IDAGIO - For Classical Music Lovers

[rodrigaj]

I don't know if this has been posted yet:

 

IDAGIO - Welcome to Classical Music

[qdwieertteyrujpo]

Currently sitting in NY. Just downloaded it on both iPhone and iPad: looks very good, but doesn't play:-)

[qdwieertteyrujpo]

Addition: due to copyright issues, repertoire not available in the US and Canada (FAQ). So, I'll try again back in Switzerland.

[woodford]

Addition: due to copyright issues, repertoire not available in the US and Canada (FAQ). So, I'll try again back in Switzerland.

 

ironic, given one of their partners is the Cleveland Orchestra.

[rodrigaj]

Too bad it is not available in the USA. I did sign up for their newsletter though.

[rodrigaj]

I just received an email that IDAGIO is available in the USA. It appears that streaming is at 320kbps and redbook levels are at a premium price. BT, Airplay, Chromecast only.

 

Here is the link to the technical aspects of the service:

 

http://support.idagio.com/technical-questions

[Bob Stern]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:01 AM, rodrigaj said:

It appears that streaming is at 320kbps and redbook levels are at a premium price.

 

I haven’t started the 14-day trial yet, but their FAQ only reveals one tier, 10€/month.  I just emailed them to request clarification of the word "from" on this page:

https://support.idagio.com/general-questions/how-much-does-idagio-cost

 

 

On 10/1/2018 at 9:01 AM, rodrigaj said:

BT, Airplay, Chromecast only.

 

They have Mac and Windows desktop apps here:

https://www.idagio.com/download

[rodrigaj]

12 minutes ago, Bob Stern said:

 

They have Mac and Windows desktop apps here:

https://www.idagio.com/download

 

Yes but BT, Airplay, or Chromcast is the only way to get it to my main system. I don't have a computer in my listening room. Perhaps I missed something, but I was hoping for something like Spotify Connect.

 

[Bob Stern]

On 10/1/2018 at 9:01 AM, rodrigaj said:

It appears that streaming is at 320kbps and redbook levels are at a premium price.

 

I just exchanged emails with Lukas, one of the two customer service reps who authored some of the FAQ articles.  He clarified that the advertised 10€/month subscription includes all quality levels, including lossless redbook streaming.  There is no premium or higher cost plan.

 

There is an annual subscription rate that's cheaper than the advertised monthly rate, but he didn’t tell me what the annual rate was.  He said the annual rate was not available yet for iOS.

[Musicophile]

5 hours ago, Bob Stern said:

 

I just exchanged emails with Lukas, one of the two customer service reps who authored some of the FAQ articles.  He clarified that the advertised 10€/month subscription includes all quality levels, including lossless redbook streaming.  There is no premium or higher cost plan.

 

There is an annual subscription rate that's cheaper than the advertised monthly rate, but he didn’t tell me what the annual rate was.  He said the annual rate was not available yet for iOS.

10€ for lossless would be a great deal. Would have to see how extensive their catalog is but worth keeping an eye one it. 

 

That said, for a regular purchaser of high res material like me the Qobuz Sublime offer with the massive discounts on purchases still probably comes cheaper in spite of the higher monthly (or actually annual) cost. 

 

Plus I get Jazz (and all other genres) as well. 

[rodrigaj]

I agree on Qobuz Sublime. Plus with integration in A+, Lumin App, you can't beat it.

 

Here in the USA, we're still waiting on Qobuz. Promises, of sorts, were made for this weekend's RMAF introduction but that does not appear to be taking place.

[Bob Stern]

Idagio may have a much more extensive selection of classical recordings than Qobuz.

 

As a quick test, I searched for Brahms op 51 on both platforms.

 

Qobuz UK returned 17 albums:  12 albums with both op 51 quartets, 3 with only op 51/1, and 2 with only op 52/2.

 

Idagio returned recordings of op 51/1 by 31 different ensembles, and op 51/2 by 28 ensembles.  Here's a list of their op 51/1 recordings:

[Musicophile]

On 10/6/2018 at 11:09 AM, Bob Stern said:

Idagio may have a much more extensive selection of classical recordings than Qobuz.

 

As a quick test, I searched for Brahms op 51 on both platforms.

 

Qobuz UK returned 17 albums:  12 albums with both op 51 quartets, 3 with only op 51/1, and 2 with only op 52/2.

 

Idagio returned recordings of op 51/1 by 31 different ensembles, and op 51/2 by 28 ensembles.  Here's a list of their op 51/1 recordings:

It may simply be that Idagio is better st tagging, especially the opus numbers are not always given. 

 

That said better tagging in itself is a major competitive advantage in classical music. If Idagio really got this right, that may be an incentive to switch.

[mkozlows]

On 10/5/2018 at 4:51 AM, Bob Stern said:

 

I just exchanged emails with Lukas, one of the two customer service reps who authored some of the FAQ articles.  He clarified that the advertised 10€/month subscription includes all quality levels, including lossless redbook streaming.  There is no premium or higher cost plan.

 

That might be true in Europe, but in the US, there's a $9.99/month plan at 320kbps, and a $14.99 plan for FLAC.

 

If you listen to a lot of classical music, though, I really recommend at least giving it a look-see. (You can do a free 1-day trial without even entering in your credit card info; there's apparently a 14-day free trial after that, that does require a credit card, and then you have to cancel it if you don't want it. But the 1-day thing is zero-hassle, just requires downloading the app.)

 

The lossless is great (and there'd be no point considering a niche service that didn't have lossless), but what really makes the service is how well organized the UI is for classical. It has "compositions" and "performances" as a fundamental first-level concept, and that just completely changes the game for finding things. Searching for "Tchaikovsky Symphony," instead of giving you a zillion albums back (or, even worse, 10 zillion randomly-ordered tracks), gives you back a short list of compositions. And when you go into a composition, you can see the conductor/ensemble/date for it (and soloist and instrument where applicable).

 

$15/month for an add-on service is a steep ask, but Idagio is just really solid for classical. (Being in the US, I can't compare it to Qobuz, so no idea how that stacks up.)

[Musicophile]

2 hours ago, mkozlows said:

 

 

$15/month for an add-on service is a steep ask, but Idagio is just really solid for classical. (Being in the US, I can't compare it to Qobuz, so no idea how that stacks up.)

Tagging isn't one of Qobuz particular strengths, which is weird given how much emphasis they put on classical music.

 

You get a lot of curated content and text, but tagging is a bit of a mess. You'll better off searching for quatuor, quartet and Quartett if you're looking for e,g. a particular Beethoven string quartet and you want to be sure to find all versions. 

 

What's good about Qobuz is the fact that you have other genres as well, I'm quite into Jazz too so I'd feel limited by a classical only streaming service.

 

That said, I'm still intrigued by the concept of Idagio, given that I spend probably months tagging my own large library and really see the benefit of it. 

[mkozlows]

20 minutes ago, Musicophile said:

What's good about Qobuz is the fact that you have other genres as well, I'm quite into Jazz too so I'd feel limited by a classical only streaming service.

 

Yeah, I'm treating Idagio as an add-on service rather than a thing that will replace Google Music for me. Google Music still gets me the casual "hey google play whatever" stuff with the Google Home speakers, the Android Auto integration for when I'm driving, the wide selection of pop music. And meanwhile, Idagio gets me the audiophile sound quality, curation, and great UX for classical. It's kind of the same way I have Filmstruck for arthouse/classic movies and Netflix for other stuff.

 

Downside is, I'm paying $23/month for these two services (assuming I keep going past the trial period, which seems likely at the moment), but I guess that Qobuz's CD-quality service is $20, so this isn't really that much more -- and if Google Music is more convenient than Qobuz for casual use (which it almost certainly is, for someone like me who's got a lot of Google-ecosystem stuff around), and Idagio is better at classical (which it sounds like it might be), then that $3 premium seems totally reasonable.

 

(Also, they have an annual plan, which knocks a few bucks off the price; so that's a thing, too, if you're confident they'll last for a whole year.) 

[Bob Stern]

1 hour ago, mkozlows said:

I have Filmstruck for arthouse/classic movies and Netflix for other stuff.

 

I subscribed to Filmstruck for a few months about 2 years ago, but they had very few movies from the last 30 years.  Netflix DVD has been a much better source for recent "art house" movies.  Has Filmstruck added movies in the latter category that you specifically recommend?  A quick glance at the "newly added" section of their website is not encouraging.

 

(Apologies to the OP for veering egregiously OT.)

[rodrigaj]

No apologies necessary. Art house movies are of interest to me and I had never heard of Filmstruck. I usually get my movies from the local library system but people treat the DVD's so carelessly that I have been hunting for a streaming service. Netflix is great for what it is but limited.

 

Returning to Idagio, I can see myself keeping Spotify Premium / Connect for casual listening and Idagio for classical simply for the tagging value. Try searching for Mozart K504 on Spotify...what a mess. If Idagio can deal with that in a suitable manner I'm in.

 

Right now I'm trying to set aside a day when I can delve into Idagio uninterrupted.

[mkozlows]

6 hours ago, rodrigaj said:

Returning to Idagio, I can see myself keeping Spotify Premium / Connect for casual listening and Idagio for classical simply for the tagging value. Try searching for Mozart K504 on Spotify...what a mess. If Idagio can deal with that in a suitable manner I'm in.

 

Searching for "Mozart K504" doesn't work well, but "Mozart KV 504" returns that composition as its top result (followed by a bunch of CDs that will presumably have it somewhere in their track listing). If you click on that composition, you get a list of the performances, filterable by composer and ensemble.

 

 

Also, re the price, I was both right and wrong earlier: The $9.99/$14.99 split is what you get if you use the Android app, but on the web, you can subscribe to lossless quality for $9.99 straight-up. It sounds like they're moving in the direction of the Android-style pricing, but for the moment at least, you can still subscribe at the cheaper price via the web (which the support person I reached out to even suggested). 

[rodrigaj]

@mkozlows That Mozart KV 504 search looks awesome. Thank you for doing that.

 

If you sign up via the web for the lower red book price, you still can access the service via an iOS app or Android app? Correct?

 

My plan is to dust off my Airport Express, sign on to Idagio and Airplay via toslink. My only regret is that I sold my W4S Remedy Reclocker when I gave up my subscription to the BPO Digital Concert Hall.  Toslink sounded very good with the Remedy.

 

Just thought of this...I can also try the Shareport emulator on my uRendu. I forgot this comes with the SonicOrbiter OS. Hopefully tomorrow I can set aside some time for this.

[rodrigaj]

I signed up for the 14 day free trial and have been playing around with the desktop app and the iOS app. My playback is via Airplay to the uRendu Shareport app. I was able to listen for 4 hours without any skips, stops or stutters.

 

For me, Idagio is a keeper. Well worth the $10 per month for redbook access. If you are a classical music lover and have been frustrated by searches on other streaming services, you owe it to yourself to try Idagio. The effort that has gone into tagging their classical library leaves nothing wanting. Every possible combination of correlatable tags is presented in a manner that is intuitive.

 

Having said that, there are a few quirks:

1. Album artwork does not always "travel" with tracks. So for example, using Mozart KV504 will yield complete "recordings" by conductor, ensemble, etc... but they will all have a generic picture of Mozart as the artwork.
2. Nomenclature is odd. A complete symphony will be called a "recording". Albums can be "albums" or they can be "curated lists". For example, Tetzlaff's recent J.S. Bach Sonatas & Partitas (Odine) is saved as a "curated list" while Hahn's recent J.S. Bach's (Decca) is saved under "albums". Both travel with the album cover art.
3. There is no queue that I have been able to find. Tap on a track and the "curated list" or "album" begins to play. The track that is playing is not highlighted, Idagio has a small bar indicator along the left side that moves down the list as tracks are sequenced. It's not obvious at all.
4. The playback bar is white. But in the ios app the "album" playback screen is also white. Near the end of the track the playback bar tends to disappear. There was no way of changing the gui skin that I could find. Tapping on the horizontal bar along the bottom brings up the track, cover art and playback bar with a colored background that fixes this, but this is not an obvious alternative view. 

Once you begin to understand the logic of Idagio's system all of the pieces fall into place and you are left marveling at the tagging effort which makes comparative assessment of your favorite composers by your favorite ensembles and conductors an absolute breeze.

 

And...sound quality is outstanding. What's not to like - a few quirks but overall a fine effort.

[rodrigaj]

I sent IDAGIO a link to this thread. This is the reply I received:

 

Hi there,

thanks so much for giving IDAGIO a try and for your extensive feedback.
We highly appreciate your input and agree that your suggestions are important in order to improve IDAGIO.
Just some feedback on the points you mention:

1. Many of the tracks in our catalogue are currently connected to recordings. Since a recording might not have been released as an album necessarily, there are no artworks related to recordings. We are planning to integrate albums better in the future though and hope to be able to relate more tracks to albums and therefore also artworks.
2. Albums appearing as playlists is indeed pretty confusing - I guess that you mainly see this on the Discover page, which is simply a technical thing that our backend team is trying to solve at the moment. We hope to be able to streamline this in the near future.
3. You are right, a queue or waitlist has not been developed yet. However it is definitely plan to add this to our service in the future and I have marked your interest in this, so we can get back to you once we have more news about it.
4. I have passed this on to our iOS developers since it sounds like a bug or error in our app design. Thank you for sharing this with us!

I hope those answers give you some ideas on what to expect from IDAGIO in the future. If you have any further ideas, questions or feedback, feel free to get in touch with us anytime.

Happy listening and best regards
Lukas

[nbpf]

1 hour ago, rodrigaj said:

I sent IDAGIO a link to this thread. This is the reply I received:

 

Hi there,

thanks so much for giving IDAGIO a try and for your extensive feedback.
We highly appreciate your input and agree that your suggestions are important in order to improve IDAGIO.
Just some feedback on the points you mention:

1. Many of the tracks in our catalogue are currently connected to recordings. Since a recording might not have been released as an album necessarily, there are no artworks related to recordings. We are planning to integrate albums better in the future though and hope to be able to relate more tracks to albums and therefore also artworks.
2. Albums appearing as playlists is indeed pretty confusing - I guess that you mainly see this on the Discover page, which is simply a technical thing that our backend team is trying to solve at the moment. We hope to be able to streamline this in the near future.
3. You are right, a queue or waitlist has not been developed yet. However it is definitely plan to add this to our service in the future and I have marked your interest in this, so we can get back to you once we have more news about it.
4. I have passed this on to our iOS developers since it sounds like a bug or error in our app design. Thank you for sharing this with us!

I hope those answers give you some ideas on what to expect from IDAGIO in the future. If you have any further ideas, questions or feedback, feel free to get in touch with us anytime.

Happy listening and best regards
Lukas

Thanks, that's very encouraging! After one year, I have cancelled my subscription to Qobuz (no replies to bug reports, absent technical service, ...) and I would not mind subscribing to Idagio but I still do not see obvious means of streaming Idagio contents to my renderers. I rely on upmpdcli as a renderer and on BubbleUPnP as a control point. I have sent the  BubbleUPnP developer a feature request for an Idagio interface (the app offers interfaces to Qobuz, Tidal, etc.) but I doubt that this will happen without some proactive support from Idagio. I could probably connect the optical S/PDIF output of a Chromecast Audio to my DAC but I am not sure this is a high quality solution. I guess I should try. Anyway, kudos to Idagio for what they have achieved in the last year. That was a huge step forwards!

[rodrigaj]

@nbpf 

I agree that connectivity is a challenge with IDAGIO - the only renderer they offer turnkey connectivity with is Sonos.

 

Fortunately, I live in a MAC ecosystem and my ultraRendu offers the Shareport emulator as part of the SonicOrbiter OS, so Airplay was an option.

 

Perhaps a reclocker would work for your optical SPDIF Chromcast solution? I could recommend the W4S Remedy reclocker. I used one for two years prior to the uR with an Airport Express Toslink connection and foolishly sold it. W4S will sometimes sell them as B stock. Otherwise the Remedy is $$$ at $400.

 

My ideal integration would be with Audirvana A+. @damien78 offers integration with Tidal and Qobuz and integration with IDAGIO would be awesome.

[Hugo9000]

Well, I downloaded the app, and made an account from within it.  Without giving a credit card, it limits me to their basic lossy format, and won't even play an entire track, just previews.  That's not useful at all for a 24-hr preview of their service, in my book.  Also, Spotify has a lot more of the content that I'm interested in checking out for future purchases (that's mainly how I use streaming, to find things that are worth buying on CD or SACD).

 

So, I guess I'll revisit them in a while to see if things have changed.  Back to my own physical media again haha