Sonore microRendu

[jabbr]

Those formats are not the ones being used going forward for adding DSD support in linux. For information on what devices support native DSD on the Sonicorbiter SE and the microRendu use this link:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f26-sonore-sponsored/sonore-sonicorbiter-se-native-direct-stream-digital-support-27418/

 

I mistyped, iFi Micro iDSD, for example, is listed as supporting PCM_FORMAT_DSD_U32_BE (not LE)...

 

according to: https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/blob/master/README.md

 

that's what I mean by "native" DSD. I was responding to:

'm sorry I don't know all the details about what is inside Daphile so I can't give some definitive answers, but I'm pretty sure you cannot convert PCM to DSD and send as DSD512 over ASIO protocol to a DAC with the microRendu.

I'm confused.

[cat6man]

Would you say running Minimserver on a NAS, BubbleUPnP on an Android device, and the MicroRendu in UPnP mode would be the purest/simplest configuration possible to play non upsampled PCM? I'm curious as to the simplest implementation of the MicroRendu (without sacrificing SQ) to play PCM and let my DAC's filter to the work.

 

exactly my plan also............that is what i have today with the sms-100 instead of uRendu

[cat6man]

Hi Vinnie - Connecting straight from your laptop running Roon to the microRendu with an Ethernet cable will only work if you manually set the IP address on both the laptop and the microRendu. The microRendu will also need it's default gateway set to the address of your laptop.

 

I've done this with the Sonicorbiter SE.

 

hi chris,

can you describe how you set your sonicorbiter SE to a manual/fixed IP address?

thanks

[vortecjr]

I mistyped, iFi Micro iDSD, for example, is listed as supporting PCM_FORMAT_DSD_U32_BE (not LE)...

 

according to: https://github.com/lintweaker/xmos-native-dsd/blob/master/README.md

 

that's what I mean by "native" DSD. I was responding to:

I'm confused.

 

All you have to do is select the output mode from the GUI:)

[vortecjr]

hi chris,

can you describe how you set your sonicorbiter SE to a manual/fixed IP address?

thanks

 

We gave him access to command line (I forget why), but we don't normally do this for customers.

[earnmyturns]

We gave him access to command line (I forget why), but we don't normally do this for customers.

I got fixed IP addresses for my sMS-100 and Sonicorbiter SE by telling DHCP in my router (Ubiquiti EdgeRouter) to map their MAC addresses to specified IPs. In general, sorting out IP address allocation in the DHCP server makes a lot more sense than messing around with individual networked devices.

[earnmyturns]

exactly my plan also............that is what i have today with the sms-100 instead of uRendu

Ditto, with an sMS-100 for my headphone system and a Sonicorbiter SE for my speaker system. My first microRendu will likely go to replace the sMS-100, taking over its 9V Teddy Pardo PS as well.

[Distinctive]

I got fixed IP addresses for my sMS-100 and Sonicorbiter SE by telling DHCP in my router (Ubiquiti EdgeRouter) to map their MAC addresses to specified IPs. In general, sorting out IP address allocation in the DHCP server makes a lot more sense than messing around with individual networked devices.

The trouble with doing this is that you are still dependent on a DHCP server, for those who just want to connect to the source by using a crossover cat.5.

[hifi_swlon]

We gave him access to command line (I forget why), but we don't normally do this for customers.

 

Wouldn't it be relatively easy to just have a menu item in the web GUI for assigning the microRendu a static IP rather than using DHCP? After which I'm assuming the you would just access the GUI via it's static IP address, rather than going to the sonore website.

 

I'm sure many people would like to do that regardless of being at a show. I generally set a static IP for anything in my house which is staying put. All my hifi gear and NAS, servers etc are static IP. I know of people who don't even have the internet accessible on their hifi network.

[The Computer Audiophile]

We gave him access to command line (I forget why), but we don't normally do this for customers.

I was troubleshooting a problem with Roon support and needed to test a direct connection between the SE and my laptop.

[earnmyturns]

The trouble with doing this is that you are still dependent on a DHCP server, for those who just want to connect to the source by using a crossover cat.5.

I guess, although I've always found those direct connections a source of trouble, while a good router makes things easier and more flexible.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I got fixed IP addresses for my sMS-100 and Sonicorbiter SE by telling DHCP in my router (Ubiquiti EdgeRouter) to map their MAC addresses to specified IPs. In general, sorting out IP address allocation in the DHCP server makes a lot more sense than messing around with individual networked devices.

This is how I recommend it 99% of the time when someone wants a specific IP for a device(s).

[The Computer Audiophile]

I guess, although I've always found those direct connections a source of trouble, while a good router makes things easier and more flexible.

+1

[cat6man]

I got fixed IP addresses for my sMS-100 and Sonicorbiter SE by telling DHCP in my router (Ubiquiti EdgeRouter) to map their MAC addresses to specified IPs. In general, sorting out IP address allocation in the DHCP server makes a lot more sense than messing around with individual networked devices.

 

the reason i wanted to try a fixed IP in the sms-100 was to see if the startup time would be shorter if it didn't have to negotiate an IP address with the dhcp server. i'm not sure if having the IP fixed at the dhcp server would help, but then i don't know if fixed IP address at the sms-100 helps either.

 

since i'm getting a uRendu anyway, it is (or will be) a moot point.

[JohnSwenson]

I'm not sure I'm following this. Are you saying that microRendu does not support that "native" DSD UAC2 USB transport at all? Specifically in the ALSA driver: PCM_FORMAT_DSD_U16_LE or PCM_FORMAT_DSD_U32_LE ? ... this is now part of Linux kernel.

 

To simply let's forget squeezebox for the moment and assume HQPlayer communicating with NAA/networkaudiod so the data comes in as DSD. It could get sent over USB as DoP or native (what you are calling ASIO but I'd like to stick to UAC2

 

Hi Jabbr,

UAC2 knows nothing about DSD, so any form of directly sending DSD data over USB (such as the ASIO protocol) is not part of UAC2, it is in addition to UAC2. The latest kernels are supporting this protocol, but they wound up with some incompatibilities between DACs. The protocol itself did not have a hard and fast definition document so different DAC manufacturers had to try and figure out what worked and sometimes wound up with slightly different interpretations of what the protocol was.

 

There is no easy way for an ALSA driver to find out which of these versions a particular DAC is using, so it looks like they are using the approach of looking at the USB ID. For example any DAC using an XMOS chip and its firmware will work with the same interface from the ALSA driver, so if the DAC uses the XMOS ID, then the ALSA driver knows how to talk to it. If the DAC manufacturer has put their own ID in the firmware rather than the XMOS ID, the ALSA driver won't know how to talk to it. A similar situation exists for Amanaro based receivers.

 

So if a DAC is using one of the generic receivers and doesn't use the companies own ID, then it should work. If it uses the company ID then that ID has to get added to a table in the kernel. Kind of a cumbersome situation.

 

If the DAC is using a receiver that has not already been worked out then the ALSA team has to get the hardware and figure out how to talk to it.

 

The kernel in the microRendu DOES support this protocol, but the program that implements a mode has to know about it. It has to know about dealing with DSD data and call ALSA with the appropriate parameters to turn on the protocol and tell ALSA what format of DSD data it will be using.

 

In my post on Daphile I was assuming using the Squeeze box mode which uses squeezelite which does NOT know anything about DSD data or how to call ALSA appropriately to setup the "native/ASISO" protocol. Thus the only way to deal with DSD with squeezelite is DoP. My statement you are referring to was specifically about using Daphile talking to squeezelite not generically about the microRendu.

 

For NAA mode, it knows specifically about DSD data and how to call ALSA to set things up properly for the "native/ASIO" protocol, so it should work. But again the kernel has to know how to talk to the specific DAC being used.

 

 

MPD should also work. I'm not sure about DLNA, it should work as long as you have a server that supports DSD.

 

John S.

[vortecjr]

We are looking into adding native DSD support for the SqueezeLite output mode. We have been looking into it for a while, but today we made some progress. It's on the radar and needs testing, but it looks promising.

[earnmyturns]

the reason i wanted to try a fixed IP in the sms-100 was to see if the startup time would be shorter if it didn't have to negotiate an IP address with the dhcp server. i'm not sure if having the IP fixed at the dhcp server would help, but then i don't know if fixed IP address at the sms-100 helps either.

DHCP negotiation is pretty trivial compared to everything else involved in bringing up Linux in a fairly slow machine like the sMS-100. In any case, there's no good reason to turn the sMS-100 off and on, mine stays on continuously unless I leave town for a long period and unplug all my electronic gadgets. Keeping renderers and DACs always on at their target operating temperatures helps with clock accuracy/reduced jitter, anyway.

[Dimitris71]

We are looking into adding native DSD support for the SqueezeLite output mode. We have been looking into it for a while, but today we made some progress. It's on the radar and needs testing, but it looks promising.

Hi can you please tell me which cable is best for the sonicorbiter se or the microrendu cat 6-7-8 ?

[elnino]

We are looking into adding native DSD support for the SqueezeLite output mode. We have been looking into it for a while, but today we made some progress. It's on the radar and needs testing, but it looks promising.

 

If the first mR units go out without this native DSD support for the Sqeezelite output mode, would they be able to be upgraded with a firmware/driver update once you get it working? Thanks.

[Theobetley]

I have been following this thread for weeks but do not recall seeing a release date. Is there a release or shipping date?

[juanitox]

I have been following this thread for weeks but do not recall seeing a release date. Is there a release or shipping date?

 

search harder you will find some answer..........or not

[jabbr]

Hi Jabbr,

UAC2 knows nothing about DSD, so any form of directly sending DSD data over USB (such as the ASIO protocol) is not part of UAC2, it is in addition to UAC2. The latest kernels are supporting this protocol, but they wound up with some incompatibilities between DACs. The protocol itself did not have a hard and fast definition document so different DAC manufacturers had to try and figure out what worked and sometimes wound up with slightly different interpretations of what the protocol was.

 

There is no easy way for an ALSA driver to find out which of these versions a particular DAC is using, so it looks like they are using the approach of looking at the USB ID. For example any DAC using an XMOS chip and its firmware will work with the same interface from the ALSA driver, so if the DAC uses the XMOS ID, then the ALSA driver knows how to talk to it. If the DAC manufacturer has put their own ID in the firmware rather than the XMOS ID, the ALSA driver won't know how to talk to it. A similar situation exists for Amanaro based receivers.

 

So if a DAC is using one of the generic receivers and doesn't use the companies own ID, then it should work. If it uses the company ID then that ID has to get added to a table in the kernel. Kind of a cumbersome situation.

 

If the DAC is using a receiver that has not already been worked out then the ALSA team has to get the hardware and figure out how to talk to it.

 

The kernel in the microRendu DOES support this protocol, but the program that implements a mode has to know about it. It has to know about dealing with DSD data and call ALSA with the appropriate parameters to turn on the protocol and tell ALSA what format of DSD data it will be using.

 

In my post on Daphile I was assuming using the Squeeze box mode which uses squeezelite which does NOT know anything about DSD data or how to call ALSA appropriately to setup the "native/ASISO" protocol. Thus the only way to deal with DSD with squeezelite is DoP. My statement you are referring to was specifically about using Daphile talking to squeezelite not generically about the microRendu.

 

For NAA mode, it knows specifically about DSD data and how to call ALSA to set things up properly for the "native/ASIO" protocol, so it should work. But again the kernel has to know how to talk to the specific DAC being used.

 

 

MPD should also work. I'm not sure about DLNA, it should work as long as you have a server that supports DSD.

 

John S.

 

Thanks John. Yes things are all too often more complicated behind the scenes than they ought to be. If we have the XMOS and Amanero interfaces and 4 PCM_FORMAT_DSD native DSD options at least there is some coalescence-- in any case the DSC1 using updated Amanero firmware should work with microRendu at DSD256/512.

[agillis]

Hi can you please tell me which cable is best for the sonicorbiter se or the microrendu cat 6-7-8 ?

 

Cat 7 works very well. I like the fact that each pair is shielded. Even though this is not required for gig Ethernet it will cut down on total electrical noise.

[Distinctive]

Cat 7 works very well. I like the fact that each pair is shielded. Even though this is not required for gig Ethernet it will cut down on total electrical noise.

How do you know if the shield really is utilized?

Most routers have a DC supply, and I am not sure if the RJ45 is commonly grounded at all times?

[vortecjr]

If the first mR units go out without this native DSD support for the Sqeezelite output mode, would they be able to be upgraded with a firmware/driver update once you get it working? Thanks.

 

Yes, we would just update the one App needed to make it work. This will not be done until it can be tested and proven to work well.