Regen?

[Jamesroy]

OK so Jud since it seems to be resolved that the high end harshness (not too harse) is due to my pre amp, and it was very clear without it just lost the punch. Then buying the REGEN and taking back out the pre amp would the REGEN put that punch back in? I'm kinda ready to order it since one of my freelance customers from doing a graphic design job for him paid me 200.00. Check out my site Graphic Design/Photography |

[DEANO2]

How many hour's on the ifi, James. And what USB cable are you using ?

 

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[Jud]

OK so Jud since it seems to be resolved that the high end harshness (not too harse) is due to my pre amp, and it was very clear without it just lost the punch. Then buying the REGEN and taking back out the pre amp would the REGEN put that punch back in? I'm kinda ready to order it since one of my freelance customers from doing a graphic design job for him paid me 200.00. Check out my site Graphic Design/Photography |

 

I wouldn't call it "punch," I'd call it clarity and musicality (what I hear with the Regen, in general terms). So it's an improvement but not an automatic fix for anything that ails the system. Getting the system to work with the room is far more important, which is exactly why I recommended the book.

[Jamesroy]

Good news in about a year I may be moving to Colorado Springs and the houses there have basements, not found in New Mexico. No Vaulted ceilings in a base meant no hard wood floors in a basement but carpet a normal 9ft ceiling so I'm looking forward to it. Reason for the move is for my grand children better schools for special Needs kids better Doctors. the fly in the ointment is if my son in law can capture a good job there. Back to technology. If my pre amp may be causing the loss of clarity ( and I agree with your definition) then wouldn't it be great if the REGEN could go between the Preamp and Poweramp? I think I'm going to order it while I have the extra cash. My ifi DAC lost power today because I have it usb into MacBook which is plugged into the power strip. But when I'm done listening I turn the power strip off. So no current except what was stored in the Macbook battery went to the dac. So now I guess I need to leave the power strip on, so if I do that even if I shut down the Mac will the ifi still be charging? I'm not sure. I'll photograph my room and you'll see why the book wouldn't help.

[DEANO2]

Try putting one under the ifi (paperback) and get it off the glass shelf. Might improve clarity. The regen is a USB device mate goes at the the end of your cable and plugs into your DAC.

 

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[Jamesroy]

Ya I know the REGEN connections it was just a creative thought. Under my ifi the cables are so tight and short I had to put double face adhisive velcro on the class and bottom of if or else it would be just hanging there in the air between glass shelves and preamp. But if you think it would make a difference...

[DEANO2]

Okay try Blu Tack under your DAC then sticky and absorbs vibration's as well.

 

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[Man in a van]

Hmm,

 

I beg to differ with some of your theory on volume controls, and for the record it is not an attenuater, but it does attenuate. An attenuater starts at 100% fully CCW and reduces output as it is turned CW. Just the opposite of an volume/gain control.

 

It is unlikely that the Nano is actually a pre amp, but it is possible. Many inexpensive DACs have a volume potentiometer (volume control- VC) on their output, and people call it a pre amp. 'Taint so. A true pre amp will typically nestle that VC between amplifier stages, whereby allowing it's use with fewer deleterious effects by not allowing that VC to be part of the output circuit. Enough history, off my soapbox...

 

I mention all of this, because that B&K may have tons of gain. I tried to find the specs, but I am not sure if they are correct. It stated 63mV in ( I assume it is 630mV=.63V) and 8v out. I looked up the Nano, and it said about 1.5V out. I do not know the input for the amp, but .63V>8V is a lot of gain, and there may be an over driving situation within the Preamp.

 

My first try would be to set the pre amp at 0db, and adjust the Nano to give you the loudest you would ever want, and then use the pre's VC, leaving the Nano alone. This may still have too much gain, if so, place the dial on the Nano at 12:00. Lastly, have you tried digital volume control to see what it does? I have seen player programs that have computer VC slider that goes past 100%, which is essentially digital gain which sounds awful to my ears.

 

 

 

I sent iFi-Audio an e-mail (perhaps what the OP should have done) their reply in blue

 

Dear Ronald,

 

Thanks for your enquiry.

 

> When using the nano with a pre-amp what is the recommended position fo the dac volume control?

 

- If using another pre-amp then we recommend to have the volume max on the iDSD nano to bypass to your pre-amp.

- The iDSD nano is also a pre-amp, full volume to bypass otherwise adjusting the volume makes it become a pre-amp.

 

 

> Is the volume controls used as an attenuator or is it an active driven device?

 

- There is a stepped attenuator used in the nano iDSD. PDF can highlight more information.

We hope this helps and any further questions please don't hesitate to ask.

 

Thanks.

______________________________

[Jud]

The OP has already tried what iFi recommended and got harsh sound, so unfortunately no go.

 

The book helps in any number of ways; room arrangements are only some of the over 200 possible suggestions. It really is quite valuable, or at least I thought so.

[Man in a van]

The OP has already tried what iFi recommended and got harsh sound, so unfortunately no go.

 

 

 

 

I just caught up with the thread.

 

I have used the Nano quite a bit and would not say that it sounds "harsh", or in anyway disagreeable.

 

Before I realised the pre and power should match with regard to impedance I was going to suggest 14db attenuators on the power amp inputs (with the nano volume to 100% to allow pass through) but I guess that is sort of out of the question.

 

I hesitate to suggest that the Jamesroy checks the nano firmware/driver situation as I know there have been some recent upgrades.

 

 

Ronnie.

[Jamesroy]

Thanks Man in a Van but Apple doesn't need firmware for this product, i Think?

[Man in a van]

Thanks Man in a Van but Apple doesn't need firmware for this product, i Think?

 

 

was thinking more about the nano

 

nano iDSD – Firmware | iFi Audio

 

hope this link works lol

 

but only do it if you are comfortable/think it necessary

[Jamesroy]

Thanks

[4est]

I would agree that the Nano is not harsh, and why I have been thinking that he is over driving the the pre circuits or some other simple analog issue. It may be the room, or that he has some damaged drivers that so not show until turned up a bit. Hard telling from here without more experimentation and information.

I just caught up with the thread.

 

I have used the Nano quite a bit and would not say that it sounds "harsh", or in anyway disagreeable.

 

Before I realised the pre and power should match with regard to impedance I was going to suggest 14db attenuators on the power amp inputs (with the nano volume to 100% to allow pass through) but I guess that is sort of out of the question.

 

I hesitate to suggest that the Jamesroy checks the nano firmware/driver situation as I know there have been some recent upgrades.

 

 

Ronnie.

[Jamesroy]

OK Boss should I do this firmware upgrade?

nano iDSD – Firmware | iFi Audio

[Jud]

OK Boss should I do this firmware upgrade?

nano iDSD – Firmware | iFi Audio

 

Sure. You can't beat free.

[Jud]

I would agree that the Nano is not harsh, and why I have been thinking that he is over driving the the pre circuits or some other simple analog issue. It may be the room, or that he has some damaged drivers that so not show until turned up a bit. Hard telling from here without more experimentation and information.

 

Yep. Another reason why I suggested Jim Smith's book. It really goes through all the various parts of the system thoroughly and logically, which hopefully would allow Jim to eventually get to the source of the problem.

[DEANO2]

Hi Jud, I have that book and The complete guide to hi-end audio and they are very useful. Hopefully James will give it a read.

 

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[Jamesroy]

Thanks for being so concerned Jud. One of the reasons ( and I have heard of the book in the past) is because my room has a vaulted ceiling and until I accept the fact that one of the very important things I need to do on the walls over 10ft up is put sound absorbing panels, thats just the walls and what about the ceiling itself. And the shape of my room is faceted on one side is a slight 30 degree angle with a fireplace and the other speaker side has a short hall way to my exterior door. And directly behind the sofa I set on is an open kitchen but to show you I care I will buy the book now from amazon, I just may get surprised.

[Jud]

You don't need to show me anything, Jim. Buy it if you want some ideas on how to improve some of the things you've talked about.

 

(Buy it from Jim's site rather than Amazon. Better deal for you and him. Get the book with DVDs if you do buy it - that includes video demonstrations.)

[Daudio]

... my room has a vaulted ceiling and until I accept the fact that one of the very important things I need to do on the walls over 10ft up is put sound absorbing panels, thats just the walls and what about the ceiling itself. And the shape of my room is faceted on one side is a slight 30 degree angle with a fireplace and the other speaker side has a short hall way to my exterior door. And directly behind the sofa I set on is an open kitchen ...

 

Odd shaped and sized listening environments don't have to be automatically thought to have acoustic problems. More complex and asymmetrical shaped acoustical spaces can be beneficial too, spreading nodes out into flatter, smaller distribution. I would be more concerned about the balance of hard and soft surfaces in the listening area.

 

To try to do targeted room treatment, you'd need to get measurements of the rooms response, to know what treatments were necessary. That's getting pretty hard core for you at this stage, I think. So look into how you can add soft, absorbing stuff like rugs, fabrics, and sofas. Furniture, sculpture, plants reflect and diffuse sound. Add and move stuff till you find a nice balance.

[Jamesroy]

Thanks for the book buying tip. Good news for me. I upgraded the firmware. Mine was something like 4.2 and there are two new ones 5.0 and 5.0A. I did the up grade and then listened and everything din't sound bad but very good so I gave it the acid test but cranking up the nano to 100% and naturally bringing down the B&K preamp. Smooth as silk no harseness. Now It could be the up grade or maybe the nano is starting to break in. I've been playing testing quit a bit in last 3 days. But I have one CD "Surprise" Paul Simon and the first cut always gave me mid high harness but now not there. I don't know but sounds better. I think I'll order the REGEN monday unless you have some tech reason why I shouldn't. I mean from the very beginning on this forum when I found out about the REGEN I had this worry that my system was just not powerful enough to hear a change. Most of you guys have some very nice systems. Years ago I had two MUSE separates and a Goldentube Pre amp but wanted a more powerful power amp. So thats when the B&K came in.

[DEANO2]

That's great news. Order it, you won't be sorry. And anyway it'll take a little while to get to you so you can further burn your dac in. (Still try a little Blu Tack under it if you can)

 

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[Jud]

That's great news. Order it, you won't be sorry. And anyway it'll take a little while to get to you so you can further burn your dac in. (Still try a little Blu Tack under it if you can)

 

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+1 on the good news, and on not being sorry about getting the Regen. (But get Jim's book anyway. )

[Jamesroy]

Thanks for all the help so far. Hope it don't rain too much for you in Pa.