A novel way to massively improve the SQ of computer audio streaming

seeteeyou · August 25, 2018

10 minutes ago, rickca said:

I've been looking at them. They don't have the eMMC of the NUC7 model that @lmitche is playing with. The question is whether eMMC is a big advantage over an M.2 PCIe x4 slot.

It depends on how far we'd like to go in terms of following in @romaz's footsteps. Running the OS entirely from RAM should be the first priority due to the latency. (i.e. nanoseconds for RAM versus microseconds for Optane etc.)

The second one is optimizing the OS by the removal of unnecessary components.

Finally there's noise coming from storage devices. HDDs and SSDs are noisiest, while eMMC should be not as bad. And then there's even an option to "surpass" the advantage of eMMC by eliminating that altogether. Either remove / turn off the USB drive after the OS is loaded, or go for network boot like iSCSI / PXE.

The latest NUC models seemed to have their Wi-Fi cards soldered down and even disconnecting the antenna cables + disabling them in BIOS might not be good enough. And then some of us might still wanna add our own PCIe cards via Thunderbolt 3 or maybe M.2 to PCIe adapters.

When all confounding factors are eliminated, it's still hard to tell which NUC model is giving us the best SQ unless we're actually comparing all of them. In that case, maybe adding our own PCIe cards (e.g. USB / Ethernet) could give us an edge?

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/2473-intel-nuc-alikes-which-accept-jcat-femto-ethernet-card/

seeteeyou · August 25, 2018

On 6/19/2018 at 1:14 AM, austinpop said:

It turns out the Innuos Zenith SE is an "open" system, in that you can access the BIOS, or even load a different OS if you want.

Since @romaz already sold his ZENith SE, let's see if we're able to find another "adventurous" owner of SE. What if a completely diskless SE (running AudioLinux entirely from RAM while both SSD and optical drive are disconnected) were actually able to beat a "properly" powered Intel NUC 7 Essential NUC7CJYSAL Mini PC? Of course both of them should act as endpoints for the sake of comparisons, and preferably connected to a reclocked switch.

If SE were still not coming out on top, then at least we could tell that "magic sauce" should be baked right into the design of an Intel NUC and for whatever reasons it's even more "magical" when compared to what X10SBA-L could offer.

seeteeyou · August 25, 2018

On 8/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, romaz said:

Other features include an embedded low power Celeron CPU with an SoC architecture and up to 8GB of RAM capacity. Unfortunately, there was no way to power the CPU independently as this board takes a single 12-19V DC feed, however, given the very small 4" x 4" size of this UCFF (Ultra Compact Form Factor) board, I figured it should have even lower impedance than a larger mini-ITX board and was worth $100 to test it.

That part really got me thinking. If smaller were indeed better due to the impedance is lower, what if we're going for something as small as an Intel Compute Stick or Asus VivoStick?

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-Compute-Stick-BOXSTK1A32SC-BLKSTK1A32SC/dp/B01AZC4I64

https://www.amazon.com/ASUS-VivoStick-TS10-B017D-Intel-Z8350/dp/B01EZGYV9A

Of course Ethernet could only be added via USB while we're getting merely 2GB of RAM. However, something else is coming with built-in Ethernet in addition to 6GB of RAM and 32GB eMMC

https://solutionsdirectory.intel.com/solutions-directory/Fanless_Mini_Computer_Mini_PC_Stick_6GB_32GB_MeLE_PCHD26_GML3_Quad_Core_Intel

http://melestar.manufacturer.globalsources.com/si/6008851132319/pdtl/Mini-PC/1162076645/Fanless-Intel-Mini-PC.htm

Hopefully some retailers could carry that soon because the minimum order seemed to be 300 pieces as shown above

https://liliputing.com/2018/04/mele-pc-stick-with-gemini-lake-processor-coming-this-summer.html

https://www.cnx-software.com/2018/04/12/mele-pcg02-gml-gemini-lake-fanless-tv-stick-coming-in-june-for-180-and-up/

seeteeyou · August 27, 2018

Great news for those of us who might wanna give Intel NUC a try? Most likely SOtM tX-USBhubIN could be added even though we don't even have any M.2 / PCIe slots for installing tX-USBexp

https://www.sotm-audio.com/sotmwp/english/portfolio-item/tx-usbhub/

Quote

Also tX-USBhub has more benefits than the tX-USBexp since the connection to mainboard is made by USB connector only.

However, @romaz actually talked to Lee and the latest version of tX-USBexp turned out to be superior

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=153&tab=comments#comment-724987

I just checked the specs and found the page where those Single-Port Internal USB 2.0 Headers (i.e. upper-right corner of the motherboard as shown below, right above the yellow USB port) were mentioned

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/nuc-kits/NUC7xJY_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=44

And then I also found this on Intel's site

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/support/articles/000006933/mini-pcs.html

However, I looked at some pictures of tX-USBhubIN and no connectors for Intel NUC's 1.25mm pitch was included

In that case, maybe we could simply pay them to make a connector (or more like two connectors for one cable since those headers are separated?) for an Intel NUC.

seeteeyou · August 28, 2018

Looks like everyone could benefit from eMMC?

16GB eMMC Module Rock64 and Odroid-C0/C1/C1+/C2 …
https://www.amazon.com/16GB-eMMC-Module-Rock64-Odroid-C0/dp/B07C9HKKFN

https://www.pine64.org/?product=16gb-emmc

32GB EMMC Module
https://www.pine64.org/?product=32gb-emmc

64GB EMMC Module
https://www.pine64.org/?product=64gb-emmc

ODROID USB3.0 eMMC Module Writer
https://www.amazon.com/ODROID-USB3-0-eMMC-Module-Writer/dp/B07BHQ615Q

https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G152105300286

eMMC Adapter
https://www.amazon.com/ODROID-eMMC-Adapter/dp/B01LHJ2O38

https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G135415955758

eMMC Module Orange
https://www.hardkernel.com/main/products/prdt_info.php?g_code=G150825660587

https://www.amazon.com/8GB-ODROID-eMMC-Module-Android/dp/B0791411FH

https://www.amazon.com/16GB-ODROID-eMMC-Module-Android/dp/B0762XFZ5X

https://www.amazon.com/32GB-ODROID-eMMC-Module-Android/dp/B079ZQRVZK

https://www.amazon.com/64GB-ODROID-eMMC-Module-Android/dp/B079T22228

https://www.amazon.com/8GB-eMMC-Module-ODROID-XU4-Android/dp/B073WL8TW3

https://www.amazon.com/32GB-eMMC-Module-ODROID-XU4-Android/dp/B073WMFTDR

https://www.amazon.com/64GB-eMMC-Module-ODROID-XU4-Android/dp/B073WLXNWB

Yet another interesting choice with eMMC and it's starting at $89

LattePanda 2G/32GB - a Win10 Development Board (without Win10 product key)
https://www.amazon.com/LattePanda-2G-32GB-Development-without/dp/B01KJMDD9S

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1498.html

LattePanda 4G/64GB - a Win10 Development Board (without Win10 product key)
https://www.amazon.com/LattePanda-4G-64GB-Development-without/dp/B01ID4HYE4

https://www.dfrobot.com/product-1404.html

MakerFocus Aluminum Alloy CNC Case for Lattepanda Development Board
https://www.amazon.com/MakerFocus-Aluminum-Alloy-Lattepanda-Development/dp/B06XRV32L2

Geekworm CNC Aluminum Alloy Case for Lattepanda 2G/4G Board - Black
http://www.dx.com/p/geekworm-cnc-aluminum-alloy-case-for-lattepanda-2g-4g-board-black-456374

seeteeyou · August 29, 2018

Here's what Roy mentioned before regarding dormant drives

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=359&tab=comments#comment-860030

On 8/8/2018 at 7:29 PM, romaz said:

While you could argue that I could have used an SSD drive in this situation and that the SSD would sit idle since the OS would be running completely from memory, my contention is that even a dormant SSD still generates noise. In the end, the proof is in the listening.

The key in my post above was the word "everyone" in a sense that not everyone would get one of those (used) SLC SSDs with much lower noise than the others, and then not everyone would dive into Linux while running that entirely from RAM. Finally not everyone would go through the steps to work on FiraDisk / GRUB4DOS / iSCSI / PXE etc. in order to run the VHD image of Windows completely from RAM.

For an Intel NUC with Celeron / Pentium it's even more work to keep the VHD image (of 64-bit Windows since WoW64 needs more space) much less than 16GB with DISM / Dism++ / MSMG Toolkit / NTLite / WinReducer EX-100 / Win Toolkit etc. We'll see if Windows 10 Lean were getting any easier.

seeteeyou · August 29, 2018

1 hour ago, rickca said:

I just find limiting the platform to NUCs with eMMC is too big a constraint.

That's the thing about NUCs for now, we just dunno if there were any kinda "magic sauce" that might be baked right into its design. The idle storage device itself might (or might not) make a significant difference but fortunately it shouldn't be that challenging to test that out since standalone eMMC drives could be purchased from Hardkernel.

If impedance were actually a big deal because of a (much) smaller motherboard, let's do a comparison together

http://www.supermicro.com/products/motherboard/celeron/x10/x10sba-l.cfm

Quote

170 × 170 = 28900 mm²

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/nuc-kits/NUC7xJY_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=52

Quote

101.6 × 101.6 = 10322.56 mm²

http://download.udoo.org/files/UDOO_X86/Doc/UDOO_X86_MANUAL.pdf#page=15

Quote

120 × 85 = 10200 mm²

https://www.lattepanda.com/blog-2446.html

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110 × 78 = 8580 mm²

https://www.lattepanda.com/products/1.html

Quote

88 × 70 = 6160 mm²

https://www.zotac.com/jm/product/mini_pcs/pi225#spec

Quote

95.4 × 63 = 6010.2 mm²

http://www.up-board.org/ai-edge/up-core-plus/

Quote

56.5 × 90 = 5085 mm²

http://www.up-board.org/upcore/specifications-upcore/

Quote

56.5 × 66 = 3729 mm²

https://wiki.solid-run.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=ibx:microsom:docs:sr-usom-ibx-assy-rev1.0.pdf

Quote

52.8 × 40 = 2112 mm²

https://wiki.solid-run.com/lib/exe/fetch.php?media=ibx:carrierboard:docs:sr-ibx-solidpc-datasheet.pdf#page=3

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100 × 80 = 8000 mm²

SolidPC Q4 is the tiniest but it's just the system on module (SOM) part, its official carrier board turned out to be much larger while it's gonna cost a fortunate to design our own board.

Next in line is UP Core from Aaeon (a member of the Asus group) as shown below, I could find one clock on the left plus two more on the right

https://www.mouser.co.uk/images/microsites/upcore-3qtr1bd1.png

SOtM tX-USBhubIN could be added via USB 2.0 pin header, Ethernet is also available on this carrier board

https://up-shop.org/up-core/202-up-core-carrier-board-high-speed.html

Alternatively, 4 Gigabit LAN ports could be added with this $40 USB adapter that's powered externally via its 5V/2A DC input

https://www.amazon.com/IO-Crest-SY-HUB24047-Gigabit-Network/dp/B01N16C75R

The board itself costs just under $130 if 2GB of RAM were OK for a SUPER slim OS, replacing the clocks with better ones and we should be good to go

https://www.mouser.com/search/refine.aspx?Ntk=P_MarCom&Ntt=159430045

As usual it's even better to figure out what voltage regulators could be replaced with LT3045, though we might end up destroying the board or something.

seeteeyou · August 29, 2018

17 minutes ago, rickca said:

They certainly don't have the sophisticated power design or BIOS options of bigger motherboards.

The BIOS part should be nothing to write home about since the latest release seemed to be kinda messy. However, I really dunno much about the sophisticated power design of bigger motherboards since everything is coming with switching regulators by default. Other than spending an arm and a leg on a custom-made motherboard, the best we could do might be finding something that's similar to Supermicro X10SBA-L etc.

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=313&tab=comments#comment-813712

On 4/26/2018 at 4:25 PM, nvitorino said:

Hi everyone,

I can provide a bit of feedback on this based on our experience with the Supermicro X10SBA-L. On this board there is a significant difference in sound quality when powering both the ATX and the 12V Input compared to 12V alone. If you connect the ATX supply, the board will not use it's own switching regulators to convert to 5V and 3.3V from 12V. The interesting part is that it still uses the 12V rail on both the ATX and the 12V input separately if the 12V input is available. We've tested 3 configurations:

1. ATX only (using a Pico-PSU with a clean 12V input)

2. 12V only

3. ATX + 12V

1. and 2. sound similar in our tests. 3 sounds significantly better. At first, we were expecting 2. to be the best, as it removed the Pico-PSU from the equation. But seems the board itself will do the same job as the Pico and doesn't seem to do it any better than that.

We've fthen further tested with separate rails using the ATX only and compared to using separate rails for ATX + 12V input. The result is the same, adding both ATX and 12V results is clearly superior sound with this board. If you don't want / can't get separate rails for ATX and 12V, getting at least another 12V supply and connecting a Pico-PSU will still yield benefits compared to feeding the 12V alone. If you are using a separate power supply for the SSD, 1.5A on ATX and 1.5A on 12V is enough for this board.

Nuno

And then it's also a mystery when it comes to the noise patterns, though measuring lots of motherboards ourselves could cost even more than designing a custom-made one

http://hifipig.com/innuos-zenith-mk2/

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“We had to go through a very detailed oscilloscope for measurements. We have literally tested dozens of system boards and the noise patterns you get vary wildly between them. Some are absolutely dreadful and should never be used for audio.

Once EtherREGEN is released, maybe more of us would become interested in the "Server + Endpoint" approach since a noisy server ain't such a big deal thanks to the network switch. If that were the case, we could possibly consider rebooting our project for crowd-funded motherboards (with eMMC?) and aim for something very simple with 1 PCIe slot for USB card + another slot for Ethernet card respectively.

seeteeyou · September 1, 2018

Now we've got the perfect combo

BTW, do you guys know the "right" answer?

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=361&tab=comments#comment-860647

On 8/10/2018 at 3:13 PM, romaz said:

Yes, this uses a better board than my own as it uses a Celeron with a larger secondary cache which should result in less latency. It also utilizes DDR4 RAM instead of DDR3. At this point, I do not know which type of RAM is lower latency.

So far I could only find stuff like this

http://www.crucial.com/usa/en/memory-performance-speed-latency

seeteeyou · September 3, 2018

I was looking at 2-bay NAS and some of them actually got an Intel Celeron processor. In other words, we could install Roon Core on either QNAP or Synology and then use our NAS as a Roon Bridge instead.

http://kb.roonlabs.com/Roon_Server_on_NAS

https://community.roonlabs.com/t/synology-ds215-as-a-roon-bridge/43466

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QNAP HS-251+ is now acting as a roon bridge in my system. of course I’ve installed the roon server on it, but just don’t login to it. I keep my main roon server on more powerful TVS-882. FYI.

There are quite a few models with Celeron out there, watch out for the plus signs or else you'll get an ARM processor instead

https://www.span.com/PLEX_NAS_compatibility_list/QNAP

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HS-251+ (J1900)
TS-251 (J1800)
TS-251+ (J1900)
TS-251A (N3060)
TS-253 Pro (J1900)
TS-253A (N3150)
TS-253B (J3455)
TS-253Be (J3455)

https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/tutorial/General/What_kind_of_CPU_does_my_NAS_have

Quote

DS218+ (J3355)
DS216+II (N3060)
DS216+ (N3050)

Granted neither brand could be "hacked" to run an operating system entirely from RAM, though we could still uninstall any packages that aren't needed for Roon

https://www.synology.com/en-global/knowledgebase/DSM/help/DSM/PkgManApp/manage

For instance, the motherboard of Synology DS216+ should be VERY simple without any unnecessary components such as on-board audio and video etc.

Just one front USB port, 2 rear USB ports, 1 LAN port, 1 eSATA port, and DC power input

Two separate clocks appeared to share the same H255L label, therefore presumably both of them could be replaced by Connor-Winfield OH4610LF-025.0M @ $55 a piece

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/connor-winfield/OH4610LF-025.0M/CW899-ND/5641634

There might be possibly one more clock on the other side of the motherboard, though it's hard to tell since the resolution of the following picture wasn't high enough

Relatively speaking, it's really MUCH simpler when compared to an Intel NUC but obviously the "magic sauce" might not be there.

BTW, there are quite a few eMMC drives available that aren't too expensive while they also have an adapter for micro SD

https://www.pine64.org/?product=16gb-emmc

https://www.pine64.org/?product=32gb-emmc

https://www.pine64.org/?product=64gb-emmc

https://ameridroid.com/products/emmc-adapter

https://ameridroid.com/products/emmc-module-for-rock64-pine-a64-lts-odroid-c-series

After that, we could even "convert" micro SD into SATA with an enclosure like this

https://www.gearbest.com/hdd-enclosure/pp_1719293.html

I also found other eMMC drives with a different interface and I "guess" that might also work for motherboards with Mini-PCIe slots like Supermicro X10SBA, though not sure if that were bootable or otherwise

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-11-3157-32GB-eMMC-SanDisk-Storage-Drive-Module-Card-CHB02-45WM6/122391491064
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Dell-Inspiron-11-3157-32GB-eMMC-SK-Hynix-Storage-Drive-Module-Card-CHA01-45WM6/112858480525

seeteeyou · September 3, 2018

1 hour ago, lmitche said:

Intel has just posted on the NUC site that the two generations of NUC recommended by Roy, NUC6CAxx and NUC7CJXX run in single channel memory mode only despite having two ram slots.

Hmm.....maybe this explains the SQ?

Asking for your help, please. I couldn't find that and maybe I wasn't looking hard enough

https://ark.intel.com/products/95062/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC6CAYH

https://ark.intel.com/products/95078/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC6CAYS

https://ark.intel.com/products/126135/Intel-NUC-Kit-NUC7CJYH

https://ark.intel.com/products/126136/Intel-NUC-7-Essential-a-Mini-PC-with-Windows-10---NUC7CJYSAL

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits/nuc6cayh.html

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/mini-pcs/nuc6cays.html

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/kits/nuc7cjyh.html

https://www.intel.com/content/www/us/en/products/boards-kits/nuc/mini-pcs/nuc7cjysal.html

Quote

Max # of Memory Channels 2

Max # of DIMMs 2

Then I tried the PDF files instead

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/boardsandkits/NUC6CAYB_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=19

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/nuc-kits/NUC7xJY_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=20

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Two memory channels

Not sure about how to interpret these block diagrams

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/boardsandkits/NUC6CAYB_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=17

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/nuc-kits/NUC7xJY_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=18

(EDIT) Oh my, looks like that really took a long time

https://communities.intel.com/message/562710#562710

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I apologize for the long time it took me to get an official answer about this issue, it required a lot of digging and questioning, the result is that at this time dual channel memory is NOT supported. However, we are working on getting it supported, but we can’t commit it will be.

seeteeyou · September 3, 2018

9 minutes ago, lmitche said:

Actually I should have written HS251+, not TS251+.

Well, they offered only up to 2GB of RAM for HS-251+ since that's soldered down. In other words, we'll have to take our time to trim either Windows or AudioLinux way down in order to boot everything into RAM.

I dunno, Roy wasn't that happy (relatively speaking) with either sMS-200ultra or ultraRendu since both of them had ARM processors. They should be much simpler when compared to an Intel NUC or Supermicro X10SBA-L because they've got nothing more than Ethernet and USB. Linux was running off micro SD cards (MLC by default, not sure about SLC ones) and it's also tricky to trim that way down. Both Dream OS and AudioLinux were built for x86 processors so no love for ARM ones.

In that case, maybe having on-board audio and video etc. might be no biggie?

BTW, I only mentioned eMMC drives for those of us who don't wanna invest the time to work on a diskless system. If that particular choice were comparable to an Intel SLC SSD, then spending $35 for 64GB ones (plus the costs of an adapter or two) could be good enough for some.

seeteeyou · September 5, 2018

Obviously I'm not Larry but here we go

NUC without eMMC
https://www.provantage.com/intel-boxnuc7cjyh1~7ITSP1N8.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-NUC7-Celeron-Mini-BOXNUC7CJYH1/dp/B07B79CS8N

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1401554-REG/intel_boxnuc7cjyh1_intel_nuc_kit_nuc7cjyh.html

NUC with eMMC

https://www.provantage.com/intel-boxnuc7cjysal1~7ITSP1NQ.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Intel-BOXNUC7CJYSAL1-Essential-Mini-Windows/dp/B07BJT463H

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1428648-REG/intel_boxnuc7cjysal1_celeron_j4005_2.html

Case
http://www.cartft.com/catalog/il/2487

http://www.performance-pcs.com/akasa-newton-jc-fanless-case-for-intelr-june-canyon.html

https://www.amazon.com/Akasa-Fanless-Pentium-Processors-NUC42-M1B/dp/B07G9Y3YG3

RAM

https://www.provantage.com/crucial-technology-ct2k8g4sfd824a~7CIAL7J0.htm

https://www.amazon.com/Crucial-PC4-19200-Unbuffered-SODIMM-260-Pin/dp/B01BIWMWVS

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1233407-REG/crucial_ct2k8g4sfs824a_16gb_2_x_8gb.html

AudioLinux

http://www.tophifi.it/html/paypal/index.html

seeteeyou · September 5, 2018

FYI - Maarten van Druten (Audio Dandy) shared a guide here

http://www.modelpromo.nl/AudioLinux-part2.htm

http://www.modelpromo.nl/audio-dandy/reviews/AudioLinux2/Installing_AudioLinux.pdf

Then it should be a plain and simple option

http://www.tophifi.it

Quote

From version 1.9.7 you can load the entire system to RAM as an option. For this you need at least 16GB RAM. There is the option to sync the entire system also in "ram mode"

seeteeyou · September 5, 2018

I just read this review of Intona Ultimate USB cable by @hols

http://www.hiendy.com/hififorum/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=121379#pid2846571

HQP → NAA → Intona Ultimate → ISO REGEN → USPCB → tX-USBultra + REF 10 → Chord Blu MkII → Chord DAVE

Overall it's able to bring MAJOR improvements to his system, what a nice surprise.

seeteeyou · September 16, 2018

43 minutes ago, Em2016 said:

Now if somebody prefers the brighter sound from more noise floor modulation, then fine - that's their taste and preference. But it's not accurate.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-hugo-2-the-official-thread.831345/page-934#post-14445774

Sometimes he's saying stuff that totally cracked me up and here's an analogy

https://kellybroganmd.com/depression-serotonin/

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To understand what imbalance is, we must know what balance looks like, and neuroscience, to date, has not characterized the optimal brain state, nor how to even assess for it.

https://www.nytimes.com/2012/04/22/magazine/the-science-and-history-of-treating-depression.html

Quote

In The New York Review of Books, Marcia Angell, a former editor of The New England Journal of Medicine, wrote: “After decades of trying to prove [the chemical-imbalance theory], researchers have still come up empty-handed.” Jonathan Rottenberg, writing in Psychology Today, skewered the idea thus: “As a scientific venture, the theory that low serotonin causes depression appears to be on the verge of collapse. This is as it should be; the nature of science is ultimately to be self-correcting. Ideas must yield before evidence.”

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC4172306/

Quote

Tianeptine is an SSRE, a selective serotonin reuptake enhancer. Instead of increasing the amount of serotonin in the brain, it is supposed to decrease it. If the theory that depression is caused by a deficiency of serotonin were correct, we would expect to make depression worse.

https://youtu.be/ISptt3CRAqc

What really *IS* "accurate" and how does one actually define that? Is it "accurate" to his ears and brain? Maybe his taste and preference are the only yardsticks when it comes to accuracy? LOL

seeteeyou · September 17, 2018

13 hours ago, Em2016 said:

Lol good questions. I guess it may possible that he relies on the (state of the art?) measured performance of his gear, as a starting point? I don't know though.

https://www.stereophile.com/content/chord-electronics-dave-da-processor-measurements

Those measurements really didn't tell us anything about the performance of that SMPS inside DAVE whatsoever unless they're "brave" enough to swap it with a worthy LPS (definitely not el cheapo ones with laughable PSRR and impedance etc.) and measure again, we've gotta be able to eliminate the confounding factors or else we can't really single out what the PSU itself is contributing to the entire system.

And then he simply dodged this question when I was trying to learn more about Hugo M Scaler's bundled SMPS:

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-267#post-14374183

Quote

How about this particular concern regarding negatively impacting other gear? Is the bundled switching PSU theoretically as well as measurably having no negative impact whatsoever?

Actually even he admitted that SMPS was doing more harm than good, we could certainly measure anything we want but in the end it's still a matter of listening to the results after the damage is done

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/chord-electronics-blu-mk-2-the-official-thread.831343/page-196#post-14103671

Quote

While neither Rob, Jay nor myself agreed on everything we heard during our listening sessions, we were all in agreement here and it was Rob's assessment that DAVE's PSU was likely negatively impacting my other gear.

seeteeyou · September 17, 2018

While Intel announced that it's delaying its 10nm ramp until late 2019, their Cannon Lake with i3-8121U @ 15W TDP will be available soon

https://ark.intel.com/products/126145/Intel-NUC-8-Home-a-Mini-PC-with-Windows-10---NUC8i3CYSM

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/www/public/us/en/documents/product-briefs/nuc8i3cysm-nuc8i3cysn-product-brief.pdf

Block diagram of Intel's latest NUC models NUC8i3CYSM and NUC8i3CYSN here

https://www.intel.com/content/dam/support/us/en/documents/mini-pcs/mini-pcs/NUC8i3CYS_TechProdSpec.pdf#page=18

https://ark.intel.com/products/126145/Intel-NUC-8-Home-a-Mini-PC-with-Windows-10---NUC8i3CYSM

https://ark.intel.com/products/128503/Intel-NUC-8-Home-a-Mini-PC-with-Windows-10---NUC8i3CYSN

$579 with 8GB of soldered-down RAM (no good for AudioLinux) and 1TB HDD, stuff like AudioPhile Linux / Snakeoil OS / wtfplay are OK since they're so slim

https://www.bhphotovideo.com/c/product/1428649-REG/intel_mini_pc_new_boxnuc8i3cysm1.html

No fanless cases from Akasa yet, most likely i3-8121U @ 15W TDP should work fine without a cooling fan.

seeteeyou · September 18, 2018

FYI - yet another USB DDC with 10MHz reference clock input

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=577443097616

http://www.erji.net/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=2122902

https://www.facebook.com/GustardAudio/posts/1062856460558624

https://www.facebook.com/GustardAudio/posts/1066113400232930

seeteeyou · September 18, 2018

9 minutes ago, rickca said:

Thanks, that looks awesome. First time I've ever heard about ES8620. Why does it say Chinese mainland buyers only?

For the very first batch, it makes sense for a relatively small company to save international orders for the future just in case Murphy's Law might give them a hard time. Even if there were less than positive feedback, it's relatively easy to deal with domestic customers. Shipping electronics from China should be a piece of cake, while returning something back to China could be trickier because customs and import duties might still be applied no matter what we're declaring.

Other than that, I couldn't tell if any trade wars were making a difference or otherwise.

seeteeyou · September 18, 2018

7 minutes ago, austinpop said:

Thanks for the great find. This looks very promising!

Other than the toroidal transformer, did you see any more details of the power supply? If the PSU is a high quality LPS, this could be a killer piece.

No problem.

It should be fairly simple to swap that out since the following picture is clearly showing its 9V @ 1.1A (YELLOW) plus another 9V @ 1.1A (GREEN) outputs respectively

http://wx2.sinaimg.cn/large/6e8c4de1gy1fvctnb77kuj215o0v94qp.jpg

seeteeyou · September 18, 2018

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

Should be - but only if you're a handy DIYer. Not for the rest of us. Unless these guys (Gustard?) could be convinced to offer it with a DC input jack?

No worries, these guys already made something for Singxer SU-1 with a somewhat similar (i.e. 2-pin on Singxer SU-1 versus 4-pin on Gustard U16) power connector

https://www.ghentaudio.com/part/dc99.html

https://kitsunehifi.com/product/singxer-su-1-dc-power-conversion-kit-kitsunehifi-2-1mmx5-5mm/

Most likely it shouldn't be that difficult to modify the panel / replace the power connector IMHO.

seeteeyou · September 18, 2018

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

I'd be really interested in trying this Gustard with DACs that accept I2S.

Finding the right HDMI cable should be the key for an I2S connection, pretty much the same deal as clock cables because we've gotta get something that's short and sweet

https://www.amazon.com/StarTech-com-0-3m-Short-Speed-Cable/dp/B00K3HF276

https://www.amazon.com/Wireowrld-Island-Cable-Meter-Length/dp/B00C6IOQ7W

https://www.amazon.com/WIREWORLD-Chroma-Audio-18Gbps-Cable/dp/B00BUMO350

https://www.amazon.com/WIREWORLD-Ultraviolet-Audio-Video-Cable/dp/B00C6GTI72

https://www.amazon.com/Wireworld-Silver-Starlight-Cable-Meters/dp/B00C6FSQ5I

https://www.amazon.com/Wireworld-Platinum-Starlight-Cable-Meter/dp/B00C6FDG8U

Besides, let's hope that Gustard U16 is compatible with the I2S pinout of PS Audio

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/denafrips-terminator-the-king-of-r2r-dac.851085/page-4#post-14199895

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1h5PMUBkldkpt1rCnAR4ZHYGZNeCe-vwIFyKWYMZWsX0

1 minute ago, austinpop said:

BTW - is that ¥ referring to yuan (CNY) or yen (YEN)?

I'm assuming yuan as, if that were yen, the cost would be about $15!

OMG, are you implying that you'd like to support something that's even more unthinkable than sweatshop operations?

I guess that 15 bucks could cover (part of) the tariffs, depending on what the percentage is gonna be.

seeteeyou · September 19, 2018

For that Supermicro X10SBA-L inside Innuos ZENith SE, some switching regulators could still be bypassed according to Innuos' director Nuno Vitorino

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=313&tab=comments#comment-813712

On 4/26/2018 at 4:25 PM, nvitorino said:

If you connect the ATX supply, the board will not use it's own switching regulators to convert to 5V and 3.3V from 12V. The interesting part is that it still uses the 12V rail on both the ATX and the 12V input separately if the 12V input is available.

Basically we could order four pieces of LT3045 from Alexey ($150 plus shipping) since the current draw of X10SBA-L is up to 1.5A. Two with 12V output, one for 5V output, and one for 3.3V output respectively

http://www.ldovr.com/category-s/123.htm

On 4/26/2018 at 4:25 PM, nvitorino said:

The result is the same, adding both ATX and 12V results is clearly superior sound with this board. If you don't want / can't get separate rails for ATX and 12V, getting at least another 12V supply and connecting a Pico-PSU will still yield benefits compared to feeding the 12V alone. If you are using a separate power supply for the SSD, 1.5A on ATX and 1.5A on 12V is enough for this board.

Further details were already posted on this thread back in April 2018

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=304&tab=comments#comment-806606

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=312&tab=comments#comment-813489

Other discussions

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/46284-lpsu-choices/?tab=comments#comment-848591

http://jplay.eu/forum/index.php?/topic/1979-rebuild-and-improved-power-supply-for-a-singlepc/?p=33317

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=2832

We could also modify the motherboard to order to feed both RAM modules directly with 1.2V, one more switching regulator is out of the way

http://www.tirnahifi.org/forum/viewtopic.php?t=3267

Pearce shared his success story with LT3045 here

https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/vendor-s-bazaar/310402-fs-ultra-low-noise-power-supply-lt3045-based-pcb-6.html#post5353416

I posted a list of SO-DIMM DDR3L RAM that won't draw more than 1.5A

https://www.computeraudiophile.com/forums/topic/30376-a-novel-way-to-massively-improve-the-sq-of-computer-audio-streaming/?page=225&tab=comments#comment-762083

Here's a link to (possibly?) the only USB 3.0 to Gigabit Ethernet adapter with external DC power input just in case you're looking for something that's potentially better than those on-board Ethernet ports

https://www.amazon.com/IO-Crest-SY-HUB24047-Gigabit-Network/dp/B01N16C75R

USB to Gigabit Fiber Ethernet for 60 bucks, just get your own GBIC off eBay for cheap

https://www.dx.com/p/winyao-usb1000f-ethernet-lan-realtek-rtl8153-usb-3-0-gigabit-fiber-network-card-white-342903

https://www.dx.com/p/winyao-usb1000f-lx-usb-3-0-1000mbps-fiber-optical-network-card-w-sfp-optical-module-black-352476

Another brand from China that's bloody expensive, though you could pick your own USB 3.0 cable

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=566593291519

https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?id=566621762771

How to properly install RTL8153 driver on Linux

https://www.pcsuggest.com/install-rtl8153-driver-linux/

http://www.realtek.com.tw/downloads/downloadsView.aspx?PFid=56&Level=5&Conn=4&DownTypeID=3