Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm probably missing something here, but wouldn't all 192khz DACs be considered NOS with a 192khz input? Yes, I believe you are correct (although I could be missing something too!). Link to comment
jiminlogansquare Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Hi Jim .. no, it's one or the other: "All existing Bifrosts can be upgraded to Bifrost Multibit for $250. The process requires firmware changes, so the Bifrost will have to be sent to Schiit or an authorized service center for the upgrade. All existing Bifrosts can also be upgraded to the new AK4490 Bifrost from $70." Melvin, thanks. Nick at Schiit also confirmed that it is one or the other. He added that the AK4490 upgrade is inferior to the multibit upgrade. And so I purchased the multibit yesterday. And I agree, it is great how Schiit has kept its promise regarding upgrades for the Bifrost. Link to comment
mrvco Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Yes, I believe you are correct (although I could be missing something too!). You can't be too careful w/ the boys at Schiit -- My Audio System Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Another post from Baldr on head-fi: A few clarifications and amplifications re Bifrost Multibit DAC (Bimby). The DAC is indeed a four year old 16 bit converter which for the glib, may not be exicting. Those with the patience to study (yes, study) the datasheet will be exited when they realize the performance meets/exceeds that of many competing 18 bit dac chips. The mega combo burrito time and frequency domain filter is also implemented in a SHARC chip identical to its bigger brothers Gumby and Yggy. This permits the perception of the spatial cues uniquely proper to the Schiit filter. The filter is identical to its bigger brothers' with just one exception: the output rate on the Bimbo is limited to 192KHz rather than 384KHz. Since the filter is cascaded, the required taps halve to 9000. The reason the unit must be returned to Schiit for upgrade is that the control microprocessor's flash memory must be reprogrammed. I am proud of its price/performance ratio as a multibit D/A converter for $600.00. I have been listening to one at my workstation for the last several months and find it quite satisfying. Enjoy! Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Melvin, thanks. Nick at Schiit also confirmed that it is one or the other. He added that the AK4490 upgrade is inferior to the multibit upgrade. And so I purchased the multibit yesterday. And I agree, it is great how Schiit has kept its promise regarding upgrades for the Bifrost. Glad you got confirmation from the source. I hope you will share your impressions when the time comes. Cheers. Link to comment
Jud Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm probably missing something here, but wouldn't all 192khz DACs be considered NOS with a 192khz input? No. This is an excellent feature. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 No. This is an excellent feature. Jud .. would you mind elaborating a bit? Link to comment
firedog Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 I'm probably missing something here, but wouldn't all 192khz DACs be considered NOS with a 192khz input? Not at all. Most modern DACs take all PCM - including 192 - and convert it to a type of Delta Sigma Modulation inside the DAC chip, and then back to 352 or 384k PCM (all internal) and then to analog with filtering applied. This is true even if you don't have up/oversampling turned on. Basically all DACs except those specifically claimed to be NOS, few exceptions. This architecture is much cheaper than building a NOS DAC (you don't need multiple chips) and for that reason is used in about 99% of modern DACs Jud has posted extensively about this on the forum, you can probably find one of his cogent descriptions if you do a search. That's why Schiit makes a big deal about their "Multibit" DACs that are true NOS, even for hi-res material. Main listening (small home office): Main setup: Surge protector +_iFi AC iPurifiers >Isol-8 Mini sub Axis Power Conditioning+Isolation>QuietPC Low Noise Server>Roon (Audiolense DRC)>Stack Audio Link II>Kii Control>Kii Three >GIK Room Treatments. Secondary Path: Server with Audiolense RC>RPi4 or analog>Cayin iDAC6 MKII (tube mode) (XLR)>Kii Three . Bedroom: SBTouch to Cambridge Soundworks Desktop Setup. Living Room/Kitchen: Ropieee (RPi3b+ with touchscreen) + Schiit Modi3E to a pair of Morel Hogtalare. All absolute statements about audio are false Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thanks firedog! As nasty as this forum has become in recent months, it's nice to know we still have members here who are patient and willing to help. Link to comment
Jud Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Jud .. would you mind elaborating a bit? Most DACs with 176.4/192 inputs oversample to 352.8/384 internally, then delta-sigma modulate to 2.8 or 5.6MHz or higher before converting to analog. The Bimby skips these steps and sends the input as is to analog conversion. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thank you Jud. Curious if you know what happens with 44.1 to 96 in this particular DAC. Oversampled to 176.4/192 with no filtering applied? Link to comment
Jud Posted October 3, 2015 Share Posted October 3, 2015 Thank you Jud. Curious if you know what happens with 44.1 to 96 in this particular DAC. Oversampled to 176.4/192 with no filtering applied? It's a slightly less computation intensive version of the filtering used in the Yggy and Gumby. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 3, 2015 Author Share Posted October 3, 2015 It's a slightly less computation intensive version of the filtering used in the Yggy and Gumby. Ahh .. The filter is identical to its bigger brothers' with just one exception: the output rate on the Bimbo is limited to 192KHz rather than 384KHz. Since the filter is cascaded, the required taps halve to 9000. I feel somewhat dense today. Link to comment
mrvco Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Thanks firedog! As nasty as this forum has become in recent months, it's nice to know we still have members here who are patient and willing to help. ditto, thanks Firedog. -- My Audio System Link to comment
mrvco Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Most DACs with 176.4/192 inputs oversample to 352.8/384 internally, then delta-sigma modulate to 2.8 or 5.6MHz or higher before converting to analog. The Bimby skips these steps and sends the input as is to analog conversion. got it, thanks Jud -- My Audio System Link to comment
Jud Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Heard Yggy and Bimby (not Gumby) at RMAF and was very impressed with both. I was listening with (unfamiliar) headphones, and for a relatively short time, so I can't really give any sort of thorough report. I do know that both my wife and I listened to multiple tracks, and only reluctantly stopped in order to give others a chance. My guess is that those who purchase either will be very happy, particularly at the price points at which these DACs are being offered. One never knows, do one? - Fats Waller The fairest thing we can experience is the mysterious. It is the fundamental emotion which stands at the cradle of true art and true science. - Einstein Computer, Audirvana -> optical to EtherREGEN -> microRendu -> ISO Regen -> iFi NEO iDSD DAC -> Apollon Audio 1ET400A Mini (Purifi based) -> Vandersteen 3A Signature. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 4, 2015 Author Share Posted October 4, 2015 Heard Yggy and Bimby (not Gumby) at RMAF and was very impressed with both. I was listening with (unfamiliar) headphones, and for a relatively short time, so I can't really give any sort of thorough report. I do know that both my wife and I listened to multiple tracks, and only reluctantly stopped in order to give others a chance. My guess is that those who purchase either will be very happy, particularly at the price points at which these DACs are being offered. This is welcome news nonetheless Jud. IIRC you once owned a 1st gen Bifrost giving you a certain perspective I very much appreciate. Link to comment
Feanor Posted October 4, 2015 Share Posted October 4, 2015 Heard Yggy and Bimby (not Gumby) at RMAF and was very impressed with both. I was listening with (unfamiliar) headphones, and for a relatively short time, so I can't really give any sort of thorough report. I do know that both my wife and I listened to multiple tracks, and only reluctantly stopped in order to give others a chance. My guess is that those who purchase either will be very happy, particularly at the price points at which these DACs are being offered. Thanks for this info, Jud. Yesterday I ordered the Bifrost Multibit upgrade for my Uber-equipt Bifrost. I've always been very impressed with the Bifrost over any similarly priced DAC; the Uber upgrade was a positive, though not huge, improvement over the base Bifrost. The $250 Multibit upgrade seems like a no-brainer. But we note, of course, that one must pay shipping one-way as well. In my case I'll have to pay taxes and brokerage too when it comes back to Canada. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Got the "time to ship" email and my Uber is now in route to the Upgrade Dudes of Schitt. I'm excited to hear what BiMBy can do. Link to comment
mrvco Posted October 6, 2015 Share Posted October 6, 2015 Got the "time to ship" email and my Uber is now in route to the Upgrade Dudes of Schitt. I'm excited to hear what BiMBy can do. Did they say how quick the turnaround would be? I just ordered a new DAC that isn't made by Schiit and once it shows up I'll get on the MB upgrade list for my Bifrost Uber. -- My Audio System Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 6, 2015 Author Share Posted October 6, 2015 Did they say how quick the turnaround would be? I just ordered a new DAC that isn't made by Schiit and once it shows up I'll get on the MB upgrade list for my Bifrost Uber. No. I ordered the upgrade on Saturday and was 16th in the queue. Got the email to ship today which I thought was pretty quick. I assume (perhaps wrongly) they don't work weekends. Link to comment
crazychile Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 I didn't decide on doing the Bifrost upgrade until this Monday, because I had planned on moving up to the Gumby. I think I was something like 42 in the queue on Monday, last night I checked and I was 12. So they appear to be moving through these pretty quickly. Link to comment
Feanor Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Thanks for this info, Jud. Yesterday I ordered the Bifrost Multibit upgrade for my Uber-equipt Bifrost. I've always been very impressed with the Bifrost over any similarly priced DAC; the Uber upgrade was a positive, though not huge, improvement over the base Bifrost. The $250 Multibit upgrade seems like a no-brainer. But we note, of course, that one must pay shipping one-way as well. In my case I'll have to pay taxes and brokerage too when it comes back to Canada. I got my 'good to go' email yesterday after only three days and shipped this morning. Turnaround time will be longer for me on account of being in Canada. Link to comment
Melvin Posted October 7, 2015 Author Share Posted October 7, 2015 They do seem to be moving along quickly. I bet they were well prepared for the onslaught. I hate waiting and my unit won't even arrive in Valencia until Monday. Patience is not my strong suit. Link to comment
Feanor Posted October 7, 2015 Share Posted October 7, 2015 Should the Bifrost Multibit be called the Byby? Link to comment
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