NAD M12 - released

[Shortcuttomonctonthe]

My dad just took delivery of an M12 a few days ago. So far he is very pleased with it. He is planning to use it with the upcoming BluOS module. He talked to NAD and they said November would be the expected availability. Interestingly he is using the SOtM mini-server with the NAD's USB input and it works flawlessly. Initial reactions are very favorable, unfortunately his previous setup was with a relatively inexpensive Wyred 4 Sound dac so no real comparisons yet. He is very happy with it so far though. It is also replacing an Audio Research LS-25 preamp which he is planning to reinsert and see if he likes it better with or wihtout the tube preamp.

Many thanks for the update. Have not seen any other reviews yet but I am excited to hear 1) if sound quality has improved in any way over the M51, which is already quite good; and 2) how good the phono stage is.

[firedog]

The lack of DSD support on it somewhat puzzling. After all, the NAD does the conversion of PCM-to-PWM, so couldn't it do the same for DSD64/128/256fs?

 

AFAIK NAD hasn't supported DSD at all yet. Just seems like they are one of those companies that has decided it isn't necessary. At least for now.

[Fleshball]

How is the m17'? How is the dad and the room correction?

 

 

I currentlly have the m12... Which I love. I sent back my m51 for this I think dac is better, or something. With my nodded squeezebox it sounds great. I just also ordered a m27 also.

 

I'm not sure if the m17 has as good ofbe Dec in it though... But I am tempted to send back the m12 For the m17.. So I have a complete surround setup.

 

 

The only thing killing it for me is the lack of good room correction in the m17. Rightnow I pondering running the m12 into an athem 510 for arc correction.. and then into the m27. Simply getting a m17 would solve.all of this..

[Hiro]

AFAIK NAD hasn't supported DSD at all yet. Just seems like they are one of those companies that has decided it isn't necessary. At least for now.

 

For anyone who has DSD files on a hard drive, it's pretty necessary to have a DAC that can play them.

 

Also take note that although they haven't released a DSD-capable DAC yet, their DACs convert everything to PWM. And PWM doesn't have anything to do with PCM.

 

A PWM signal is a string of ones followed by a string of zeros; as some point out it's a special case of DSD/PDM.

[wappinghigh]

I assume you are wanting to output the front "pre outs" of an AVR to the analogue input of the M12 which would be at a fixed level - if so then certainly the C390DD can be setup this way and (AFAIK) it uses the same analogue input MDC board as the M12.

This is getting better and better, the more I read this thread..

 

With these BluOS cards and Bluesound ...Could NAD really be onto something here?? !!!

[Kelly]

This is getting better and better, the more I read this thread..

 

With these BluOS cards and Bluesound ...Could NAD really be onto something here?? !!!

 

Hopefully so. The BluOS card hasn't been released yet. I know someone with an m12 (and he is very happy with it, btw) and is anxiously awaiting the DD bluOS card (hopefully to be released in November.) By all accounts the bluesound/M50 interface is very nice to use.

[Shortcuttomonctonthe]

Considering it's the new replacement for an extremely well-regarded and popular DAC and it also attempts to address the coincident vinyl craze in a single box...I'm still surprised there's not a single online review available, two months after release.

 

 

Or have I missed something?!

[Kelly]

It's listed as one of the next to be reviewed by Srajan on 6moons. His might be the first.

[Kelly]

I got a chance to see and hear an M12 this last weekend. I didn't bring my M51 for a direct comparison, but it sounded to me like it is definitely a similar sound, but probably improved. I think that the USB input is quite good on it. The sources feeding it was a SOtM mini-server and a Squeezebox Touch through the coax input. I thought the SOtM was definitely better through the USB input. I didn't really compare it to anything else but I really liked what I heard. The owner is waiting on the BluOS networking card which is how he ultimately plans to use it.

 

The M12 is probably the most impressively built NAD component I have ever put my hands on. It is very solidly put together and build quality of the chasis looks like it is absolutely top notch.

[LaSeR]

I got a chance to see and hear an M12 this last weekend. I didn't bring my M51 for a direct comparison, but it sounded to me like it is definitely a similar sound, but probably improved. I think that the USB input is quite good on it. The sources feeding it was a SOtM mini-server and a Squeezebox Touch through the coax input. I thought the SOtM was definitely better through the USB input. I didn't really compare it to anything else but I really liked what I heard. The owner is waiting on the BluOS networking card which is how he ultimately plans to use it.

 

The M12 is probably the most impressively built NAD component I have ever put my hands on. It is very solidly put together and build quality of the chasis looks like it is absolutely top notch.

 

Already gave up on the qb9 dsd ?

[Kelly]

Already gave up on the qb9 dsd ?

 

No, my dad got the NAD M12. It replaced a cheaper dac and Audio Research LS-25 preamp. He used a Squeezebox Touch for years and finally wanted something better. He got the M12 and is intending to use with the BluOS card when it arrives. I don't think this Ayre will be leaving anytime soon.

[Kal Rubinson]

How is the m17'? How is the dad and the room correction?

 

M17/M27 review coming in January Stereophile.

[Foggie]

M17/M27 review coming in January Stereophile.

 

No M12? Or is that slated for later

[Mike Mcsweeney]

I think a DSD file through a $500 DAC will sound better than PCM through a $3500 DAC.

I would find it hard to believe anyone would buy a new dac these days that doesn't support 512 DSD...jmo

[Jonziebal]

I recently had a chance to briefly compare the M51 and the M12, one evening after hours in a Hifi store in Denmark. Quite interesting experience.

 

I only spent perhaps 1 hour to compare the two, so the variance of music etc. was minimal and the impressions remained only that - impressions.

 

I had no expectations to the differences between the two, or how they would behave sonically. My personal perception was that the M12 felt as having a higher resolution in its conversion compared to the M51. Whether specs will support this, I have no clue. The "air" around the notes (lets just call the significant sounds "notes") in the music was more pronounced with the M12 and the notes themselves were more sharply painted/defined than with the M51. This allowed me to feel that I had more "access" to the nature of those sounds in the music I was listening to.

 

Perhaps as a consequence, ambience in the sound stage was also easier to decipher, as the sounds it was made of were quite a lot clearer with the M12 than the M51.

 

The M51, by contrast was a tad warmer in its sound, seemed a bit "fuller" in its bass reproduction - while retaining very good definition of the notes. Simply not as defined as the M12. The ambience was harder to decipher, though. Not hard-hard, but still a win for the M12.

 

For lower quality music productions, the M51 was more pleasant to my ears than the M12, especially when played at very high volumes. The M51 did this very well in my opinion.

 

Both DAC's were really good, I think. Surprisingly good actually. What I haven't yet described as part of my impression is, that I also compared the two to another, very well known and often referenced DAC, which I have owned for years. They both faired really well - and both better overall - than that one, which I currently own. Meanwhile, I'm selling that one at the moment, so I'll only lift the veil on what that is, when I've sold it

 

I loved the clarity and brutal honesty of the M12 and really cherished the tad warmer sound of the M51, as it still retained much of the detail of the M12. I am strongly considering purchasing the M12. In addition to simply being an extremely forward-looking and upgrade-flexible piece of hardware, I think the sheer clarity and insight it provided will win the day for me.

 

However, I need to get back to the store at another point in time for some more in-depth listening. Especially when I've sold my current DAC and have the money to go forward. I'll report back to this thread upon doing so.

 

Best of days to all, Jon.

[Kal Rubinson]

No M12? Or is that slated for later

 

I do not know. I suspect that someone else will be doing it.

[wappinghigh]

I would consider buying one of these M12's If ONLY they had of got DSD in via DoP on the coax input (if the darn NAD engineers had of thought of this..)

 

Having this would have then prompted me to trial an upcoming MDC bluesound card: which would have then launched me into the whole "bluesound world" and probably I would have finally ditched Sonos and bought a 6 or 8 zone Bluesound set up as well: running DSD with a Sonore Rendu into the NAD M12 into my good gear in my main listening room and giving me the versatility of bluseound nodes everywhere else.. and the ability to then sync general listening back to this "NAD M12" based room for casual listening should I want it there..

 

Why the heck didn't the owners of NAD/Bluesound think of this?

 

I don't mind spending up big on hifi: but give me the TOTAL package..

 

edit.. I see it's got XLR inputs.. so maybe I could "double up" DACS..running a DSD DAC into these??

 

But kinda defeats the purpose doesn't it? Dig>analog>dig>back to analog again.....

 

I just don't get the hifi world right now.

 

Oh well

[mav52]

I wish other manufacturers would release some modular pre-amps and integrated amplifiers.

 

Build the amplifier which has technology which will not change in the next decade. Make sure it has a suitable power supply for not only itself but also an add-on and have a separate slot in module for DAC or streaming.

 

 

Vinnie Rossi is coming out with the LIO a modular system Vinnie Rossi Ultracapacitor-Powered, Modular Hi-Fi Systems should be interesting, you equip your system.

[wappinghigh]

^nice find..

[wappinghigh]

But back to the M12..

 

Why have this?

 

Why not just have a DSD Dac with volume control, like the Invicta or Benchmark and plug in a Bluesound node via toslink?

 

Philosophically, I seriously don't get this product (with it's bluesound MDC card) . Sorry. I want to because I like NAD gear. I really do..

[Audio_ELF]

But back to the M12..

 

Why have this?

 

Why not just have a DSD Dac with volume control, like the Invicta or Benchmark and plug in a Bluesound node via toslink?

 

Philosophically, I seriously don't get this product (with it's bluesound MDC card) . Sorry. I want to because I like NAD gear. I really do..

WAP ... I think you have to get over the DSD issue; or at least accept that not every manufacturer thinks the sun shines on DSD!

 

I'm not sure what you "don't get" about the M12 though ... surely its perfect in that it's a DAC which can be expanded with various options. Want a streamer, buy the correct card. Want to utilise a turntable, add the card for that.

 

Though like all HiFi products they get so close to perfection, then fall down...

[wappinghigh]

Sure. Fair enough about DSD..

 

what I don't get about the M12 is all the "in the digital domain" bit..

 

This:

 

"DirectDigital™ amplification offers the highest level of performance. The 35-bit data path with 24-bit coefficients and 62-bit accumulation, and dithered truncation back to 35-bits after DSP functions guarantee the overall 24-bit accuracy. With this degree of resolution, all preamp functions can be accomplished with a new level of precision, and all in the digital domain. This eliminates the noise and distortion prone to analogue circuits. Because of the super high resolution, even 24-bit files are processed without truncation or loss of information."

 

Aren't all DAC/pres in the "digital domain".. until the analog bit? You either control volume digitally or via an analog potentiometer...right.. or a combo like Steve Nugent was trying..

 

With the cards.. well that's just like adding a separate to a DAC..

 

Though I guess if it's "all in one" it's easier to control sources and output's though....it clearly has a lot of options!!! Maybe this product is pitched at the custom installer market..???

[Audio_ELF]

This:

"DirectDigital™ amplification offers the highest level of performance. The 35-bit data path with 24-bit coefficients and 62-bit accumulation, and dithered truncation back to 35-bits after DSP functions guarantee the overall 24-bit accuracy. With this degree of resolution, all preamp functions can be accomplished with a new level of precision, and all in the digital domain. This eliminates the noise and distortion prone to analogue circuits. Because of the super high resolution, even 24-bit files are processed without truncation or loss of information."

I think thats just marketing really! It makes more sense in the C390DD and M2 actually.

 

With the cards.. well that's just like adding a separate to a DAC..

But much neater and easier on the control side (for the end user). Personally I prefer the idea of card than having to add something like the Aries.

[wappinghigh]

^ yes. the product is starting to make sense to me now.. LOL!

[Audio_ELF]

^ yes. the product is starting to make sense to me now.. LOL!

Its a DAC (with no DSD capability) with the capability to be expanded. Thats all it is.

 

Does that help it make sense?

 

It makes as much sense as any DAC!