HQ Player

[Miska]

8 hours ago, Hammer said:

Hi, I seem to be having a similar problem having Roon connect to HQPlayer.  I'm getting a "Playback failed because Roon couldn't connect to HQPlayer."  HQPlayer is running on Windows 10 and because I have hyper-V enabled, there are two NIC's.  The hardware NIC and a virtual switch.  I have tried setting HQPlayer in Roon as localhost and by IP and Roon cannot see HQPlayer.

 

Any ideas on how to fix?  On this PC, I cannot disable any of the NIC's.

 

I've also tried disabling the firewall and that does not solve the issue.

 

HQPlayer playback works fine standalone, without Roon?

 

Are both HQPlayer and Roon on the same computer? If they are, is the DAC disabled in Roon Settings -> Audio (must be)?

 

HQPlayer has the network control button pressed?

 

Roon has correct IP address for HQPlayer, and firewall is not preventing incoming connection from Roon?

 

HQPlayer Client is able to connect to HQPlayer server?

[Miska]

8 hours ago, oldfirm said:

Serious question has to be asked - A PC rig with a Ryzen Threadripper 3990X cpu - Would this set up cope with the most extreme HQP settings without faltering? and is 64 cores a help or a hinderance in running HQP?

 

More of a hindrance because the clock clock rates are much slower on CPUs with less cores.

 

 

You need as many cores as possible without getting hit by limited clock rates. After that point the only suitable way to add more processing power is to add a powerful Nvidia GPU.

 

[copy_of_a]

2 hours ago, bogi said:

Thank you copy_of_a and Miska for your explanations! I am sorry I am still missing something. I found quite easily readable documentation about parametric eq:
https://mynewmicrophone.com/audio-shelving-eq-what-are-low-shelf-high-shelf-filters/
https://mynewmicrophone.com/the-complete-guide-to-parametric-equalization-eq/#Slope

They refer to two cut-off frequencies like on the below picture.

 

 

But both ways how you define the filter don't mention the upper cut-off frequency fH on the picture.

copy_of__a: 30Hz (HiShelf, 6db/oct, -0.3db)
Miska: iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2

It seems you refer the fL one. How is fH and thus the transition band witdh counted based on the remaining 2 filter parameters?
In the example copy_of_a provided every filter transition band width seems to be one octave and therefore he needed to stack about 10 filters to continuously cover the whole audio band. Miska stacks 3 filters. I did not find how is the the transition band width between cut-off frequencies counted.
Does slope have an effect to transition band width (between fL and fH)? I think not, I think slope affects only the overall filter bandwith - the ares before fL and afetr fH. It seems to me that only gain/attenuation affects the transition band width. What's the formula please?
In the '30Hz (HiShelf, 6db/oct, -0.3db)' case -0.3 dB attenuation is reached in transition band of 1 octave (for example between 30 and 60 Hz). 60Hz / 30 HZ = 2. How is the value of 2 (1 octave) counted from the attenuation -0.3 dB?
In the 'iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2' case -2 dB attenuation is reached in wider audio band. The next filter in the stack seems to be have fL=500 Hz. 500/50 = 10. How is the value of 10 counted from the attenuation -2 dB?

I think I didn't get anyhing you are asking ...

How filters work is based on how they are designed and implemented... so same values in 2 different paramatric EQs don't necessarily have the same outcome.

I can replicate Miskas 3-point 6db downward tilt with 3 curve points at 50Hz, 500Hz and 5kHz also with Crave EQ (which has no variable "slope" setting but of course the well known "Q" setting). Any somewhat variable parametric EQ can replicate this... but not necessarily with the same numerical values for "Q" (or "Slope").

 

 

 

Is it really essential to know every detail about the topic?

Miska said above the default filter design for the IRR plugin is 12db/octave.

With the slope set to 0.5 you get a 6db Slope (1st order).

With this setting you can cascade several filters the way I showed above.

The 10 1st order HiShelfs with -0.3db from above translate to -3db over the audible frequency range.

Should look like this (@Miska, please correct if I'm wrong):

iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,

… and so on.

If you want -6db overall (similar to the B&K room target curve) set the gain of each filter to -0.6db (10x 0.6 = 6).

 

The beauty with cascaded 1st order filters is the tilt will be really linear ("straight") and super transparent.

The downside is you have to enter 10 values. But of course you can store them in a text file for easy editing and copy them into HQPs filter tab.

In addition you can store different sets in the pipeline matrix of HQP which makes switching between different sets of settings really easy.

 

Hope that helps!

 

[Miska]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

Thank you copy_of_a and Miska for your explanations! I am sorry I am still missing something. I found quite easily readable documentation about parametric eq:
https://mynewmicrophone.com/audio-shelving-eq-what-are-low-shelf-high-shelf-filters/
https://mynewmicrophone.com/the-complete-guide-to-parametric-equalization-eq/#Slope

They refer to two cut-off frequencies like on the below picture.

 

 

But both ways how you define the filter don't mention the upper cut-off frequency fH on the picture.

copy_of__a: 30Hz (HiShelf, 6db/oct, -0.3db)
Miska: iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2

It seems you refer the fL one. How is fH and thus the transition band witdh counted based on the remaining 2 filter parameters?

 

The picture there is not a shelving EQ but two filters, high and low-pass ones. But you have the transition mid-point frequency and then slope factor, which essentially specifies distance between fL and fH. This is similar to Q factor which also defines slope width, but is usually used for peaking EQs and such. There you also have the peak (mid) frequency and then width of the peak.

 

[bogi]

@oldfirmI just observed your picture is showing running Roon in upper left  corner. Better to show that Control Panel while playing some track in HQPlayer and with Roon not running. That would indicate, if HQPlayer uses the installed SMSL driver.

[Miska]

8 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

Miska said above the default filter design for the IRR plugin is 12db/octave.

With the slope set to 0.5 you get a 6db Slope (1st order).

With this setting you can cascade several filters the way I showed above.

The 10 1st order HiShelfs with -0.3db translate to -3db over the audible frequency range.

Sholud look like this (@Miska, please correct if I'm wrong):

iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,

… and so on.

If you want -6db overall (similar to the B&K room target curve) set the gain of each filter to -0.6db (10x 0.6 = 6).

 

The beauty with cascaded 1st order filters is the tilt will be really linear ("straight") and super transparent.

The downside is you have to enter 10 values. But of course you can store them in a text file for easy editing and copy them into HQPs filter tab.

In addition you can store different sets in the pipeline matrix of HQP which makes switching between different sets of settings really easy.

 

I think you can get similar result with less EQs of wider slopes than 6 dB/oct. But certainly using bank of those 10 should also be fine.

 

Always good to check the results with the Plot-function.

 

[bogi]

47 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

With this setting you can cascade several filters the way I showed above.

The 10 1st order HiShelfs with -0.3db from above translate to -3db over the audible frequency range.

Should look like this (@Miska, please correct if I'm wrong):

iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,

… and so on.

If you want -6db overall (similar to the B&K room target curve) set the gain of each filter to -0.6db (10x 0.6 = 6).

The beauty with cascaded 1st order filters is the tilt will be really linear ("straight") and super transparent.

Thanks, that's helpful. I was confused why you are using set of 10 filters to cover audio band and Miska 3. I thought the 2 examples - yours and Miskas are using filters with different transition band and that's the reason for the difference. From your last answer it seems to me that you preferred higher nuber of filters in order to get more linear overall tilt curve.

[bogi]

https://mynewmicrophone.com/audio-shelving-eq-what-are-low-shelf-high-shelf-filters/

High Shelf Filter Transition Band

The transition band of a high shelf filter is the band of frequencies between the aforementioned cutoff frequencies (f₁ and f₂) and is largely defined by the slope of the amplitude change. This is where the order of the filter comes into play.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

@Miska@copy_of_a My question was how far are fH and fL, when I set up a filter (one of 10 in set or one of 3 in set you recommended). So how to count fH/fL ratio, which is reflecting the width of transition band. Is it high math, or is there any online/offline tool which could easily count that? Or the only practical thing for me is to look at graphs? My thinking is that knowing fH/fL ratio could help to decide how many filters are needed to cover audio band.

[bogi]

1 hour ago, copy_of_a said:

The beauty with cascaded 1st order filters is the tilt will be really linear ("straight") and super transparent.

Is 'the trick' with cascaded 1st order filters working only when every next filter in the series has f set exactly one octave (double of the previous frequency) higher? Is that a requirement for this case?

In Miskas case is the rule different? I want to understand cascading if I need to follow some rules, so therefore I am asking for differences between yours and Miskas suggestion. With yours suggestion I am able to define tilt filter for any wished attenuation. Perfect!

But based on Miska's suggestion I am missing a rule how could I design a tilt filter with different overall attenuation using only 3 filters with much lower slope value. @Miska is there any rule I would need to follow or should I only look at graphs?

[Miska]

2 hours ago, bogi said:

 

@Miska@copy_of_a My question was how far are fH and fL, when I set up a filter (one of 10 in set or one of 3 in set you recommended). So how to count fH/fL ratio, which is reflecting the width of transition band. Is it high math, or is there any online/offline tool which could easily count that? Or the only practical thing for me is to look at graphs? My thinking is that knowing fH/fL ratio could help to decide how many filters are needed to cover audio band.

 

Each EQ is IIR biquad filter. S is multiplier for 12 dB/oct. So 0.5 gives you 6 dB/oct and 0.25 gives you 3 dB/oct, etc.

 

For the EQ's where you define "bw" it is bandwidth in number of octaves. And Q is the traditional Q value for the cases where that is applicable (peak and notch for example). Some EQ's support two versions where you can specify either "bw" or "q".

 

[Hammer]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

 

HQPlayer playback works fine standalone, without Roon?

 

Are both HQPlayer and Roon on the same computer? If they are, is the DAC disabled in Roon Settings -> Audio (must be)?

 

HQPlayer has the network control button pressed?

 

Roon has correct IP address for HQPlayer, and firewall is not preventing incoming connection from Roon?

 

HQPlayer Client is able to connect to HQPlayer server?

Hi, below are the answers to your questions.  Thank you for your help.

 

HQPlayer playback works fine standalone, without Roon?  Yes, HQPlayer plays fine without Roon.

 

Are both HQPlayer and Roon on the same computer? If they are, is the DAC disabled in Roon Settings -> Audio (must be)?  Roon Core and HQPlayer are on the same Windows machine.  There is no DAC attached to the machine.  HQPlayer is setup to play to NAA which it does correctly on a standalone basis.

 

HQPlayer has the network control button pressed?  Yes, it is pressed.

 

Roon has correct IP address for HQPlayer, and firewall is not preventing incoming connection from Roon?  I have tried adding HQPlayer to Roon using both the IP address of the Windows machine and as localhost.  Neither one works.

 

HQPlayer Client is able to connect to HQPlayer server?  I’m not sure what this means.  I run HQPlayer Desktop and both HQPlayer4Client and HQplayer4Desktop are added to Windows Firewall.

 

[Miska]

33 minutes ago, Hammer said:

Roon has correct IP address for HQPlayer, and firewall is not preventing incoming connection from Roon?  I have tried adding HQPlayer to Roon using both the IP address of the Windows machine and as localhost.  Neither one works.

 

OK, "localhost" should then work fine.

 

33 minutes ago, Hammer said:

HQPlayer Client is able to connect to HQPlayer server?  I’m not sure what this means.  I run HQPlayer Desktop and both HQPlayer4Client and HQplayer4Desktop are added to Windows Firewall.

 

That you can connect and control HQPlayer Desktop from HQPlayer Client running on the same computer.

 

[copy_of_a]

6 hours ago, bogi said:

Is 'the trick' with cascaded 1st order filters working only when every next filter in the series has f set exactly one octave (double of the previous frequency) higher? Is that a requirement for this case?

as outlined above: yes, absolutely!

[copy_of_a]

@Miska

Wow, I had no idea how powerful the EQ plugin is!
Now that I’ve understood how the parameters work (many thanks again!) I‘ve replicated my most important curves (basically some corrections of room modes combined with tilt-variants and fixed loudness compensation).
I wasn‘t aware that you can switch between plugin presets stored in the pipeline matrix GAPLESS!!! (through HQPDcontrol). Switching presets gaplessly is a killler feature as it makes selecting the most useful preset for a given music style at a given playback volume a breeze. I am really super happy about this!

In addition operating HQP through HQPDcontrol is much more responsive when you don‘t use IR wavs but the built in plugin.

 

One last question about the plugin: do the filters have to be entered in ascending order by frequency or doesn‘t it matter?
 

Many thanks!!! 👍

[Miska]

6 minutes ago, copy_of_a said:

One last question about the plugin: do the filters have to be entered in ascending order by frequency or doesn‘t it matter?

 

They are processed in the order specified, but it doesn't matter as the resulting transfer function remains the same.

 

[copy_of_a]

3 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

They are processed in the order specified, but it doesn't matter as the resulting transfer function remains the same.

 

Great - thanks again!

[Hammer]

12 hours ago, Miska said:

 

OK, "localhost" should then work fine.

 

 

That you can connect and control HQPlayer Desktop from HQPlayer Client running on the same computer.

 

I don't believe I can.  I scanned my flac library in HQPlayer Desktop and opened HQPlayer Client.  I client, I selected localhost, but I don't see any of the albums that were scanned.  I've tried searching for things I know exists and nothing comes up.  Both HQPlayer Desktop and Client are running on the same machine. 

 

As a test, I installed HQPlayer Desktop on another machine with only one NIC and no Hyper-V and from the original Windows Machine, I am able to connect to this new install of HQPlayer.  So it seems the problem is something specific to the first machine.

[bogi]

  

On 10/31/2021 at 11:51 AM, copy_of_a said:

iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3, iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,

… and so on.

On 10/30/2021 at 11:42 PM, Miska said:

After some experimentation, I ended up with three bands, one per decade and following EQ, with total of -6 dB slope:

iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=500;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=5000;s=0.1;g=-2

 

I created a little script which can generate such long lines. The script requires input file like the one below. The example input file corresponds to the above suggestions from copy_of_a and Miska:

[
    {
        "iir_type": "hshelf",
        "start_f": 30,
        "number_of_cascades": 10,
        "s": 0.5,
        "multiplier": 2,
        "gain": -0.3
    },
    {
        "iir_type": "hshelf",
        "start_f": 50
        "number_of_cascades": 3,
        "s": 0.1,
        "multiplier": 10,
        "gain": -2
    }
]

and output is:

d:\git-work\audio>python gen_hqp_tilt_line.py
----------------
iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=240;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=480;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=960;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=1920;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=3840;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=7680;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=15360;s=0.5;g=-0.3,
----------------
iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=500;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=5000;s=0.1;g=-2,

It is python script so you need python 3.6 or newer installed (on Linux and OS X preinstalled, on Windows: https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/)
generate_tilt_lines.zip

[copy_of_a]

1 hour ago, bogi said:

  

I created a little script which can generate such long lines. The script requires input file like the one below. The example input file corresponds to the above suggestions from copy_of_a and Miska:

[
    {
        "iir_type": "hshelf",
        "start_f": 30,
        "number_of_cascades": 10,
        "s": 0.5,
        "multiplier": 2,
        "gain": -0.3
    },
    {
        "iir_type": "hshelf",
        "start_f": 50
        "number_of_cascades": 3,
        "s": 0.1,
        "multiplier": 10,
        "gain": -2
    }
]

and output is:

d:\git-work\audio>python gen_hqp_tilt_line.py
----------------
iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=240;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=480;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=960;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=1920;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=3840;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=7680;s=0.5;g=-0.3,iir:type=hshelf;f=15360;s=0.5;g=-0.3,
----------------
iir:type=hshelf;f=50;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=500;s=0.1;g=-2,iir:type=hshelf;f=5000;s=0.1;g=-2,

It is python script so you need python 3.6 or newer installed (on Linux and OS X preinstalled, on Windows: https://www.python.org/downloads/windows/)
generate_tilt_lines.zip

cool :-)

I've uncluttered my text file where I've edited and stored all my HQP IIR settings and was just about to post them here.

But your script is certainly very convenient!!

Just keep in mind that my and Miskas tilts above are different - Miskas tilt is -6db overall (3x -2db), mine is -3db overall (10x -0.3db). To match the two you have to set the -0.3db gain for each filter to -0.6db in my set.

[ iir:type=hshelf;f=30;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=60;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=120;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=240;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=480;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=960;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=1920;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=3840;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=7680;s=0.5;g=-0.6,iir:type=hshelf;f=15360;s=0.5;g=-0.6, ].

 

I'm sure you are aware of this but wanted to comment for the sake of clarity.

 

Many thanks!!

[bogi]

Miska, I have a suggestion to separate matrix profile settings from settings.xml, so it would be easier to backup / restore / exchange individual presets with others. It would be also less risk to generate matrix profile preset by script.

[Miska]

49 minutes ago, bogi said:

Miska, I have a suggestion to separate matrix profile settings from settings.xml, so it would be easier to backup / restore / exchange individual presets with others. It would be also less risk to generate matrix profile preset by script.

 

It is on my TODO-list in hope that Acourate/Audiolense would also support exporting a ZIP with the filters + configuration...

 

[Zauurx]

Thanks again for the work... and for adding to the todo list: 
For settings and switching from one environment to another, it is possible to fix the management via hqcontrol2.exe.
I use it with "windows run-command" to manage HQP faster than with the gui client.
And I switch between a configuration with matrix (convolution) and a version without but with speaker parameters (distance + balance).But the settings.xml file call does not work anymore.

 

And in the features to be added (if possible), the volume control "up" and "down" is done by increment of 1db.
Could we choose the increment?
ex. ""c:\Program Files\Signalyst\HQPlayer 4 Desktop\hqp-control2.exe" ROON_HDP --volume-up 2" for "2db".

 

[Miska]

2 hours ago, Zauurx said:

And I switch between a configuration with matrix (convolution) and a version without but with speaker parameters (distance + balance).But the settings.xml file call does not work anymore.

 

As mentioned earlier, this is pretty hard thing to do with HQPlayer v4.

 

2 hours ago, Zauurx said:

And in the features to be added (if possible), the volume control "up" and "down" is done by increment of 1db.
Could we choose the increment?
ex. ""c:\Program Files\Signalyst\HQPlayer 4 Desktop\hqp-control2.exe" ROON_HDP --volume-up 2" for "2db".

 

There's the absolute volume setting possibility.

 

But if you want custom behavior, you can modify the hqp-control2 application, as the source code is available... ;)

 

[Spacecase]

What specs are needed to do gauss-xla @ 1.5mhz?

[OzarkMtn]

HQPlayer 4 Desktop 4.14.0 has been released!