Bifrost Multibit?

[maximum kahuna]

Took my uber-Bifrost out of my SB Touch system and sent it off to Schiit for the multibit upgrade. One day turnaround, too bad it takes three days for FedEx to get it each way between Illinois and California. Last night we're eating dinner and my wife, who has no interest in the minutiae of good audio and usually just humors me when I ask her how the music sounds, asks what's up with the music. She says it sounds "tinny and flat." I try using the SBT dac, various settings on my Yamaha with its dac and it sounds really ordinary. The soundstage has collapsed and there's no punch.It's funny how jaded we get listening to our system over time. Now that's it's out of the system, I really appreciate the sound of the Bifrost! It's no longer an inexpensive dac but boy does my system sound flat without it! I can't wait to get it back in there.

[Melvin]

snip ...

 

She says it sounds "tinny and flat."

 

That's great! During dinner? Hope you didn't choke on your food ;-)

 

I look forward to reading your impressions once the Bifrost is back and all settled in. I doubt you will be disappointed.

[Sam Lord]

That's a GREAT ad for the SBT.

 

"Sounds tinny and flat...

 

....compared to....

 

......THE BIMBY!"

[maximum kahuna]

That's a GREAT ad for the SBT.

 

"Sounds tinny and flat...

 

....compared to....

 

......THE BIMBY!"

 

The SBT does exactly what I want it to...deliver music wirelessly to my stereo. I always thought its dac sounded ordinary at best. In truth it sounds as good as my HRT Music Streamer did, which was my first stand alone dac. Still, for $225 six years ago, it has delivered as promised. There's no other way to get digital bits to the dac in my family room as inexpensively. No one should expect it to sound like a $5,000 streamer.

I am looking forward to getting my BIMBY back

[Sam Lord]

I meant it not as a cut against the SBT but rather a superlative towards Bimby. And I need to send my Bifrost in, after I get a timeframe from them.

[maximum kahuna]

I meant it not as a cut against the SBT but rather a superlative towards Bimby. And I need to send my Bifrost in, after I get a timeframe from them.

 

Their turn around was great. I got a notice to send in my Bifrost just a couple of days after I made the purchase. They received it on Thursday and sent it back on Saturday. 3 days each way via FedEx (Illinois to California and back) less than 10 days total.

[Sam Lord]

Not surprised at all, those folks just keep hitting it out of the park. Thanks for the report.

[mourip]

Unfortunately I've hit a snag with the Bifrost Multibit: I can't get the latest C-Media drivers for Win 10 to install.

 

When I run the Setup program, it asks me to connect the device; however when I do this, (i.e. switch it on), it doesn't recognized it and asks me repeatedly to connect, then finally quits. If the Bifrost is already on when I run Setup I get the same result.

 

Foobar2000 recognizes the Bifrost without the new driver, but the available drivers, viz. DS, WASAPI, and Generic ASIO, report that the device does support high-resolution and won't my play hi-rez files.

 

Any suggestions on how to get the lasted driver installed?

 

I just bought an Yggy and had a similar issue with my Windows 2012r2 system. As suggested by Schiit Support I had to go to Device Manager, find the DAC which had a yellow arrow on it, go into the advanced properties tab and point to the location of the new 8.1 driver install directory. This got me WASPAPI and Direct Sound choices in JRMC. Unfortunately WASAPI is not supported in AO Core Mode yet but the good news is that the Yggy sounds wonderful right out of the box in GUI mode. I wanted to use ASIO but the Schiit ASIO install errors out in Windows 2012. I may try ASIO4ALL when I get a chance.

 

It really surprises me that there is not more discussion of the Yggy on CA. I think that once it breaks in it may trump my Vega. I guess that the lack of native DSD keeps some folks from considering it. Frankly I feel that well done PCM is just as enjoyable and there are a million recordings to choose from.

 

Looking forward to seeing more feedback and traffic here on the Schiit multi-bit products...

 

Best,

 

Paul

 

PS. Both the Vega and the Yggy surpass my previous Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSDse which seems clinical and uninvolving in comparison.

[Melvin]

It really surprises me that there is not more discussion of the Yggy on CA. I think that once it breaks in it may trump my Vega. I guess that the lack of native DSD keeps some folks from considering it. Frankly I feel that well done PCM is just as enjoyable and there are a million recordings to choose from.

 

Looking forward to seeing more feedback and traffic here on the Schiit multi-bit products...

 

I'm surprised as well. I suppose we all come at this hobby from different angles and the prevailing wind for many here is a numbers game extraordinaire (Octa DSD, Double DXD, PCM 768). I get it. I purchased my Chord DAC hoping to future-proof a bit, however, my interest was always to maximize my CD rips and 16/44.1 downloads. I've not been disappointed with my choices, the Bifrost MB upgrade being the latest.

 

PS. Both the Vega and the Yggy surpass my previous Wyred4Sound DAC2 DSDse which seems clinical and uninvolving in comparison.

 

This says volumes. Congrats on your acquisition. I hope to one day have the pleasure of hearing one.

 

Maybe someone should start a new Schiit Multibit thread where all iterations are welcome to post

 

Peace.

[maximum kahuna]

Took my uber-Bifrost out of my SB Touch system and sent it off to Schiit for the multibit upgrade. One day turnaround, too bad it takes three days for FedEx to get it each way between Illinois and California. Last night we're eating dinner and my wife, who has no interest in the minutiae of good audio and usually just humors me when I ask her how the music sounds, asks what's up with the music. She says it sounds "tinny and flat." I try using the SBT dac, various settings on my Yamaha with its dac and it sounds really ordinary. The soundstage has collapsed and there's no punch.It's funny how jaded we get listening to our system over time. Now that's it's out of the system, I really appreciate the sound of the Bifrost! It's no longer an inexpensive dac but boy does my system sound flat without it! I can't wait to get it back in there.

 

So here's the latest update. I got my BiMBy back along with a usb install as well. So I swapped out my upstairs Bifrost into my SB Touch system in the family room. My wife's happy again. Full sound and punch back in the Touch system. The Multibit Bifrost aka BiMBy is upstairs with the tube amp and the Zu Omens and headphones. Had some trouble loading the driver. I had to load the alternate driver; but after following the instructions on the Schiit website, it finally loaded. Problem is it won't play nice with my Uptone Regen. Tried rebooting a couple of times which is what I had to do to get the Regen to work with my other Bifrost. Still my computer doesn't recognize the Schiit usb Gen 2 driver when the Regen is in the line. Take the Regen out and everything is great. I have to go back and reread the instructions for the Regen. I'll play with it this week end. For now the BiMBy is burning in with the headphones. First impression of the BiMBy is an improvement over the uber-Bifrost. Not dramatic but noticeable right off the bat. Not a big surprise but it seemed that the better the source, the "more better" it sounds. HiRes files have noticeably more air or space around the instruments and a more defined sound stage,if that makes any sense. 320kps files less so. I know it's not an earth shaking discovery that better sources sound better, but the level of improvement seems to me to be greater the better the source file.

All in all for the first hour of play I'm a happy camper. Next step is to make my wife unhappy again and pull my original uber-Bifrost out and send it back for the Multibit upgrade too.

[Feanor]

After about 30 hours of listening I can affirm that my expectation for the Bifrost Multibit have been met or exceeded.

 

Early reviews of Schiit's top of the line Yggdrasil DAC indicated that this DAC was exceptionally revealing. In accord with that, if not not necessarily to the same degree as the much pricier model, the Bifrost Multibit is certainly a most revealing, precise, and detailed in the best sense, DAC.

 

I don't often listen to my small Jazz collection but I did tonight, including a 24/192 version of Miles Davis' Kind of Blue album from HD Tracks. I was struck by how the characteristics of individual instruments were remarkably well define beyond anything I'd heard. Instruments were precisely and stably placed n the soundstage and well separated from each other. The soundstage itself was wide and deep but not necessarily to an unprecedented degree. The microdynamic potential of the recordings seemed totally achieved; percussion if all types and the betimes piercing sound of brass instruments was very intense. Jaw-dropping for me was the reproduction of cymbals, (an instrument that can sound dull and defuse on recordings); emphatically their distinctive crisp, shimmering sound was far more realistic that I've heard heretofore.

 

I can very strongly recommend that anybody looking for a DAC under $1k give the Bifrost Multibit a through check-out. Mind you, it isn't necessarily for everyone. The powerful dynamics and relentless differentiation of instruments precludes any description along the lines "warm", "mellow", or maybe to some, "musical". Conceivably on entry-level systems it might sound bright or dry, but these terms don't apply on my system I'm glad to say.

[pawsman]

I've been listening to my Bimby for about 1 1/2 weeks now, and I've found a few CDs where the Mega Combo Burrito filter really made a huge difference. Two are Reference Recordings CDs: Arnold overtures RR-48CD. You know the cliché about a soundstage spread out in front of the listening room; with this CD it's really there, in the middle of the Sussex Overture where you have separate instruments answering each other, you can pick out the individual instruments that pop out of the sonic fabric with great depth and dimensionality. The spatial cues are amazing. Also, RR 47CD, Robert Farnon's music is very good. One of the Classics Film Scores Series that RCA did: Sunset Boulevard (CD 0708-2-RG) is recorded in Dolby Surround. The spatial cues on that one are very nice as well-

 

pawsman

[maximum kahuna]

A week or so into my Bimby and I am really digging the sound. I think I'm off the upgrade merry-go-round (for now)! I continue to be amazed about how much better the better sources sound. The better the source, the greater the improvement. One thing about it. I'm not sure if it is the blacker background noise or what, but when changing resolutions the relay clicking is more noticeable. Not a big deal for me but I didn't hear it as much, if at all, with my uber; but now it is definitely there now.

[Feanor]

A week or so into my Bimby and I am really digging the sound. I think I'm off the upgrade merry-go-round (for now)! I continue to be amazed about how much better the better sources sound. The better the source, the greater the improvement. One thing about it. I'm not sure if it is the blacker background noise or what, but when changing resolutions the relay clicking is more noticeable. Not a big deal for me but I didn't hear it as much, if at all, with my uber; but now it is definitely there now.

 

Yes, I agree: the better the recording, the greater the improvement, especially for 16/44.1.

 

This is not to say that there isn't improvement across the board, only that the Bimby really separates the sheep from the goats when it come to recording quality.

[mrvco]

I haven't had a chance to order my upgrade yet, but are the MB driver issues limited to Windows machines? Also, has anyone seen a site comparing the BiMBy with the GuMBy yet?

[Melvin]

I haven't had a chance to order my upgrade yet, but are the MB driver issues limited to Windows machines? Also, has anyone seen a site comparing the BiMBy with the GuMBy yet?

 

A nice post and comparison (from a couple of weeks ago): http://www.head-fi.org/t/781268/the-diyrs-cookbook/30#post_12032482

[holzmann]

I posted this on the other forum but will include here as well:

 

I had the chance to audition the BMB, GMB, and YGB about a week ago. The B and G were both SE. Otherwise similar source and setup all around. I found the differences between the B and G to be less discernable esp. given the price difference. But the YGB was a revelation to my ears. Loved it. So if your needs are just SE, either go for the best value DAC around arguably with the BMB or go big and go home with the Yiggy and never worry about a DAC purchase for a while.

[Feanor]

I posted this on the other forum but will include here as well:

 

I had the chance to audition the BMB, GMB, and YGB about a week ago. The B and G were both SE. Otherwise similar source and setup all around. I found the differences between the B and G to be less discernable esp. given the price difference. But the YGB was a revelation to my ears. Loved it. So if your needs are just SE, either go for the best value DAC around arguably with the BMB or go big and go home with the Yiggy and never worry about a DAC purchase for a while

.

 

This is a useful set of observations: thanks. Owning the Bifrost I was torn between a Multibit upgrade OR going to the Gungnir Multibit. I opted for the Bifrost upgrade largely for financial reasons, and it seems from you comments and others that this was a good choice. The vibe is that the Bimby and Gunby are virtually in distinguishable in SE mode.

 

In absolute terms the Bimby is a revelation for me, (having listened to primarily sub-$1k DACs). The level of realism is almost startling. I'm hearing instrument & voice timbres and decays as never before; instruments & voices are located in space in a palpable way. Microdynamics are great and combine with increased detail in such a way that cymbals and brass instruments just sound more real; in particular cymbals, notoriously difficult to reproduce sound more accurately accurate than heretofore. Soundstage is great but not some much in "depth", "width", or "height" as simply in realism.

[Carbo]

I just got mine today. I have it up a running using WASAPI, does it have AISO? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Would it make a difference? My old DAC (Micromega MyDac) had AISO and thats what I used. Both are installed on the same Surface 3 with Windows 10.

[Feanor]

I just got mine today. I have it up a running using WASAPI, does it have AISO? I can't seem to find it anywhere. Would it make a difference? My old DAC (Micromega MyDac) had AISO and thats what I used. Both are installed on the same Surface 3 with Windows 10.

 

I was told Schiit that they don't have a Win 10-compatible ASIO driver yet. However WASAPI works well and I doubt that ASIO would be all that significant improvement.

 

For that matter, I tried the ASIO driver that comes with my ASUS Essence STX sound card while using that card's S/PDIF output: there are significant sound glitches that sound a lot like good ol' vinyl clicks & pops. This isn't necessarily the fault of either ASIO or the Asus card; the ASUS S/PDIF output sounds fine using WASAPI.

[Sam Lord]

My Bimby gets back in a few days. It'll be fun to compare it with my Oppo105D and HQPlayer. I'll have to insert my Bel Canto Pre3 preamp with the Bimby, but that's fair given that a big feature of the Oppo is a very good Sabre volume control. I'll try a number of different settings and will try to remember to report, it will take a while!

[maximum kahuna]

I haven't had a chance to order my upgrade yet, but are the MB driver issues limited to Windows machines? Also, has anyone seen a site comparing the BiMBy with the GuMBy yet?

 

I can't speake to driver issues on a mac. My laptop's Windows 7. My driver issues were mostly self-inflicted. Once I read the directions on the Schiit website, the alternate driver loaded without any problem. Got my Regen to work with it also. In my haste to get my Bimby hooked up, I loaded the driver with the Regen out of the loop. When I plugged it back in it, no music. I had to leave the Regen plugged in and reload the driver, then viola! all is good.

[maximum kahuna]

deleted duplicate post

[aamer23]

I just wonder percentage of Bifrost sales have included the Uber upgrade since its introduction. My guess would be that the MB upgrade for the Bifrost will be $250 off-the-shelf and $300 after the fact. The interesting part will be how an Uber+MB Bifrost compares to the base Gungnir model.

 

 

for me the MB Vs SD MB wins, however if MB's is poor then the SQ will not be correct. I have now gone from Bifrost to Brifrost Uber to Bifrom MB and without question the Schiit implementation for MB is correct therefore, BiMB will kill SD DACs IMO I have also heard the Yggy and the difference between yggy and BiMB on SE was small however on balanced Yggy killed the BiMB. this is what i heard it is subjective to the system, system set up, source and mains issues and whether i have any ability to hear correctly. If money is not an issue then get the yggy it is the zenith for MB DAC implementation particularly if you need balance if you need SE then BiMB is more than good enough and if you need balanced and you do not wish to spend for a Yggy then Gungnir is a really good option. these opinions are subject to change without prior notice above all all three are fantastic just enjoy listening and forget the tech

[aamer23]

Another post from Baldr on head-fi:

 

Heard Yggy and Bimby (not Gumby) at RMAF and was very impressed with both. I was listening with (unfamiliar) headphones, and for a relatively short time, so I can't really give any sort of thorough report. I do know that both my wife and I listened to multiple tracks, and only reluctantly stopped in order to give others a chance. My guess is that those who purchase either will be very happy, particularly at the price points at which these DACs are being offered.

 

HA! I'm partial to BiMBo to be honest.

 

I received my Multibit upgraded Bifrost today and, after letting it play all afternoon, I can report that the change has resulted in PHENOMENAL improvement to SQ that was already pretty good. I was one of the first to buy the Bifrost, and I was happy to make the Uber upgrade a couple of years later, but allow me to say none of that could have prepared me for the sound coming out of that box right now. Every element of the sound I listen for has been enhanced. Imaging, soundstage width, depth and height, transients, PRAT, timbral fidelity, all are hugely improved. I feel like I bought a new DAC. While I let the thing burn in all afternoon, I was in my office and more than once the sound escaping my living room tricked me with that "live music in another room" sound. Listening this evening to recordings I am intimately familiar with is just enhancing the experience all the more. The CSO/Muti live recording of Prokofiev Romeo & Juliet sounds even more like my memory of actually being there when that concert was recorded. Well, I guess it is apparent I like the Multibit upgrade to my Bifrost. Going to go now and listen and enjoy.

 

Some tech info Jason posted on another forum:

 

"Some fun facts about the AD5547CRUZ DAC used in Bifrost Multibit (for super techies only):

 

1. It features an integral nonlinearity plot that's better than +/-0.5LSB. This is a spec they never even bother doing for audio DACs, because (a) it would be terrifying in the case of audio multibit DACs and (b) it is not possible to measure delta-sigma DACs in this way, since the output depends on the preceding and following samples.

 

2. The THD performance is actually scary good--far better than 16 bits. 16 bit level THD, from a theoretically perfect 16-bit DAC, is -96dB. Most 16 bit DACs from the Jurassic Age of Digital didn't hit this number. The AD5547 is -104dB, much better than 16 bit--and its noise level is down at the 22 bit level. And this is without the deglitching tricks applied to Gungnir Multibit and Yggdrasil.

 

3. It is a parallel input DAC. As in, the entire 16-bit word has to be written in at once, on 16 separate pins. This is very bizarre, since most DACs are serial in. Just one way that these are NOT easy to use for audio."

 

My Bifrost Multibit upgrade arrived yesterday. By now it's been switch on for >24 hours continuously and has been playing for abut 6 hours.

 

My main impression at this point is that it delivers a significantly, (not to say gigantic), better resolution improvement. This translates into not just more "detail", but more spatial information, firmer imaging, more define instrument decays, and sweetness in the mid-range and highs.

 

Configuration: FLAC or ALAC on external drive => Win 10 running Foobar2000 => Wyrd => Bifrost Multibit => ARC LS9 => Pass Labs X150.5 => Magneplanar MG 1.6QR plus PSP Subsonic 5 sub.

 

Hi Palomino,

 

I wanted a bit more time with the upgraded Bifrost before I get into comparisons but I'll share a bit.

 

The 3 DACs I have in current rotation are of different design philosophies and price points. Frankly, I enjoy each of them. The Bifrost is, of course, the least expensive. Is the lowly Bifrost a giant-slaying-Chord-killer? No, but it's not embarrassed either. The Bifrost Multibit is one very enjoyable DAC. It presents plenty of detail with no fatigue. This is a must-have upgrade IMO. If it were my only DAC, I would be happy and content.

 

More interesting to me is a comparison to my Tranquility DAC (16/44.1-48, NOS variety based around the TDA1543). I'm still assessing but suffice it to say I'm again impressed with the Bifrost. BTW, the Tranquility, which is known for its liquid midrange, was also significantly more expensive. Fun.

 

OK, so far I haven't been able to install the new Gen 2 Win 10 driver, however I have been able to hi-rez and good results in general using WASAPI (event) in Foobar2000.

 

Seems the no-hi-rez problem was caused by an Audio Quest Jitterbug in line with the Wyrd + Bifrost. When I removed the Jitterbug, Foobar was able to recognize the Bifrost as able to hi-rez. The Bifrost is the second device I have found won't work properly fed via Jitterbug; another DAC wasn't recognized with the Jitterbug in-line -- don't assume a Jitterbug is your friend.

 

As far as I'm concerned a driver is an integral part of the product; if it doesn't work, the product is defective. Nick at Schiit has suggested that I remove the installed drive and then run Setup, connecting the Bifrost when total to connect: I did this but Setup still failed recognized the device.

 

Nick also recommend that I try the Gen 3, (Yggdrasil), driver which I will do next. Schiit's instructions call for a USB cable of 2 meters or shorter; unfortunately I have to use a 15 foot cable, so that might be part of the problem

 

I reiterate that I have good results using WASAPI (event) in Foobar, sans the Jitterbug. This stage of burn-in, (~12 hours play time), I get noticeably (if not hugely) better air, separation, instrument decays, and mid-range sweetness. Also, I seem to get better deep bass. On the downside, brass instruments sound a little too bright and forward.

also the there can usb port sensitivities so just using different usb ports could solve the issue i have found in the past on windows