 1 . I did receive my lps 1.2after I made this comparison.  

 

The matrix was was more transparent than the sotm and medium high and top end was smoother .Overall it was nicer and sounding more analogic. Soundstage was also improved. 

 

For the time being I still run with the sotm because I am using the 2 extra clock of the clockboard and I want also to test the external 10mhz ref clock. 

But in the near future I intend to move to the matrix. 

[jean-michel6]

USB Cable Phasure Lush

 

I have read a lot of good things on this forum and others on the Lush USB cable .

I was lucky to find a used one for sale in holland and it arrived home early this week .

 

I was really shocked by how good is this cable  .  My current cable is no slouch however it is the Jcat Reference , which gave me good service for the past two years .

 

The Lush is so much more analogic and like real life , bass is much better . With the Lush you just want to listen on and on ...

It did not give more details than with the Jcat however it does seems to be more transparent ; probably because to my brain the Lush looks much closer to real music .

 

I did observe also that foot tapping was very active with the lush ?

My next step of course is to make it JSSG360 .

 

A truly great USB cable for music lovers !

 

 

[jean-michel6]

13 hours ago, cat6man said:

 

My matrix arrived today (ordered last friday) and I'll be testing/comparing tomorrow.

It is 'warming up' on a generic 9v supply overnight, then I'll switch it in and out for the sotm using my lps1.2.

I have a lps1.0 on my ultraRendu and may try swapping the two power supplies, but I assume the better supply should

be closest to the DAC.

 

Thanks for the recommendation!

Let me know the outcome ?

 

[jean-michel6]

12 hours ago, Blake said:

 

Alan, did you end up trying the JSSG360 methods on your Sablon Audio USB and Ethernet cables?  I have them both on demo now from Sablon and they are so damn good!  No way I am sending them back to Sablon.  Curious though if this process would further improve them (although I can't imagine it because they seem like absolute perfection "as is").

Have you compared the sablon to the Lush ?

[jean-michel6]

5 hours ago, Blake said:

 

Hey Jean-Michel,  I have not.  I've had probably a dozen different usb cables over the years, but I've never tried the Lush.  The Sablon is significantly better than any other usb cable I've owned (Curious, TotalDac D1, Lightspeed 10G, Uptone USPCB, Mapleshade, Nordost Blue Heaven, iFi, Cardas, etc.). 

 

My Ghent Gotham DC cable is almost here.  Looking forward to comparing to my other Ghent DC cable (DC04- Canare 4S6). 

Which sablon usb cable do you have ?

The lush for me is a small miracle because it is so analogic and has removed all digital nasties. 

I was using jcat ref and also Totaldac d1. 

The lush is vastly superior to both of these  this is why I was curious of the comparison between the lush and the sablon. 

 

I am pretty sure the Gotham will be clearly the best one !

[jean-michel6]

8 hours ago, Blake said:

 

I have the powered Reserva.  I'm not sure if the powered Elite version will work with my Berkeley USB Converter.  i plan on asking Sablon before finalizing my purchase.

 

With respect to Sablon vs Lush comparisons, I am pretty sure I recall seeing a few comparisons by some users on another audio forum or even possibly CA??  Will update if I can remember where I saw them... 

Thank's

[jean-michel6]

2 hours ago, BigAlMc said:

 

Might have been the following on WBF:

 

http://www.whatsbestforum.com/showthread.php?19247-Sablon-Audio-Reserva-experience-Affordable-S-O-T-A/page8

 

Thank's  .

 

I recently have the lush in my system and i like it a lot with it's organic and very natural sound . I agree it could a tad more lively .

Apparently the sablon combine the strength of both the curious and the lush .

[jean-michel6]

4 hours ago, mozes said:

The JSSG 360 really takes the Lush to another level. Mainly more holographic imaging and deeper bass. 

Hi Moussa 

 

i have already jssg360 my lush !

[jean-michel6]

Lush jssg 360 . I have now put some more hours listening to this cable. 

It is really a small miracle . It is so musical and organic sounding . Some digital harshness that I still had with my previous usb cable is completely gone .

Kudos to the designer !