Favourite Tube DACs

[mordante]

Have you ever heard one?

 

No, and I am sure that they sound good. But I will also never hear them. No one I know is willing to spend €2300 or more on a product that you cannot hear before you buy. For that kind of money I would buy something like a Metrum, Cord, Antilope etc. Not saying those are better DACs but at least I can hear/see them before I buy it. And if I do not like it after I bought it I can sell of for not a massive loss.

[wisnon]

Actually you CAN hear one. I know the guys sometimes do demos in the US for a deposit. Many people have heard one at local raves and a L5 and an L7 was at the Show 2014 in Vegas.

 

Where do you live?

 

BTW, last I heard the production capacity was backlogged due to strong US and other country demand. People ARE spending the money... plus there is the possibility of returning it within 7 days for full money back less shipping.

[bhobba]

QUOTE=bhobba;297475]Blancmange? Really?? I would not use that word for Phasure. Makes me wonder what the heck you were hearing or maybe you could explain that word with Phasure. I would never fork over big $$$ for a Blancmange sounding Junk Sugar Food Dac

 

Blacmange:

Urban Dictionary: blancmange

'a boring or rather uninteresting person'

 

When applied to a DAC - guess what - it means it was a bit boring and uninteresting - lacking in life - slightly dull. And that's what the Phasure is to my, and others, I know ears. It is very clean clear and pure - in fact supreme in those areas. Also excellent detail retrieval. It runs rings around other DAC's - A PDX, Playback Designs, MSB and other highly fancied DAC's out my way. For example in comparison to the PDX, which I own, it revealed the PDX had an unnatural edge. It didn't have the 'life' of the PDX, but that life was 'wrong'.

 

However it meet its match in the Killer. The Killer is simply very real sounding, harmonically rich and layered - the Phasure, in comparison, to my and others ears, was dull, insipid, uninteresting and boring - Blacmange like. But that's of course in comparison - the Phasure has a very distinctive sound that to me is unmistakable and has qualities such as purity and clarity that are easy to hear - but when you hear something that sounds 'real' you realize the Phasure is a bit lacking.

 

Of course Glory would probably say its valve euphonics - sugar as he calls it. Those that have heard the Killer don't necessarily agree.

 

So you have lost my interest on your thoughts on Dac offs. You can have the last word.

 

Suit yourself. I hope you realize however that not being able to accept what others say because its not your personal experience, preference etc is perhaps not the best way to approach things. It doesn't mean they are right, or if you heard it you would agree. It is however what they think and experience, and its wise to acknowledge we are all individuals that bring different things to the table. I have sat with enough people listening to gear to know people can, and often do hear things differently. That doesn't make them wrong - just different.

 

Anyway there will be a blind GTG out my way on the 15th March with the Phasure, Killer, AMR and PDX.

 

Being blind no one will be influenced by preconceptions that valves are euphonic etc etc. We will see what happens.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

No, and I am sure that they sound good. But I will also never hear them. No one I know is willing to spend €2300 or more on a product that you cannot hear before you buy. For that kind of money I would buy something like a Metrum, Cord, Antilope etc. Not saying those are better DACs but at least I can hear/see them before I buy it. And if I do not like it after I bought it I can sell of for not a massive loss.

 

Absofriggenlutely.

 

I am very positive towards the Killer - but the chance of anyone outside Australia hearing it is zero.

 

You would have to have rocks in your head to get it, or any DAC, without hearing it.

 

Reading write ups like this, GTG's, shootouts etc simply indicates what may be worthwhile to seek out and hear - but never, ever get any product without hearing it first.

 

Thanks

Bill

[k6davis]

No, and I am sure that they sound good. But I will also never hear them. No one I know is willing to spend €2300 or more on a product that you cannot hear before you buy. For that kind of money I would buy something like a Metrum, Cord, Antilope etc. Not saying those are better DACs but at least I can hear/see them before I buy it. And if I do not like it after I bought it I can sell of for not a massive loss.

 

Absofriggenlutely.

 

I am very positive towards the Killer - but the chance of anyone outside Australia hearing it is zero.

 

You would have to have rocks in your head to get it, or any DAC, without hearing it.

 

Reading write ups like this, GTG's, shootouts etc simply indicates what may be worthwhile to seek out and hear - but never, ever get any product without hearing it first.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

I ordered a LampizatOr DSD DAC all the way from Poland without having heard it. It's a rather expensive, optioned out model too.

 

I researched it extensively and found that every review of their DSD DAC unit, both amateur and professional, from sources worldwide found it to be the very best sounding they'd ever heard or at worst, 2nd best to (their memory of) a $60-$100k cost-no-object DAC. And who can say what kind of selection bias factors into that call.

 

In addition to that, the LampizatOr DSD DAC uses a unique & innovative "chipless" technology recently developed by their chief engineer. It has no ESS Sabre, Burr-Brown, Wolfson etc. DAC chip at all. Because DSD is a more direct representation of an analog waveform than PCM, it is possible to read DSD directly off the hard drive, without the type of conversion that PCM requires.

 

Beyond all of that, I was able to customize my unit with every premium audio upgrade (Duelund capacitors, premium analog volume control for direct connection to the power amp, balanced operation) the manufacturer offers and I ordered it while the company was having a sale - which put it just within my reach financially. My unit, on paper, would be superior to even the LampizatOr DSD units getting all of the accolades.

 

The potential to try out a unit like that, with the option to return it if I didn't like it was an easy decision to make. I didn't sign a contract with the company in blood. I'm under no obligation to keep it. I'm still inside of my trial period now.

 

How does it sound? It's unbelievable. It's very hard to stop listening to. I had a NAD M51 previously. It is an excellent, Stereophile Class A+ rated unit. I was very, very happy with it and doubted that the "world's best" units could be dramatically superior. I was wrong. When I A-B'd the two units I found it difficult to switch back to the NAD, even for just a moment.

 

I run it with Windows Server 2012 and AudioPhil's Audiophile Optimizer which I also swear by. It made a huge sonic improvement with both DAC's. Like the Phasure approach, people who overlook meticulous optimization of the server's operating system are really missing out on what their systems are capable of.

 

I can't say that my setup sounds better than The Killer (got to love that name!!), Phasure, dcs, MSB or <insert your favorite SOTA DAC here>, because I haven't heard those. I'd happily put it in the ring with anything though. I wish there were an easy way to do that.

 

But back to the point I was making. I live in the Atlanta, GA area, which is not exactly a small city. If I had limited my selection to only what I could demo in the few remaining high-end shops in the region, I would have been worse off. I didn't buy my DAC unheard. I tried it. And it's worked out extremely well in my case.

 

Keith

[bhobba]

I can't say that my setup sounds better than The Killer (got to love that name!!), Phasure, dcs, MSB or <insert your favorite SOTA DAC here>, because I haven't heard those. I'd happily put it in the ring with anything though. I wish there were an easy way to do that.

 

Love it

 

But back to the point I was making. I live in the Atlanta, GA area, which is not exactly a small city. If I had limited my selection to only what I could demo in the few remaining high-end shops in the region, I would have been worse off. I didn't buy my DAC unheard. I tried it. And it's worked out extremely well in my case.

 

I have done similar things.

 

But don't discount contacting fellow audiophiles in your area to hear what they have.

 

IMHO that's the new paradigm - people discuss stuff on forums like this, then if something appeals try and check it out at someones place. If not most products will be available under a money back return policy so that's another possibility.

 

Thanks

Bill

[wisnon]

I ordered a LampizatOr DSD DAC all the way from Poland without having heard it. It's a rather expensive, optioned out model too.

 

I researched it extensively and found that every review of their DSD DAC unit, both amateur and professional, from sources worldwide found it to be the very best sounding they'd ever heard or at worst, 2nd best to (their memory of) a $60-$100k cost-no-object DAC. And who can say what kind of selection bias factors into that call.

 

But back to the point I was making. I live in the Atlanta, GA area, which is not exactly a small city. If I had limited my selection to only what I could demo in the few remaining high-end shops in the region, I would have been worse off. I didn't buy my DAC unheard. I tried it. And it's worked out extremely well in my case.

 

Keith

 

Keith, I am glad you are loving your Lampi. I can imagine its sounds awesome maxxed out! Did you post detailed feedback at A-Circle? if you did i missed it!

[wisnon]

No, and I am sure that they sound good. But I will also never hear them. No one I know is willing to spend €2300 or more on a product that you cannot hear before you buy. For that kind of money I would buy something like a Metrum, Cord, Antilope etc. Not saying those are better DACs but at least I can hear/see them before I buy it. And if I do not like it after I bought it I can sell of for not a massive loss.

 

There is a money back guarantee.....

[k6davis]

Keith, I am glad you are loving your Lampi. I can imagine its sounds awesome maxxed out! Did you post detailed feedback at A-Circle? if you did i missed it!

 

The detailed feedback is coming and as you can tell from what I've already said, it will be very positive.

 

I'm letting it break in and giving myself some time get acclimated to it. Apparently the Duelunds take hundreds of hours to be at their best, so I can expect even better sound than I'm getting now. I'm also making an effort to directly compare it to the few other DAC's I can get access to. Unfortunately, I don't have access to many, especially to seriously high end DAC's such as those we're discussing in this thread, but the Lampi is certainly the best I've heard.

 

Stay tuned...

[nevillekapadia]

I have found that there is no one dac - tube or solid state that does it all - great redbook and 2xdsd. So would like to hear from you'll if that is the case with these dac's too.

 

I have found and used the Concert Fidelity NOS Dac with battery power supply for the digital conversion for red book clearly outstanding. Its output stage is tubes. The harmonics are absolutely fabulous, including the detail retrieval. It is bettered by the Trinity in retrieval, but then that is a solid state dac and uber expensive.

 

I use the Playback with its new USB-XT box for high res and SACD playback (had to have that), plus as a transport to feed the CF dac. With the the new playback designs USB box, the AT&T cables can give me a different flavour in presentation which assists me to my liking of my 2xdsd vinyl rips.

 

Look forward to Bill's shoot out.

[bhobba]

Given that Lukasz just finalized his BIG 7 (single chassis L7), that and the Killer Dac would be my most sought after Tube dac demos.

 

Also, unless you are in Australia, the Killer is the LEAST likely DAC you would be able to get a hold of for such demoes.

 

If you are in Australia its a doodle - virtually every capital city, to the best of my knowledge anyway, has at least one and you simply need to contact such an owner. The Killer DAC forum should easily elicit who they are.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Look forward to Bill's shoot out.

 

So am I - and many others.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Apparently the Duelunds take hundreds of hours to be at their best, so I can expect even better sound than I'm getting now.

 

I have a LOT of experience with Duelunds, both VSF Copper and the Cast - with a number of DAC's I own using them (the Killer has VSF Copper as does my PDX) and have heard others - a PDX with Cast and know of an upgraded AMR with Cast - but haven't heard that one but know what people have told me about it. I have owned quite a few speakers that use them - both Cast and VSF, a local speaker maker I know uses them in virtually all his designs.

 

They take up to 1000 hours to fully break in, but you can hear a significant improvement after about 200 hours - although Duelund is one of those caps that actually never sounds horrid - they sound OK from the start - maybe a bit tight - that's all - they simply get better.

 

Oh - and just as a side note Duelund are VERY expensive, but stacked Jupiter Beeswax are nearly as good at a much cheaper price - but Duelund is still king if the best is wanted - and really everyone that's heard the difference, including me, ponies up for the Duelund - they are that good.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

 

Its just been finalised - another interesting comparison tomorrow.

 

1. My PDX with Phillps SQ Valves. The Killer simply MURDERD my PDX with Tesla Valves but the SQ vales sound a lot better. Will see how it goes.

 

2. The Phasure

 

3. The Killer

 

4 Playback Designs MPD 5

 

5. EMM Labs DAC

 

Again should prove interesting.

 

Thanks

Bill

[k6davis]

The Killer simply MURDERD

 

ROFL

 

I will likely never know how my (very nice sounding) DAC compares to The Killer, but I don't think there will ever be a better name for a DAC.

 

Priceless...

[k6davis]

I have a LOT of experience with Duelunds, both VSF Copper and the Cast - with a number of DAC's I own using them (the Killer has VSF Copper as does my PDX) and have heard others - a PDX with Cast and know of an upgraded AMR with Cast - but haven't heard that one but know what people have told me about it. I have owned quite a few speakers that use them - both Cast and VSF, a local speaker maker I know uses them in virtually all his designs.

 

They take up to 1000 hours to fully break in, but you can hear a significant improvement after about 200 hours - although Duelund is one of those caps that actually never sounds horrid - they sound OK from the start - maybe a bit tight - that's all - they simply get better.

 

Oh - and just as a side note Duelund are VERY expensive, but stacked Jupiter Beeswax are nearly as good at a much cheaper price - but Duelund is still king if the best is wanted - and really everyone that's heard the difference, including me, ponies up for the Duelund - they are that good.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

That's great to know Bill.

 

I got Duelunds based on what I'd heard about them being the best, but I just haven't been able to do the kind of comparative listening you have.

 

Thanks for sharing your findings.

[bhobba]

I got Duelunds based on what I'd heard about them being the best, but I just haven't been able to do the kind of comparative listening you have.

 

You heard correctly. But for lower priced models check out the Jupiter's Beeswax.

 

Thanks for sharing your findings.

 

Mate that's what these forums are all about.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

I will likely never know how my (very nice sounding) DAC compares to The Killer, but I don't think there will ever be a better name for a DAC. Priceless...

 

Here I was thinking it was a bit too subtle :) :) :) :)

 

I believe your Australian distributor is in Sydney.

 

All he has to do is pop on over to one of the main Killer DAC guys, Steve Garland's place, with a L7, or whatever he wants to take, and you can get an instant comparison. Steve is pretty generous with his knowledge as well - you may pick up a few tips.

 

If you want to do it drop me a line and I will give you Steve's email.

 

Nice system to hear as well - many people think it could be the best system in Australia.

 

And any time you want a comparison with the DAC's we have were I am, Gold Coast way, feel free to send one up. Will only be only too happy to arrange some comparisons - the Phasure, Killer, PDX - all sorts of stuff. Always a lot of fun.

 

Thanks

Bill

[k6davis]

Here I was thinking it was a bit too subtle :) :) :) :)

 

I believe your Australian distributor is in Sydney.

 

All he has to do is pop on over to one of the main Killer DAC guys, Steve Garland's place, with a L7, or whatever he wants to take, and you can get an instant comparison. Steve is pretty generous with his knowledge as well - you may pick up a few tips.

 

If you want to do it drop me a line and I will give you Steve's email.

 

Nice system to hear as well - many people think it could be the best system in Australia.

 

And any time you want a comparison with the DAC's we have were I am, Gold Coast way, feel free to send one up. Will only be only too happy to arrange some comparisons - the Phasure, Killer, PDX - all sorts of stuff. Always a lot of fun.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Man, I'd be all over that, but I'm in the USA, Atlanta, GA area, and with what I'm spending on this hobby, I'm not sure when I'll be able to take a trip down under. Smile.

 

Keith

[bhobba]

Man, I'd be all over that, but I'm in the USA, Atlanta, GA area, and with what I'm spending on this hobby, I'm not sure when I'll be able to take a trip down under. Smile.

 

Know all about that one.

 

Same here.

 

Thanks

Bill

[classfolkphile]

You heard correctly. But for lower priced models check out the Jupiter's Beeswax.

 

 

 

Mate that's what these forums are all about.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

I haven't used the Duelund caps (although I have used their resistors to good effect) but I second the excellence of the Jupiter HTs. They transformed both the MHDT Havana and Eastern Electric Minimax I put them in.

 

Jupiter has a copper foil stacked cap under development that some who have heard it claim equals the Duelund.

 

Dueland CAST

 

favorite bypass caps

[bhobba]

Jupiter has a copper foil stacked cap under development that some who have heard it claim equals the Duelund.

 

That's the word.

 

Guys out my way are eagerly waiting for their release.

 

As one Duelund aficionado says, for him anyway, Duelund are not the best game in town, they are the only game. But the cost - the Cast used in my new speakers cost $1000.00 each - ouch - and they are used everywhere leading to the speakers costing over $15K - but to be fair they also contain other expensive stuff like Bybees bonded to the terminal of each driver. Everyone wants the same performance but at a better cost. Fingers crossed.

 

Thanks

Bill

[findog3103]

I also bought a Lampizator level 4 without hearing it but after researching the press and forums, I pulled the trigger. Glad I did. I am I love not only with the DAC but the preamp and analog inputs for my vinyl gig as well.

 

Jason

[4est]

You should look inside of the units!

But their website is so crap that I would never trust the with my money. Also their most basic DAC the level 3 costs a lost of money, €2300. That is not a cheap DAC by any means. Then why does the website look like a site is made by a 12 year old?

[barrows]

I haven't used the Duelund caps (although I have used their resistors to good effect) but I second the excellence of the Jupiter HTs. They transformed both the MHDT Havana and Eastern Electric Minimax I put them in.

 

Jupiter has a copper foil stacked cap under development that some who have heard it claim equals the Duelund.

 

Dueland CAST

 

favorite bypass caps

 

Yeah, I have been wondering about the rumored Jupiter copper foils... i heard the rumor many months ago, and still have heard nothing more. I sent Jupiter an e-mail asking about them, and how the project is going, no reply. Anyone have other news on the Jupiter copper foils?