New Amarra 4

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

:-)

I'm glad all the hussle went fairly well and you had a satisfying listening experience!

 

I would say $69,- for preQursore2 is a very fair price.
PSP has a long track record in designing digital plugins that sound like real analog hardware.
And I feel you can hear the years of experience - everything sounds really "natural" and mature (unless you intentionally exaggerate the settings).
Using these plugins is a bit (a bit!) like switching my DAC from the solid state output stage to the tube stage - but the precission and punch of deep bass gets preserved (the tube stage of my DAC makes the bass somewhat bolder but also somewhat blurry).
There's one setting you should evaluate: SAT (output of preQursor2).
SAT applies some limiting. It's a special way of limiting and sounds really great.
However, this setting does not only alter the sonic character of the presentation, it also slightly alters the overall dynamics. SAT on is closer to Amarra4-sound (IMHO), though.
Up to you ...

 

 

Cool.  What is "limiting" in sonic terms?  I don't know much about the technical side of audio.  I'm more of the "me like", "me no like" camp. Thx

[tipunch]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

You are always welcome on Maui!  Its such a long ocean journey to get here, and the seas way more serious than the Caribbean, that sailing is not particularly popular on Maui.  We are the windsurf/ kite surf/ surfing capital of the universe, stand up paddle, and to a much lesser extent sea kayaking along the shore.  Our channels have extremely strong currents, making open ocean activities dangerous - the very conditions that make surfing so great.  Most are limited to whale watching on large powered boats, though a few hard core sailers make it here.  Of course along the shore there's snorkel trips, etc.

 

As for the settings, I did the exact A+/ preqursor2 copy_of_a settings.  Only I boosted the prequorsor2 saturation to 12 (per his suggestion to make it like Amarra).  I left the Nick Crow Lab Tube Driver on its factory settings, though may begin to play with it, as well as try some of the other tube plugins.  

 

I do feel the iFi Nano iUSB 3.0 played a big part in my positive experience.  My belief is that its reclocking, regenerating, and purifying of the usb signal made the effects of prequorsor2 and the tube driver more apparent.  The iFi removed the digital harshness that I find so offensive and was trying to fruitlessly solve via music players like A4 and A+.  I'm left to conclude that its a waste of time to try and achieve a more analog type sound out of computer without one the better USB treatment devices like the Wyred 4 Sound RUR, ISO Regan, iFi Nano/ Micro, or the PS Audio LANRover.

 

I will continue to listen to prequorsor2 until my trial runs out in a week.  If last night's experience continue's, I will gladly pay for prequorsor2 and debate whether or not to upgrade to A4 Luxe from A4.  Luxe, at least for my purposes, only adds the remote and the EQ with its presets and ability to make your own adjustments in real time.  The Luxe sounds is the same as A4.

 

Thanks to copy_of_a parting of the red sea, I can see the promised land with A+, something I never thought I'd say.  I'll still use A4 of course because it sounds so great.  But A+ is just so much less stress and effort!

OK, thanks again

[Vinbob]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Yes, that's true.  I haven't got into DSD so much yet, so for me its just the remote and EQ.  Best of luck with Sir Ralph.

Thanks - just tried calling and no one there to take my call again. Followed up with another e-mail - fingers crossed although if I can't get something soon and the date extends which looks like it will do, then I may just upgrade my A+ and call it a day - as much as I would like to try the new Amarra Luxe 4... 

[DancingSea]

46 minutes ago, Vinbob said:

Thanks - just tried calling and no one there to take my call again. Followed up with another e-mail - fingers crossed although if I can't get something soon and the date extends which looks like it will do, then I may just upgrade my A+ and call it a day - as much as I would like to try the new Amarra Luxe 4... 

 

The only thing I can say is that the beta test license was set to expire 6/30.  And now its 8/31.  How that correlates to a release date, I don't know.  And given the cost of most of our sound systems, its not unreasonable to own both A4 Luxe and A+ 3.  I own A4, Amarra HiFi, Fidelia, Bit Perfect, and A+ 2.8.  I tried A+ 3 but didn't find any sonic improvement, just mainly MQA, which I don't give a hoot about.  Tidal has always rubbed me the wrong way for some reason.

[DancingSea]

I did some comparative listening last night between Amarra 4 Luxe and the aforementioned adjusted A+.  Both are great.  I still love the Amarra 4 sound.  I can't quite put my finger on it, it just feels more "right" and cohesive - and handles rock music, or more uptempo music better.  I'll likely end up with both, but if I had to pick one sound, it would still be Amarra 4.  However, for me, the only sane way to use A4 is as a player, with small batch scans for the evening's selections, that are then cleared for each session.  Like a few CD's worth.

 

I have tested the whole iTunes library scan, as well as larger "add to library" scans which often yield uneven results.  Wanted to listen to Lyle Lovett's Joshua Judges Ruth (Lyle is a long time favorite, up there with Grateful Dead, Mark Knopfler, Van Morrison, and Sting).  Opened the album, only one track was there.  The other tracks had be tossed into "various artists".  A rescan put them all back in the right place.  A4 non Luxe does this same sort of stuff.  Its just an unnecessary chore to deal with.

 

But the Idiot Savant still got sonic game, whatcha gonna do?

[ddalmas]

hi my friend...you are right ,but  this confirms that the idiot savant still remains an idiot ! what makes me go into rage is that is like to give a gorgeous cake to an hen! (in italy we also say: to an ass)and above all a payed hen...i apologize but everytime i hear such things i can't stand to be polemical!!

ciaociao

[DancingSea]

2 minutes ago, ddalmas said:

hi my friend...you are right ,but  this confirms that the idiot savant still remains an idiot ! what makes me go into rage is that is like to give a gorgeous cake to an hen! (in italy we also say: to an ass)and above all a payed hen...i apologize but everytime i hear such things i can't stand to be polemical!!

ciaociao

 

I am a native english speaker.  I have never heard the word "polemical", had to look it up.  It is indeed an applicable word, so thanks for expanding my vocabulary.

 

I also got some periodic pops and zaps with A+, perhaps its the plugin combo?  Payed hens are indeed the worst.  

[DancingSea]

Sonic Studios responded to my bug report and inquiry.  The audio engineer confirmed that A4 is a new and improved sound engine vs A3, and that they continue to improve the new engine.  Might make sense for their marketing team to put "new and improved sound engine" somewhere on their A4 webpage???

 

The engineer also suggested trying "Launch Browser" mode.  On the app A4 window (at least in Luxe, not sure if its in regular A4), in the "window" menu choice (where "file" would normally be), in the drop down menu is a choice to "Launch Browser".  He said it works best in Chrome, so I reset my default browser to Chrome.

 

He suggested that it sounds better in this Launch Browser mode than in the app mode.  I gave it a try.  It does sound better.  Really, really, really good.  Its a work in progress - and aren't we all - but Launch Browser mode shows a lot of promise, can have multiple tabs, etc.  Be forewarned, launching in Browser mode clears the entire library at this point - which is ok for me as I load small batches anyway.  They are working on options for this.

 

Just when the savant is down, it pulls another rabbit out of that magic hat.  It sounds phenomenal, best SQ in class.

[flatmap]

I use Little Snitch to monitor network requests, and when I started Amarra 4 I got these notices corresponding to static.78-46-223-24.clients.your-server.de and another to an IP owned by Rackspace Ltd. 

 

Does anyone know what this is about? Of course I blocked both requests, but it makes me uneasy that Amarra wants to connect to these servers.

 

 

[DancingSea]

Not sure.  A4 always asked to allow network connections upon launch.  I never stopped to think what that might mean...

[Lio_B]

In waitting Amarra 4 Luxe, I tested Pure Music with iTunes, which I left for a long time, I added PreQursor2 plugin in PM (analogue +12 and EQ with a little gain + 0,6)

I compared with Amarra 4, it's even closer than A+ with PreQursor2.

Low frequencies are more precise with PM, high are prettier with A4

The advantage of PM is to use iTunes with app Remote

 

To be tested for PM owners.

[flatmap]

15 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Not sure.  A4 always asked to allow network connections upon launch.  I never stopped to think what that might mean...

 

Yes, Amarra always asks, "Do you want the application “Amarra 4.app” to accept incoming network connections?", but in only some cases does Little Snitch detect calls like those to the above IP addresses. 

 

It does also request connection to ns1.images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com, googleadapis.l.google.com, gstatic.com... but I deemed these probably legitimate to display cover art, perform search and so forth.

 

 

[DancingSea]

I asked Sonic Studios about it.  They said the main reason for the network connections is for the new luxe remote app.

[flatmap]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

I asked Sonic Studios about it.  They said the main reason for the network connections is for the new luxe remote app.

Well I can understand that they want to accept incoming network connections for a remote app.

 

HOWEVER, I cannot at all understand why they would be running an application on your-server.de.  That's the part that makes me uneasy.  Granted, I have no idea how to interpret this...

[Lio_B]

Amarra 4 Luxe is online

[DancingSea]

Interesting.  They released a quick beta last night and said release was very soon.  The beta was 25% larger than the many previous betas.

 

As for the suggested "launch browser" mode that's sounds better than app mode: As mentioned, make Chrome your default browser.

 

When Amarra 4 Luxe is initially launched upon install, I find the "launch browser" option is not listed in the "window" drop down menu.  Just quit A4L, and relaunch.  Then the "launch browser" option appears. Select it.  Quit again.  And relaunch.  Then it will launch into Chrome.

 

I suggest testing the browser option with a small batch of test tracks.  I've not been able to get it to save the library, even though its supposed to, but the "save" option was greyed out for me.  Hopefully they've solved that on the official release!  Just don't want someone to take hours to load in their entire library into browser mode only to have A4 not save it.

 

Very interested to hear what our esteemed panel thinks of the browser based SQ!

[Umetaro]

I installed Amarra 4 Luxe (Mac) and tried it for an hour.  I found the sound gorgeous!  However, there are some issues as follows.

- For some albums, the track is sorted in a reverse order.  For example, Adele Live at the Royal Albert Hall starts with Rolling in the deep instead of Hometown Glory.

- It takes a lot of time to browse iOS remote

Hope these are fixed with the next update.

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, Umetaro said:

I installed Amarra 4 Luxe (Mac) and tried it for an hour.  I found the sound gorgeous!  However, there are some issues as follows.

- For some albums, the track is sorted in a reverse order.  For example, Adele Live at the Royal Albert Hall starts with Rolling in the deep instead of Hometown Glory.

- It takes a lot of time to browse iOS remote

Hope these are fixed with the next update.

 

This is just the beginning of your library troubles.  A mere tip of the iceberg.

[xtraktz]

Amarra team, 

please add folder view navgation playback to player and remote. It will be fix library issues at all. Playback only by tags it's always problem for users who using big library good structured by folders.

[CNoblet]

I loaded my library of 23,000+ tracks last night.  Although Amarra Luxe indicated this action was successfully completed, quite a few albums do not appear when doing an Artist search.  While this is frustrating, the actual player -- including IRC, upsampling and DSD>PCM conversion -- is, so far, working well.  Activation and setup of both Amarra Luxe and IRC was a breeze compared to my experiences with prior versions.  DSD via DoP is not functional. Sound quality is nice, but I am wondering if it may not have been superseded by A+ and HQP.  (I'm using the OSX version.)

[Umetaro]

1 hour ago, DancingSea said:

 

This is just the beginning of your library troubles.  A mere tip of the iceberg.

Do you have the same problem?  From my own experiences with Amarra Symphony 3 and Amarra 4, I do not expect much from Amarra library management.  However, I really love the sound quality of Amarra and try to be constructive to make this high quality software better. 

[GregWormald]

We all (?) like the sound quality of Amarra 4 and have found ways (not always easy or simple) to make it happen for ourselves.

 

Unfortunately the company itself does not respond well to requests, nor does it fix obvious problems or institute obvious solutions.

 

Despite much feedback from the Beta test group the library management remains complex and unreliable and sometimes just plain broken and stupid. I have got to the stage where that is my expectation, as poor as it is. Honest feedback just seems to get you excluded (that's me!) from the Beta group.

 

This thread contains some good work-arounds. I hope you can use the information--Sonic Studios can't--or at least doesn't. The lack of easy usability of A4 surely hurts their bottom line.

 

Greg

 

 

[foodfiend]

6 hours ago, Umetaro said:

Do you have the same problem?  From my own experiences with Amarra Symphony 3 and Amarra 4, I do not expect much from Amarra library management.  However, I really love the sound quality of Amarra and try to be constructive to make this high quality software better. 

I think most of us here are in the same position. We love the sound quality, but loathe many other bits, including the library management.

[DancingSea]

1 hour ago, foodfiend said:

I think most of us here are in the same position. We love the sound quality, but loathe many other bits, including the library management.

 

Yes, this sums up our lengthy thread.  We've ranged from malcontent over the library pitfalls, to thoughtful zen like work arounds, to a full on mutiny to attempt to massage Audirvana into sounding like Amarra.

 

It is what is.  The library management situation is unlikely to be solved anytime soon, or at all.   That's said will all due respect to Sonic Studios and their SQ prowess.... 

[copy_of_a]

Finally, Amarra goes „audiophile“ with Luxe… they’ve incorporated hog mode („exclusive access“ of the audio device). It’s not just a button … it actually works! Finally! Great!

Not sure Luxe utilzes "integer mode" ... I would suspect it does not...

 

The library is more stable … so they’ve put some work into it.
Switching from App mode to Browser mode doesn’t clear my library here.
Loading and saving takes some time, though. It’s critical to let Amarra save everything before you switch the mode (or quit the app).
Browser mode is a different way to access the library. I can’t think of a reason why this should affect the sound. Maybe only that scrolling through the library in the Amarra App seems to stress the app and therefore may demand too much processor power… which my affect SQ.

 

Upsampling: On/off, no settings. It’s set to upsample by power of 2, which I happen to prefer anyway. IMHO it's linear upsampling … but it seems to be high quality.
There are clicks/crackles at the beginning of a track when upsampling is enabled and when the track contains sound right after the start of the tracks.

 

The library handling is as cumbersome as in the regular Amarra 4 version. No smart playlists or any way to sort by file type or so…
In the track’s drop down menu there’s an entry „delete file“. But it doesn’t work.
Still, there is hope that we can delete tracks from the library in a future update.
Updating metadata of albums and a re-scan the library doesn’t update the new metadata.
However, re-scan doesn’t result in duplicated library-entries anymore.

When you add an album the damn app saves the updated entire library as a whole (not just the updated albums)... which can take quite some time depending on the size of your library.

Loading the library at startup also takes very long.

 

Native DSD playback doesn’t work either (as mentioned above).

 

Luxe is „usable“ in a way (a bit more usable than the regular version since the library is more stable… at least on my 2 systems). Library organization (adding/deleting/updating tracks or albums) is still a pain.