My (very) mini review of the Singxer SU-1 DDC

[FIndingit]

On 5/28/2017 at 8:18 PM, Superdad said:

 

That's not what my customers tell me.  Typically $450 with shipping and taxes.

 

I'd say it's only possible if the package slips through customs unnoticed. In my country packages coming from US never do. And then it's 1.24 x (real value + shipping). Buying from UK ends up costing the same.

 

I'm getting one soon anyway.

[Duy Le]

After modding SU1, does the hi-end USB cable make the sound better ? Yesterday I tried to test my original SU1 with Chord Silver Plus USB (5m) instead of my Supra USB (3m), the sound is clearer and forward, bass is more defined, but sound also more aggressive. The combo Intona Industrial + Supra make the sound more comfortable to me, I will test combo Intona + Chord Silver Plus. Do the Oyaide Continental 5s USB or Silver Dragon USB make the sound better after modding ?

[scan80269]

9 hours ago, Duy Le said:

After modding SU1, does the hi-end USB cable make the sound better ? Yesterday I tried to test my original SU1 with Chord Silver Plus USB (5m) instead of my Supra USB (3m), the sound is clearer and forward, bass is more defined, but sound also more aggressive. The combo Intona Industrial + Supra make the sound more comfortable to me, I will test combo Intona + Chord Silver Plus. Do the Oyaide Continental 5s USB or Silver Dragon USB make the sound better after modding ?

It is practically impossible to accurately predict sound changes with different USB cables.  In my experience, the SU-1 has some sensitivity to the USB cable attached to it, so a USB cable that manages to uphold better signal integrity going into the SU-1 can yield better sound.  It is the same reason why driving the SU-1 with an UpTone ISO REGEN (and USPCB hard adapter) results in a significant SQ uplift - due to excellent USB signal integrity entering the SU-1.

 

[Duy Le]

10 hours ago, scan80269 said:

It is practically impossible to accurately predict sound changes with different USB cables.  In my experience, the SU-1 has some sensitivity to the USB cable attached to it, so a USB cable that manages to uphold better signal integrity going into the SU-1 can yield better sound.  It is the same reason why driving the SU-1 with an UpTone ISO REGEN (and USPCB hard adapter) results in a significant SQ uplift - due to excellent USB signal integrity entering the SU-1.

 

Yes, after testing I realize the USB isolation is more important than the cable. When I use the Intona I still hear the different between 2 cables but it is not too much and the sound is not aggressive. The Chord Silver Plus is still brighter, a little bit more detail, but lack of low mid (male vocal is thinner - I am a friend of the singer so I know how his voice should be), and finally I still happy with my Supra until I finish modding my SU-1 and find out the better USB cable which have the same signature with Supra. I am also waiting for review of Iso Regen and iGalvanic.

[chauphuong]

15 hours ago, Duy Le said:

Yes, after testing I realize the USB isolation is more important than the cable. When I use the Intona I still hear the different between 2 cables but it is not too much and the sound is not aggressive. The Chord Silver Plus is still brighter, a little bit more detail, but lack of low mid (male vocal is thinner - I am a friend of the singer so I know how his voice should be), and finally I still happy with my Supra until I finish modding my SU-1 and find out the better USB cable which have the same signature with Supra. I am also waiting for review of Iso Regen and iGalvanic.

Try a dual head usb cable (plus a cheap Chinese 5v LPS). It will be likely to beat all cables you've mentioned.

[R1200CL]

On 19.5.2017 at 8:18 PM, jcn3 said:

but by the time you buy a iso regen, an lps-1 (for the iso regen) and an su-1 (not to mention mods), you're starting to approach berkeley alpha usb territory (what's another $600 after you've spent $1200+?).

 

...and your point is ?

 

That purchase a Berkeley is better route ?

[jcn3]

16 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

...and your point is ?

 

That purchase a Berkeley is better route ?

 

if you follow the quotes, the subject was investing in usb tweaks.  just advocating for a thoughtful approach to investing in a line of devices.

[bluesaint]

Can someone elaborate what makes Berkeley Alpha better? No HDMI I2S, no support for DSD, seems rather antiquated?

[FIndingit]

Maybe the fact that people who buy it, don't have an urge to tweak to it.

[R1200CL]

On 30.5.2017 at 9:22 AM, Duy Le said:

After modding SU1, does the hi-end USB cable make the sound better ? Yesterday I tried to test my original SU1 with Chord Silver Plus USB (5m) instead of my Supra USB (3m), the sound is clearer and forward, bass is more defined, but sound also more aggressive. The combo Intona Industrial + Supra make the sound more comfortable to me, I will test combo Intona + Chord Silver Plus. Do the Oyaide Continental 5s USB or Silver Dragon USB make the sound better after modding ?

 

Maybe try this one and ask for JSSG (John Swenson Shield Guidelines )

I have one in order. Pictures is in the diy cable thread. 

[R1200CL]

About all these SU-1 modification:

Only 5V  PS is to be used ? 

7V mod is not considered as good ?

 

I have a F1. I understand F1 and SU-1  is quite equal. Is the SU-1 really that better. Assuming you pay a lot for that AC supply not needed ? Anyone know the difference except more outputs. 

 

Is this similar to the SU-1 board?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/122420183602

 

(I'm soon ordering a SU-1 I think)

[elan120]

13 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

About all these SU-1 modification:

Only 5V  PS is to be used ? 

7V mod is not considered as good ?

 

5V is what's required by the main board since there is one device powered by 5V and the rest will get 3.3V from another regulator that is highly recommended to also be replaced.

 

7V input can be used if another step-down regulator is used to send 5V to the main board, and that is what I am currently running.

[R1200CL]

10 minutes ago, elan120 said:

5V is what's required by the main board since there is one device powered by 5V and the rest will get 3.3V from another regulator that is highly recommended to also be replaced.

 

7V input can be used if another step-down regulator is used to send 5V to the main board, and that is what I am currently running.

 

So if one like to go totally crazy, you could totally remove those regulators and use one LPS-1 for the 5V and another LPS-1 for the 3,3V ?

[elan120]

6 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

So if one like to go totally crazy, you could totally remove those regulators and use one LPS-1 for the 5V and another LPS-1 for the 3,3V ?

Yep, that can be done, but not sure if additional benefit can be gained tho...  Getting an IsoRegen will more than likely yield much more.

[scan80269]

20 hours ago, R1200CL said:

 

So if one like to go totally crazy, you could totally remove those regulators and use one LPS-1 for the 5V and another LPS-1 for the 3,3V ?

If one has no plans to use the MCLK/WCK feature of SU-1, it should be possible to power the SU-1 with a single LPS-1 set to 3.3V.  This will require a mod to completely bypass the LD1086 regulator on the circuit board, and connect the LPS-1 3.3V output to the regulator output rail.

 

The SU-1 circuit board receives 5V DC since there is one small chip associated with MCLK/WCK input that runs on 5V.  All other circuitry on the downstream side of the board (e.g. Xilina FPGA, Crystek oscillators and I2S differential driver are powered by 3.3V normally coming from that LD1086 regulator.  By direct powering the board with LPS-1 at 3.3V, the only functionality lost should be MCLK/WCK.

 

[R1200CL]

34 minutes ago, scan80269 said:

By direct powering the board with LPS-1 at 3.3V, the only functionality lost should be MCLK/WCK.

 

And if im planning to use RCA or AES/EBU, i dont need ?

What is the purpose og the MCLK/WCK, i2s interface ?

 

Will then removing that regulator and add that pure 3,3V from LPS-1 most likely be equal to the other suggested modifications, or maybe even an better option ?

 

Do you think this mod may be an easier operaration ?

 

Would you happen to know if there is an regulator on the F1 board that can be replaced as well (using same as for SU-1 mod) ?

Meaning as long as I Vbus power the F1 from an ISO regen, I should expect to achieve same lift in SQ ? 

 

[scan80269]

26 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

 

And if im planning to use RCA or AES/EBU, i dont need ?

What is the purpose og the MCLK/WCK, i2s interface ?

 

Will then removing that regulator and add that pure 3,3V from LPS-1 most likely be equal to the other suggested modifications, or maybe even an better option ?

 

Do you think this mod may be an easier operaration ?

 

Would you happen to know if there is an regulator on the F1 board that can be replaced as well (using same as for SU-1 mod) ?

Meaning as long as I Vbus power the F1 from an ISO regen, I should expect to achieve same lift in SQ ? 

 

The SU-1 MCLK/WCK BNC connector is actually an output, not an input (sorry for wrong description), so if you plan to use RCA or AES/EBU then you won't be using MCLK/WCK.

 

Modding an SU-1 to accept 3.3V from LPS-1 is technically quite simple, and cost effective (no cost of discrete regulator involved).  However, since I'm not aware of anyone having tried this, there is no information on how such a mod would sound, especially as compared to the other mods.  Someone needs to go ahead and try this mod and report back.  Another caveat: SU-1 modified to accept 3.3V will not be able to tolerate any higher DC input.  For example, if you accidentally bump the LPS-1 voltage selector switch to 5V or 7V for such a modified SU-1 you will fry its electronics!

 

Personally, I'd stick with replacing the LS1086 regulator with Sparkos Labs SS1117-3.3 discrete regulator.  I'm a believer of keeping voltage regulation close to their loads.  I expect the Sparkos regulator sitting on the SU-1 board to deliver better power regulation performance than an LPS-1 running in over an external DC cable (plus a run of internal DC cable inside the box).

 

I am unfamiliar with the Singxer F-1 so cannot comment on what mods may be possible.

 

[R1200CL]

The SU-1 does not need Vbus 5V ?

[scan80269]

2 minutes ago, R1200CL said:

The SU-1 does not need Vbus 5V ?

Yes, it does.  USB Vbus 5V powers the upstream side of the SU-1 (where the XMOS chip resides).  The internal linear power supply (or external 5V supply via DC kit) powers the downstream side of the SU-1.

 

If you go out of your way to disconnect USB Vbus 5V going into the SU-1 it will simply not work.

 

[R1200CL]

Thanks @scan80269 I think I like to follow your recommendations for modification. Unfortunately KitsuneHiFi was sold out of the silver edition 2 days ago, so have to wait about a month until Tim gets new silver ones. 

 

If anyone have one for sale, just PM me ?

 

[scan80269]

Here are a couple of pics showing the Sparkos Labs SS1117-3.3 discrete regulator soldered onto the circuit board of my SU-1.

 

[michaeltay5871]

Hi scan8026.  I notice that the 2 caps nearest to the Sparkos Labs are different types and you have placed the other cap supposely nearest to the Sparkos in another position.  Is this the correct configuration?

 

I notice that after the full mod to the main board the sound becomes very clean but loses some warm and body at the same time.  Has this anything to do with the change in the capacitors?

[scan80269]

2 hours ago, michaeltay5871 said:

Hi scan8026.  I notice that the 2 caps nearest to the Sparkos Labs are different types and you have placed the other cap supposely nearest to the Sparkos in another position.  Is this the correct configuration?

 

I notice that after the full mod to the main board the sound becomes very clean but loses some warm and body at the same time.  Has this anything to do with the change in the capacitors?

The 2 caps nearest the Sparkos Labs regulator are not connected in parallel.  One cap is on the regulator input side and the other on the output side.  I installed a low-ESR polymer cap on the input side, but on the output side the cap is a Panasonic FR 100uF 50V electrolytic.  This was done to follow Sparkos Labs recommendation on output capacitor for optimum regulator transient response.  The cap sitting closest to the Xilinx FPGA chip is also a Panasonic FR electrolytic.  Out of the 5 bulk caps on the board that got replaced, I used two capacitor types and three different values.  I also removed four SMD 10uF MLCC caps near the regulator.  These were also on the output side.

 

Not sure what replacement bulk caps you have installed for your SU-1.  Installing very low ESR cap(s) close to the discrete regulator output will not yield the best transient response.  This is why I did not end up with all 5 bulk caps being replaced by polymer caps.

 

I have no way of knowing whether the SQ changes you heard post-mod are related to the cap changes.  With the Sparkos Labs regulator installed, the power delivery to the oscillators and FPGA becomes cleaner, so the sound cleaning up is not surprising.  I have often noticed that whenever the sound becomes more pure (e.g. less time-smeared), it can give the impression of reduced warmth and body.  How is your SU-1 powered?  By internal linear power supply or external DC supply?

 

[michaeltay5871]

I have replaced the caps as per Energy recommendation above :

- (3) Nichicon FPCAP (R7) 220μF 6.3V 7mΩ

- (2) Panasonic FR EEU-FR1E331 330μF 25V - 56mΩ

 

The 2 Panasonic caps are placed next to the Sparko regulator.  I have little knowledge of electronics and thus have no idea at all whether the above will affect the sound quality.  Will be grateful if you can give the detailed values of your caps and where they supposed to go.

 

I am using a good grade external LPS to power the SU1 fed by Iso-Regen (LPS1) and Sms200 ultra. Have ordered 2 more LPS1 to replace current LPS. Hopefully there will more body and warmth after that.

 

 

[Duy Le]

3 hours ago, scan80269 said:

but on the output side the cap is a Panasonic FR 100uF 50V electrolytic

Is it the original cap of SU-1 ?