New Amarra 4

[Progisus]

The problem is... every time you play a song you will wonder "does that sound as good as A4?"  Then you'll run to the computer, make an adjustment and Happy Groundhog Day. Over and over. There goes the enjoyment of music replaced by the enjoyment? of knob twisting. Just saying

[ddalmas]

pardon me sir...not overtime !once you've stated and decided the situation it will not change anymore ! so not every time but only once!when a fin e eq is done it will rest for the future just as the eq inserted in A4

ciao

[copy_of_a]

19 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Can the adjustments be made in real time as music plays, or is it like most A+ plugins that can only be adjusted when nothing is playing?

Almost all plugins can be played in real time in A+...

 

19 hours ago, ddalmas said:

i have also downloaded the retro eq and i am trying the both one after the other just for experimentation...i think that at SS they have found a very great eq setting to  get their sound ...but i also believe that it ,with patience , could be reached with other ways freeing so,who wants it, from A4 

RetroQ is an excellent EQ! However, it adds "warmth" and therefore can make the bass somewhat less precise.

RetroQ in fact goes in similar direction... but preQursor2's "analog" pre-amp section is closer to A4 than RetroQ IMHO.

Just insert preQursor2, activate the analog pre-amp section and set the analog drive to your liking (between -15 to +15). You can also activate the EQ-section (without adjusting any frequency of course) as this also slightly affetcs the overall sound. I like the analog drive at +5 and the EQ section activated.

Make sure that "SAT" is deactivated because "SAT" is a built in limiter.

Personally I also use the plugin the reduce gain. Output is set to -3db in my case.

Since preQursor2 works with 64-bit double precision floating point computations I also use a Dither plugin in the Audio Unit section of A+ (set to 24bit).

 

18 hours ago, mancolh said:

The problem is... every time you play a song you will wonder "does that sound as good as A4?"  Then you'll run to the computer, make an adjustment and Happy Groundhog Day. Over and over. There goes the enjoyment of music replaced by the enjoyment? of knob twisting. Just saying

Don't think so. Either it sounds good or not. Whether or not it sounds exactly like A4 is not so important... at least not for me.

 

On the other hand the kind of stress you are describing is what I am experiencing when listening to A4 all the time ... in a different way. A4 doesn't provide hog mode and it's impossible to control all the services/processes of the OS that may interfere with the sound. This is why I always wonder "is there irregular noise or not... is there some crackling or not?"

I can live with a lot of A4's limitations. But the missing hog mode is the most important factor why I regard A4 almost "unusable". I'm not quite sure yet but I also think A4 doesn't play from RAM either. Hog mode and playback from RAM are two core features that turn an arbitrary player app into a serious audiophile player regardless of its sound signature.

 

 

[ddalmas]

yes guys   i agree  Retro eq is s not in my intents... after having tested it i have decided that i will leave it in the backstage and i would not purchase it! about purchasing preQursor2 i am wondering about...but i can state that it really sounds good!

[tipunch]

On 3 juin 2017 at 4:59 PM, copy_of_a said:

Almost all plugins can be played in real time in A+...

 

RetroQ is an excellent EQ! However, it adds "warmth" and therefore can make the bass somewhat less precise.

RetroQ in fact goes in similar direction... but preQursor2's "analog" pre-amp section is closer to A4 than RetroQ IMHO.

Just insert preQursor2, activate the analog pre-amp section and set the analog drive to your liking (between -15 to +15). You can also activate the EQ-section (without adjusting any frequency of course) as this also slightly affetcs the overall sound. I like the analog drive at +5 and the EQ section activated.

Make sure that "SAT" is deactivated because "SAT" is a built in limiter.

Personally I also use the plugin the reduce gain. Output is set to -3db in my case.

Since preQursor2 works with 64-bit double precision floating point computations I also use a Dither plugin in the Audio Unit section of A+ (set to 24bit).

 

Don't think so. Either it sounds good or not. Whether or not it sounds exactly like A4 is not so important... at least not for me.

 

On the other hand the kind of stress you are describing is what I am experiencing when listening to A4 all the time ... in a different way. A4 doesn't provide hog mode and it's impossible to control all the services/processes of the OS that may interfere with the sound. This is why I always wonder "is there irregular noise or not... is there some crackling or not?"

I can live with a lot of A4's limitations. But the missing hog mode is the most important factor why I regard A4 almost "unusable". I'm not quite sure yet but I also think A4 doesn't play from RAM either. Hog mode and playback from RAM are two core features that turn an arbitrary player app into a serious audiophile player regardless of its sound signature.

 

 

Waouw!!!

preQursor2 is incredible!!!

And yes is very close to A4 (better?)

Thank you copy_of_a

My best settings (for the moment) is "pure preamp" in the preset

Best regards

 

[copy_of_a]

1 hour ago, tipunch said:

Waouw!!!

preQursor2 is incredible!!!

And yes is very close to A4 (better?)

Thank you copy_of_a

My best settings (for the moment) is "pure preamp" in the preset

Best regards

 

 

I'm glad some of you like the plugin and agree that it's close to A4.

 

Initially I've sent preQursor2 to "DancingSea" by personal message because I didn't want to start a discussion about the plugin and its settings in the Amarra 4 thread. But if everyone is fine that we talk off topic about how to achieve an Amarra-like sound with Audirvana Plus I certainly don't mind discussing preQursor2 here. After all there is not so much to say about Amarra itself at the moment... If someone feels offended please let us know.

 

Today I had some time to fiddle around with preQursor2. Meanwhile I've also deactivated the EQ-section so that only the ("analog") pre-amp section is at work. I've dialed down the analog drive from +5 to +3.5. So a tad "richer" than the "pure preamp" preset (where the analog drive is set to zero).

 

Does it sound "better"? For me personally the package Audirvana Plus (with all its settings) and preQursor2 is better than A4 in its current state. I am not a big fan of linear upsampling (only for classical music)... I mostly prefer low pre-ringing. With my iZotope SRC settings, Direct Mode turned off, preQursor2 and PSP-X-Dither (mildly shaped) I feel that both apps sound pretty similar - but I get a better grip and finer texture in the bass and low mids section with A+.

Too, as outlined above, I'm really missing hog mode in A4. As long as they don't incorporate hog mode I n't use A4 anymore.

[ddalmas]

would someone please  try this A+  preQ2 preset and tell  his impressions about it?

many thks

 

 

Senza titolo.tiff

[Progisus]

Well I don't want to be closed minded so I tried preQursor2 with A+3. I tried the different presets suggested above and then went back to A4. I like the sound better with A4 and will stick with it until the next big thing. If I want to play with settings I will use A+3 and upsample to DSD. I have all my files in flac and have been very careful with tagging. They load pretty flawlessly in A4. Thanks for the suggested plugin. Awaiting Luxe.

[DancingSea]

On 6/4/2017 at 0:24 PM, copy_of_a said:

 

Initially I've sent preQursor2 to "DancingSea" by personal message because I didn't want to start a discussion about the plugin and its settings in the Amarra 4 thread. But if everyone is fine that we talk off topic about how to achieve an Amarra-like sound with Audirvana Plus I certainly don't mind discussing preQursor2 here. After all there is not so much to say about Amarra itself at the moment... If someone feels offended please let us know.

 

 

My thinking was that even those of us who support A4 dearly wish it performed better in the non-sonic areas - thus why not talk about it in our informal A4 therapy group?  A+ gets so much function correct.  If preQursor2 can make A+ sound like A4, that would be the best of both worlds.  I have it loaded in A+ and will give it go soon.

[DancingSea]

On 6/4/2017 at 0:24 PM, copy_of_a said:

 

I'm glad some of you like the plugin and agree that it's close to A4.

 

 

Thanks again for sharing the preQursor2 and Retro Q plugins.  They do wonders for A+, which heretofore was unlistenable to me.  I like Retro Q on the "Air" setting.  I wish it had more presets as I really have no idea what all the knobs do.

 

preQursor2 was also excellent.  I settled on the "Pure Pre", "On Tape", or "Default" presets - dialing the analog setting all the way up on all - and adjusting the gain as needed.  Went back and forth between those and A4.  All sounded very good.  A4 is perhaps a bit more liquid and smooth, but the A+ setup was very enjoyable.

 

On the preQursor2 webpage, it says it includes presets created by Grammy award winning mix engineer Michael Brauer.  Yet on the actual presets, I didn't see any specifically attributed to him.  Were they all created by him?

 

Hard to say which arrangement is better.  I still love Amarra 4 Luxe's sound.  However it was luxurious to just relax into A+'s iTunes integrated mode and wander through my library like a normal human being again, instead of my convoluted, yet effective, coping mechanisms to deal with A4.

 

Does PSP Audioware have sales?  I didn't realize the $39 offer would vanish so quickly.

 

I have a new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC arriving tomorrow.  After 100 hours or so of break in, will be interesting to see how the various A4 Luxe and A+ w/ the PSP Audioware EQ's sound.

[copy_of_a]

2 hours ago, DancingSea said:

I like Retro Q on the "Air" setting.  I wish it had more presets as I really have no idea what all the knobs do.

The knobs are pretty much self-explaining I think. The large knobs adjust the gain (boost or attenuation) of the frequency set in the corresponding small knobs (LF = low frequencies, MF = mid frequencies, HF = high frequencies). So for the attached image of PSPs website it's +3db at 100Hz, +4db at 2kHz, -5db at 6kHz. The highpass filter is deactivated and overall gain is set to +3db. Furthermore "SAT" is engaged ... which is a built in limiter.

A manual is contained in the installer ...

 

 

Quote

preQursor2 was also excellent.  I settled on the "Pure Pre", "On Tape", or "Default" presets - dialing the analog setting all the way up on all - and adjusting the gain as needed.  Went back and forth between those and A4. All sounded very good.  A4 is perhaps a bit more liquid and smooth, but the A+ setup was very enjoyable.

nice! :-)

 

Quote

On the preQursor2 webpage, it says it includes presets created by Grammy award winning mix engineer Michael Brauer.  Yet on the actual presets, I didn't see any specifically attributed to him.  Were they all created by him?

not sure which of the presets are made by M. Brauer. But I would think the presets refer to dedicated instruments (bass drum, guitar, voice or whatever). I don't think anyone would make a preset to sweaten overall mixes ... which is what we are after when we try to re-create Amarra-Sound with different softwares. "Pure Pre" is what we want here with the "analog" pre-amp drive set to your liking.

[quark]

3 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Thanks again for sharing the preQursor2 and Retro Q plugins.  They do wonders for A+, which heretofore was unlistenable to me.  I like Retro Q on the "Air" setting.  I wish it had more presets as I really have no idea what all the knobs do.

 

preQursor2 was also excellent.  I settled on the "Pure Pre", "On Tape", or "Default" presets - dialing the analog setting all the way up on all - and adjusting the gain as needed.  Went back and forth between those and A4.  All sounded very good.  A4 is perhaps a bit more liquid and smooth, but the A+ setup was very enjoyable.

 

On the preQursor2 webpage, it says it includes presets created by Grammy award winning mix engineer Michael Brauer.  Yet on the actual presets, I didn't see any specifically attributed to him.  Were they all created by him?

 

Hard to say which arrangement is better.  I still love Amarra 4 Luxe's sound.  However it was luxurious to just relax into A+'s iTunes integrated mode and wander through my library like a normal human being again, instead of my convoluted, yet effective, coping mechanisms to deal with A4.

 

Does PSP Audioware have sales?  I didn't realize the $39 offer would vanish so quickly.

 

I have a new PS Audio Stellar Gain Cell DAC arriving tomorrow.  After 100 hours or so of break in, will be interesting to see how the various A4 Luxe and A+ w/ the PSP Audioware EQ's sound.

Hi DancingSea,

 Have you used IRC with Luxe yet?

Surely that will take Amarra Luxe to a level above A+

[copy_of_a]

On 5.6.2017 at 11:44 AM, ddalmas said:

would someone please  try this A+  preQ2 preset and tell  his impressions about it?

many thks

Senza titolo.tiff

I think we should differentiate altering the sound by EQ-ing (boosting or attentuating dedicated frequencies) from altering the overall "tonality"/"presentation". You've boosted the bass (90Hz) and also 4300Hz and 10kHz. This might sound good on your system and maybe you prefer a bold bass. But I think a lot of users would find this setting... well, let's say "special".

 

The beauty of the pre-amp filter is it is emulating the way how analog pre-amps (actual pre-amps, so hardware) affect the sound. Quote from the PSP site:

Quote

The PSP preQursor2 introduces PSP's Advanced Analog Modelling of preamplifier and filters to accurately recreate an analog-like behavior.

Assumed we are talking about a hypothetical linear pre-amp, this would not boost or attentuate certain frequencies. It would just affect the overall presentation of the overall mix. It sounds as if there was more "energy" in every tone (every tone "sings" and sounds "rounder") - but equally in every tone all over the frequency range.

(Sorry for the goofy poetic description ... but I could not even describe this very accurate in my native language...)

 

Therefore I fear there is no point in sharing settings in which the EQ is altered...

 

As far as your +15 analog pre-amp drive goes I feel this is too much (at least in my system). If you try to get as close as possible to Amarra, I think it should be set somewhere between -2 and +5  (and the EQ bands off) ...

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

The knobs are pretty much self-explaining I think. The large knobs adjust the gain (boost or attenuation) of the frequency set in the corresponding small knobs (LF = low frequencies, MF = mid frequencies, HF = high frequencies). So for the attached image of PSPs website it's +3db at 100Hz, +4db at 2kHz, -5db at 6kHz. The highpass filter is deactivated and overall gain is set to +3db. Furthermore "SAT" is engaged ... which is a built in limiter.

A manual is contained in the installer ...

 

"Pure Pre" is what we want here with the "analog" pre-amp drive set to your liking.

 

For me, I wouldn't know how to adjust the knobs to achieve an Amarra like sound in Retro Q.  I have focused on "Pure Pre" and adjusting the analog dial/ gain as needed, though I generally like analog in the 10 range, depending on the recording.  I was able to listen to several CD's on A+ for the first time without turning it off after 5 minutes.  I think I still give the sonic nod to A4 Luxe, but Audirvana Plus with the preQursor2 plugin is very good sound wise, and a great relief in terms of functionality vs A4.

[DancingSea]

6 hours ago, quark said:

Hi DancingSea,

 Have you used IRC with Luxe yet?

Surely that will take Amarra Luxe to a level above A+

 

Haven't tried IRC yet as the cost is higher than I'm currently comfortable allocating to the Sonic Studio universe. In what way did it improve your system?

[copy_of_a]

5 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

For me, I wouldn't know how to adjust the knobs to achieve an Amarra like sound in Retro Q.

Me personally I don't think "RetroQ" is the right tool to re- create Amarra-like sound. This is why I did not post it here (ddalmas did).

To add warmth on overall mixes (the final music) I'd rather recommend "Mix Saturator2" with very moderate settings... http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_mixsaturator2/

... but personally I think it does not really match our requirements regarding an emulation of Amarra-Sound (apart from that it's a really GREAT tool!!). It also slightly blurrs deep bass... just like real tube amps do.

BTW... there are  other vendors offering "analog" sounding plugins... it just happened that I've came across PSP some years ago and simply LOVED the sound and the handling (simplicity!) of its plugins. Great design ... IMHO...

 

Quote

I have focused on "Pure Pre" and adjusting the analog dial/ gain as needed, though I generally like analog in the 10 range, depending on the recording.

On several thin sounding 80th recordings I also would prefer a higher setting on the analog pre-amp drive. However, I don't want to adjust plugins every time I listen to a different album. This is why I prefer a lower setting (+3.5).

 

Quote

I was able to listen to several CD's on A+ for the first time without turning it off after 5 minutes.  I think I still give the sonic nod to A4 Luxe, but Audirvana Plus with the preQursor2 plugin is very good sound wise, and a great relief in terms of functionality vs A4.

I'm glad you like it. I am also really enjoying A+ with preQursor2 for rock/pop/electronic music (95% in my case...). For classical/orchestral music listening sessions I favour HQPlayer upsampled to DSD128...

[DancingSea]

53 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

Me personally I don't think "RetroQ" is the right tool to re- create Amarra-like sound. This is why I did not post it here (ddalmas did).

To add warmth on overall mixes (the final music) I'd rather recommend "Mix Saturator2" with very moderate settings... http://www.pspaudioware.com/plugins/dynamic_processors/psp_mixsaturator2/

... but personally I think it does not really match our requirements regarding an emulation of Amarra-Sound (apart from that it's a really GREAT tool!!). It also slightly blurrs deep bass... just like real tube amps do.

BTW... there are  other vendors offering "analog" sounding plugins... it just happened that I've came across PSP some years ago and simply LOVED the sound and the handling (simplicity!) of its plugins. Great design ... IMHO...

 

On several thin sounding 80th recordings I also would prefer a higher setting on the analog pre-amp drive. However, I don't want to adjust plugins every time I listen to a different album. This is why I prefer a lower setting (+3.5).

 

I'm glad you like it. I am also really enjoying A+ with preQursor2 for rock/pop/electronic music (95% in my case...). For classical/orchestral music listening sessions I favour HQPlayer upsampled to DSD128...

 

Thanks for the suggestion.  Can MixSaturator2 be bought separately, or do you have to buy the whole pack?

 

Also, I see it adds saturation to achieve the tube like effect.  preQursor2 also has a saturation feature, is that the same sort of thing?

[tipunch]

Hello,

The best setting for me closest to Amarra 4:

 

As DancingSea I prefer the gain in +10 (+5 is not enough and +15 is too much)

 

For those who already have the Luxe version: How are the SQ of DSD files (via DOP)?

Cause with Amarra 4, I have far too much breath noise?

 

Best regards

[ddalmas]

hi folks...i am wondering if we all are nor going out of the right way!! I am a recording engineer since early 80's and also an hi end audio fans this i can certainly say: everything in the path of an audio signal is intended to alterate the sound itself, anyway!good or bad that it could be the alteration it is anyway an alteration.well this said we can pass to  further considerations:

1 we are talking about liquid music where there is not any standard from where  having the correct  starting point ( this is almost always true in sound recording/repoducing at any level you choose) so we do not know the correct sound truly is.the only real truth is to listen to live music and live instruments!

2  we got lo of audio players that give you back the sound of your files everyone in its own way with its own character! But what does really any single player do to affect the sound? surely it does an its own alteration in sound using parameter that we here do not know!

3  so where is the truth? iTunes sounds plastic like, Vlc slightly differen,t A+ close to flat A4 more analog,,Hq player also different but...where is real truth???nobody can say and this the only reality!

4  so we ,audiophile listeners, have our  2 ears to judge the sound and thus these 2 ears are the only judges of sound  but every couple of ears is different from all the others couples! thus truth could vary from one to another .

5  Now we almost all agree that A4 gives you back the best sound ever heard from a Mac/PC USB source, but why this what do the SS staff do to generate that sound?I don't know what but i can say for sure that they add something to affect the original file sound to come out that likable way it comes out....and so do the other players.well this could justify th use of any  mean to reach the most likable sound we want,such as  preamps , eqs compressors expanders and so on, but we MUST realize that original files are anyway alterated!

6  all this poem just to say that we want to reach a most likable sound (in this case A4 sound)and not the absolute truth of life! so any way is well accepted to reach our goal.

7 all the controversies of mine in this forum were just intended to this :  why we have to complicate our life to search alternatives to A4 just because it is almost not usable ,when life could be so simple only with a little further effort form SS staff?A4  could be, in this  actual times, the best for listening to music from a mac...this is  the unbelievable and we  continue in turning around pre, eq and players!!! this makes me in real anger.

[Wotan]

Completely agree

[copy_of_a]

10 hours ago, DancingSea said:

Can MixSaturator2 be bought separately, or do you have to buy the whole pack?

the whole pack... AFAIK.

 

Quote

Also, I see it adds saturation to achieve the tube like effect.  preQursor2 also has a saturation feature, is that the same sort of thing?

the large "Saturation" knob in the center adjusts the strength of the analog warmth/saturation effect.

on the right hand side there is also a small "outsat" knob. this activates a built in limiter.

"SAT" in preQursor2 is also such a ("outsat"-) limiter.

 

2 hours ago, ddalmas said:

why we have to complicate our life to search alternatives to A4 just because it is almost not usable ,when life could be so simple only with a little further effort form SS staff?

Actually you are right.

Then again if there are alternatives to A4's sound there is really no point in buying A4 anymore.

So SS has to work much harder to make us buy their software.

If we buy their softwares although they do not get the most basic features right (hog mode, integer mode, playback from RAM and a library system that at least "works" to some degree) ... then we ourselves are at fault for this.

 

I have to say I can very well live with Audirvana & preQursor2 and will definitely NOT upgrade to Luxe... unless they fix this amateurish piece of software. Only downside with AU/VST-plugins ... they cannot be applied to DSD files. So if you want Amarra-like sound with DSD... you'd need a working version of Amarra.

 

[quark]

18 hours ago, DancingSea said:

 

Haven't tried IRC yet as the cost is higher than I'm currently comfortable allocating to the Sonic Studio universe. In what way did it improve your system?

 Well, IRC with symphony made a massive difference. Everything became so much clearer as everything reaches your ears at the right time, if you've done the tests properly.

The amount of difference you get is probably determined on how acoustic your room and listening position is. Unless your stereo set up is in a clean equal shaped room with no furniture except for listening position, I'd expect big improvements using IRC, although again only if the tests have done properly.  

[DancingSea]

8 hours ago, ddalmas said:

 

7 all the controversies of mine in this forum were just intended to this :  why we have to complicate our life to search alternatives to A4 just because it is almost not usable ,when life could be so simple only with a little further effort form SS staff?A4  could be, in this  actual times, the best for listening to music from a mac...this is  the unbelievable and we  continue in turning around pre, eq and players!!! this makes me in real anger.

 

Of course, what you've written is true.  However, wishing doesn't make it so.  The "what is" is that Amarra 4 is an idiot savant, and short of an epiphany, likely to remain firmly in that lane for the foreseeable future.  Which leaves two choices, cope with A4's issues and or find an alternative.

 

I like the A+ with preQursor option, though not sold that it sounds better than A4.  It does bring peace of mind, which is worth something.  

 

Until the day Amarra 4 reaches its full potential, the "what is" dictates we resume our regularly scheduled programming of tweaks and hacks.

 

C'est la vie!

[DancingSea]

5 hours ago, copy_of_a said:

I have to say I can very well live with Audirvana & preQursor2 and will definitely NOT upgrade to Luxe... unless they fix this amateurish piece of software. Only downside with AU/VST-plugins ... they cannot be applied to DSD files. So if you want Amarra-like sound with DSD... you'd need a working version of Amarra.

 

 

I've been using Luxe for the past couple of weeks.  There are a few minor improvements to the functionality, but it largely remains the same as A4.  Two large, and I find helpful differences are the EQ and the iOS remote - both of which work fairly well.  I like being able to easily tweak sound with the EQ, and the iOS remote saves me a trip across the room.  For that reason, I will upgrade to Luxe.  The caveat being it remains an idiot savant with many afore mentioned functional shortcomings.

[tipunch]

12 minutes ago, DancingSea said:

 

I've been using Luxe for the past couple of weeks.  There are a few minor improvements to the functionality, but it largely remains the same as A4.  Two large, and I find helpful differences are the EQ and the iOS remote - both of which work fairly well.  I like being able to easily tweak sound with the EQ, and the iOS remote saves me a trip across the room.  For that reason, I will upgrade to Luxe.  The caveat being it remains an idiot savant with many afore mentioned functional shortcomings.

Thank you DancingSea,

But, how are the SQ with DSD files (via DOP)?
Best regards