Optical Network Configurations

[giordy60]

I do not have the problem of multiport, I have a static IP and MAC NAA and I removed the switch

[jabbr]

I do not have the problem of multiport, I have a static IP and MAC NAA and I removed the switch

 

There are those who consider "multiport" a feature as opposed to a "problem". That's why there are so many products because people implement intercomputer communications in different ways. There is also the idea that precisely reclocking the communications signals may actually improve the SQ. Paul Pang tells me that he is looking into modifying the above switch with TCXO clock. I suppose you could also do that for your FMC but not cost effective. In any case my advice generally is to use a switch.

[Forehaven]

100mb may be fine for data transfer, the reason to go with 1Gb on new purchases is that 1Gb is more compatible with other equipment if/when you decide to use a switch etc.

 

I have this on the way: 8/9 ports Gigabit Ethernet Optical Fiber Switch with eight SFP ports-in Network Switches from Computer & Office on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group and so you see that LPS powerable, optical switch is very cost effective. I am pretty sure that this is the OEM version of the Diablo switch that people have had great results with.

 

 

I've read thru both network isol threads. Complicated, but damn interesting guys! Jabbr, that alibaba switch looks to be the 18198, not the 18196. Great price too. I'll try this out in time.

 

Today is my bday, and I'm getting the new Mini today. So I need to get this setup. I've got the Synology in an adjacent room, I'm not exactly sure what will be the best setup to use a min usb and FW/thunderbolt cables from Mini to iFi Micro and MH LIO 8'respectfully.

 

Slow, but steady progress lol

[ted_b]

Jabbr, that alibaba switch looks to be the 18198, not the 18196. Great price too. I'll try this out in time.

 

Happy Birthday!

 

The Diablo switches labeled 18195, 18196 and 18198 are all the same. The differences are simply with accessories (the 95 and 96 give you one single mode or multimode SFP to start with).

[giordy60]

...In any case my advice generally is to use a switch.

 

I personally see a switch with an additional electrical component that can interfere electrically on the digital signal path.

if you do not need not be installed if you have multiple devices to be connected, then one can not do without and should be used.

(Imho)

[alan_un]

I am using a fibre optic connection between Control PC and Audio PC for about a year and it sounds really good.

I equipped two of my PCs with Startech PCIe Fibre Optic Ethernet cards. My Audio PC also uses an Adnaco extensions with fibre optic connections between the Adnaco backplane and the Audio PC.

The Adnaco extension is housing my RME AES HDSPe card, which is externally clocked by the same clock that also clocks my DAC.

This has a very positive effect on the sound, which is clear and crisp and with loads of details.

As to single mode or multimode fibre optic connection, my experience is that single mode sound slightly better than multimode connections.

I am using these adapters:

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

which require transceivers

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

which I can highly recommend for a fibre optic network connection between Control PC and Audio PC.

[tgb]

So, I listened to my system with both the TP Link 5412F as optical switch, then with the Diablo 18198 (powered by the iFi linear power wallwart that comes with the iUSB...not the iPower). In both my system and sig8's the Diablo won. It is a smidgen cleaner, and has slighlty better bass impact (again, this is all weird to be "listening" to an optical switch). It even seems to add a little gain to the system (don't ask me how, but Ashok and I both heard it). He postulates that the Diablo is a winner, not only because of the ability to power it externally (with linear or battery, etc. 5V-12V)

Hi ted_b,

i received the TP-SG5412F today.

I haven't received the SFP yet, thus I tried to use it as a standart switch on RJ45 ports:

- with my couple of MC110CS to feed my streamer

- then : NAS & router (router gives the wifi for the UPNP upnp app) plugged on the switch on the RJ45 ports.

final setup if to receive the 1Gb SFPs for the switch, to link it to NAS & router via fiber, instead of RJ45.

 

1st feedback I had : slightly more harsch, but aboce all a wider spectrum (escpecially high frequencies, no lack on low frequencies).

The setup was : downstream FMC on battery, not the upstream FMC (the one plugged on the switch).

 

Thus, I powered BOTH FMCs on the battery => no more harshness !?!?

More detailed without harshness. a bit bizarre because on my previous setup based on only 2 FMCs b4 the streamer, only the downstream FMC needed really battery, the upstream FMC took no advantage of being powered by a battery...

Anyway, bizarre but nice !

 

when you tested the SF5412F & Diablo :

- both were burnt ?

- if you used 2 FMCs (cause 100Mb compliance), both were powered by battery, or only the downstream one ?

 

Questions that I can't answer this evening :

- if the SQ is more analogic with the upstream FMC on battery :

does the switch pollute this upstream FMC ?

or the switch need some burning (no burning before testing, cold & straight from delivery) ?

or the switch enable to get a clearer SQ, then the way you power the upstream FMC becomes critical ?

 

Anyhow, this switch, on the RJ45 ports sounds nicer than my basic router/switch provided by my internet provider. That's already a good point, although at TP-SSG5412F price I was not expected something worse of course.

I hope to received the SFP soon to test the fiber link between router & NAS to the switch, and see it there is a improvement.

In the next 48hours I'll see if the switch needed some burning.

 

Testing session : more to come ;-)

Rgds

[Forehaven]

Happy Birthday!

 

The Diablo switches labeled 18195, 18196 and 18198 are all the same. The differences are simply with accessories (the 95 and 96 give you one single mode or multimode SFP to start with).

 

Thank You Ted! I appreciate it. And interesting, then you can get away with the basic switch since you're buying the SFPs separately anyway. I'll get there I'm sure lol

 

Stayed up late tonight, listening thru the new Mini, (i5 256ssd 16G Ram), for tonight, wireless access, to Synology NAS, JRiver playing ISOs (Norah Jones, Glenn Gould Bach and some Dire Straits) thru my Emotiva XMC1 in 2.0 analog. Wow, the convenience factor is immense, and sounds not bad. Not the best I've heard, but nothing is tweaked and I need an Ethernet connection. I'm quite pleased though with my progress and, knock on wood head, my rudimentary skill of sitting this all up properly so far.

 

Sorry for the digress guys, back to topic, I'm amazed at being able to do this for ? $100-300. What an 'audio bargain' lol But boy, those LC-LC Corning cables sure do look strange lol. I look forward to this project, and alternative/LPS power sorts. Cool stuff guys.

[jabbr]

I am using a fibre optic connection between Control PC and Audio PC for about a year and it sounds really good.

I equipped two of my PCs with Startech PCIe Fibre Optic Ethernet cards. My Audio PC also uses an Adnaco extensions with fibre optic connections between the Adnaco backplane and the Audio PC.

The Adnaco extension is housing my RME AES HDSPe card, which is externally clocked by the same clock that also clocks my DAC.

This has a very positive effect on the sound, which is clear and crisp and with loads of details.

As to single mode or multimode fibre optic connection, my experience is that single mode sound slightly better than multimode connections.

I am using these adapters:

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

which require transceivers

 

http://www.amazon.co...d=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

which I can highly recommend for a fibre optic network connection between Control PC and Audio PC.

 

Nice setup! The links to your transceivers got cutoff -- which do you use?

[alan_un]

Woops, sorry for that. I use these StarTech transceivers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BUBW2SQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

I tried Finisar transceivers before, which I use in the Adnaco cards and backplanes, but they did not work

[Ben-M]

Woops, sorry for that. I use these StarTech transceivers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BUBW2SQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

I tried Finisar transceivers before, which I use in the Adnaco cards and backplanes, but they did not work

 

That makes 2 knocks against the Finisars for compatibility now. Ted's issues were very thankfully relived by their removal. I was following that one and really wondering what the problem might have been, so I happy to see that solution.

 

I'm eyeing the Diablo switch, thanks Ted for pointing out that all the models are actually the same base, but I also want backwards compatibility for 100base connections. I don't have anything that would need it right now and I don't see myself ever opting for a Sonore Signature Rendu due to the price, though I'm totally pro HDMI-I2S, but I don't want to leave myself high and dry. Is there anything else with dc input and similar features?

 

And on a sidenote, I've got 2 of Paul Pang's TCXO mobo clock upgrade kits, but I've recently remembered I switched mobos after vetting the combo and now discovered my new mobo clocks are of the easy to solder, lovely to work with 2x2.5mm variety, which are totally compatible with my 2x $120 kits...

 

Of course I'm kidding and I'm basically up shit creek on that one. BUT, since there's now talk of those same 25mHz clocks working in one of these switches, then maybe they're back in play ;-)

[jabbr]

Exactly. Regarding Finisar -- they OEM for Intel as does Avago so I expect they are a good company. Need to check specific model numbers. It can be hard to know why a certain SFP doesn't work with a card or switch. For my Intel cards I use the specific models of SFP that Intel has tested as known good (published). These could be either the Intel labelled SFP (made by Finisar) or the same OEM Finisar model number-- likewise for Avago. For my Brocade switch I only use name brand Brocade or Brocade compatible SFPs etc.

[jabbr]

Woops, sorry for that. I use these StarTech transceivers:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/aw/d/B00BUBW2SQ/ref=ox_sc_saved_image_2?ie=UTF8&psc=1&smid=ATVPDKIKX0DER

 

I tried Finisar transceivers before, which I use in the Adnaco cards and backplanes, but they did not work

 

$75 for a 1000base-LX is on the pricey side -- that's what I pay for name brand 10Gbase-LR on eBay. You can get good LX for $8 -- roughly twice the $$ as SX. LX is single mode and SX is multimode -- for long runs LX is better (and thus has more expensive optics) whether you can hear a difference with short runs probably depends on having golden ears and an otherwise optimized system.

I generally advise starting with SX to see if you hear a difference to start with and then upgrade just the SFPs and cable to singlemode if desired.

[tgb]

Hello Ted_b,

I'm quite amazed about the improvement of the TP-SG5412F after nearly 24hours burning... I didn't received the SFPs yet thus I use it through the RJ45 like a basic switch (my bridge with 2 MC110CS placed b4 the streamer), BUT this switch is definiitly not a basic one : background is deeeeeep... instruments & voices are so distinct from each other... amazing !

I bought it on sales at 150eur. The previous optical tweak with my 2 MC110CS cost me roughtly the same with the battery. I would say that the improvement brought by this switch is at least equal to the improvement by FMCs, not less for sure.

 

Well, Ted,

When you tested the SG5412F, did you link it to the ground ?

I linked it to the ground, and it is quite interesting to see that this leads to absolutly no leakage current or EMI, at all : from the SG5412F but on the RJ45 cables coming from NAS & router as well (NAS & router are on SMPS, thus generate EMI that were detected easily on my previous setup with the SG5412F.

I guess the fact that there is no leakage current helps the SQ.

Testing & learning still going on !

Rgds

 

PS : thanks to you Jabbr for opening that thread. I thought "2 FMCs & a fiber cleans eveything, we can't get more about SQ, optical network is more complicated more expensive & won't bring much more that my 2 FMCs for its price" <= WRONG ! ;-)

[tgb]

hi,

I needed at least 24h to burn the TP-SG5412F.

I received today the SFPs, they are burning.

Does anyone have an idea of the time required to burn brand new SFPs ?

(already it sounds like this idea of optical network is a major tweak for hifi... Thanks to Eurodriver and Jabbr ted_b sig8 and others ;-) )

Rgds

[gldgate]

We have another optical convert. Got my gear in this morning from Amazon and inserted it into my system as follows:

 

Control PC -Ethernet Cable (Blue Jeans 6a) - Ethernet Switch (Netgear GS108T) - FMC (TP Link MC220L Single Mode with TP Link TL-SM311LS SFP) - Optical cable (Monoprice SM LC/LC) - FMC - Ethernet Cable - Audio PC

 

Sound with optical bridge increases clarity/blackness. Guessing that this is because the Netgear switch is "noisy". Result is similar to when I put CAPS OS SSD on battery power. Have optical switch on order - putting NAS gear (Synology, Qnap) on similar bridge.

 

Thanks all for this wonderful thread. I've been lurking for a while but thought I'd post my initial impressions.

[YashN]

Getting more fiber in our musical diets is very good for, er, um, reducing noise? Sorry...analogy got too weird.

 

Could have been even weirder if you had written 'anal...ogy'!

[tgb]

hi Gldgate,

which optical switch did you order ?

I'm listening to music through TRLink SG5412F... amazed how much it can bring?

You listen a song : voice & instruments are so distinct & clear, you can focus on drums, voice(s), bass, guitar, violins etc... without any cognitive effort.

To me, it is a "special" experience.

If you like legato effect, tubes like etc... forget, : you are "live" with the performers (10 steps more than before, Sting was not there tonight... a pity...).

 

FYI,

I plugged on the switch yesteday : at least 24h required to burn it.

I inserted the SFPs 9hours ago now, it sounds OK. The burning of brand new SFPs seems to be way shorter than a brand new switch..

Rgds

[gldgate]

Hi tgb:

 

I ordered this one that jabbr brought to our attention that looks very similar to the Diablo 18198. The price was too good to pass up.

 

8/9 ports Gigabit Ethernet Optical Fiber Switch with eight SFP ports-in Network Switches from Computer & Office on Aliexpress.com | Alibaba Group

 

Glad you are enjoying your TP-link switch and resulting SQ. Can't wait for mine to arrive.

[tgb]

Hi gldgate,

ted_b saif the SG5412F was very close to the Diablo... I found my switch at 150eur, compared to the Diablo at 300USD... I saw that news regarding that chinese copy of the Diablo at 150USD after I bought mine... Anyhow, I don't think I would have bought this chinese copy, lack of confidence maybe... :-)

 

Anyhow, 2 tests coming in a few days (maybe next weekend):

- FMCs placed before the NAS & the router are powered now by their SMPS, I'll power them on a power bank to see if it brings something

- I ordered the FMC Jabbr mentioned : TRENDnet | Products | TFC-1000MGA | 100/1000BASE-T to SFP Media Converter

Right now, I link my streamer (100Mb interface) to the SG5412F with 2 TPLinks MC110CS, thus plugged on a RJ45 port on the switch. In that setup, as I said before, both FMC require clean power (power bank), because when the FMC on switch side is powered by its SMPS it sounds harsh.

I'll see if it sound different with this TrendNet FMC before the streamer, FMC linked to the switch on a 1Gb SFP port. This FMC will be powered by a power bank. Is it better to link the switch to the streamer using SFP port rather RJ45 switch port ? Does this TrendNet manage auto-negotiation 100<>1Gb better than the SG5412F thru its RJ45 port ? I don't know, I'll test.

Rgds

 

PS : I created a thread on the french audiophile forum related to this crazy "optical network" => Réseau Optique : Musique dématérialisée

The "basic optical bridge" story led to quite a lot of implementations during spring. We'll see if the optical network gets a similar success ;-)

[gldgate]

tgb:

 

I actually have a pair of the Trendnet FMC's. After I put in an optical bridge from switch to Audio PC I added another (using the Trendnet's) connecting NAS device to switch. While the SQ improvement with the first optical bridge was very noticeable, I did not notice much difference with the second. I am using stock power supplies and battery power is coming so I will withhold final judgement. The explanation could be as simple as the first optical bridge is optimally placed into the Audio PC and that any additional bridge prior to that is essentially redundant.

 

I also have a Paul Pang Audio switch coming in shortly. I will be able to compare my existing ethernet switch to the PPA with and without optical bridges. I will also run some additional comparisons once my optical switch comes in. Fun stuff.

 

Keep us informed on your tests.

[jabbr]

Just a reminder for folks trying to connect older 100 mb Ethernet devices through FMCs:

 

Even though we have recommended the TP-link 220L FMC because of price ($25) it only works with 1 gb Ethernet connections. The Trendnet TFC-1000MGA works with both 100mb and 1Gb Ethernet connections (RJ-45) and its $40 on Amazon. If you aren't sure what you have it is a safer bet.

 

My $114 Chinese switch is on the boat so more to come when it arrives. At this price I'm tempted to re clock it with TCXO:)

[jabbr]

The PPA switch is interesting but only 100 mb. A reason I think adding a TXCO clock might provide a benefit us that the optical switch seems to respond to vibration isolation.

[tgb]

Just a reminder for folks trying to connect older 100 mb Ethernet devices through FMCs:

The Trendnet TFC-1000MGA works with both 100mb and 1Gb Ethernet connections (RJ-45) and its $40 on Amazon.

Hi Jabbr,

I did some tests this week with my SG5412F.

I have a streamer with 100Mb interface, thus as the SG5412F has only 1Gb SFP ports, I used the RJ45 port (able to auto-negotiate 100/1000) to link the SG5412F to the streamer with a simple optiical bridge (2 MC100CS).

When you plug a FMC on the RJ45 port, it sounds lightly harsh when the FMC is powered by battery, ; it soudns very harsh when FMC is powered by SMSP.

Thus for audio usage : SG5412F seems to sounds very nicely, but without any device plugged on its RJ45 ports.

I'll received the TrendNet today and test it.

If you say it does its job perfectly that's really a bloody good news !

I should close my testing session of the SG5412F this weekend.

Rgds

 

EDIT : any device plugged on the RJ45 ports seems to pollute the switch, leading to harsh sound.

By coonecting devices only on the SFP ports it is OK.

This issue should be the same on the Diablo. Ted_b, did you face that issue with tour Rendu plugged on the RJ45 port of the Diablo ?

[tgb]

... the optical switch seems to respond to vibration isolation.

Hi Jabbr,

could you please tell us more about it ?

Thks