Favourite Tube DACs

[classfolkphile]

I spoke with Chris at Jupiter in December: he said then that some pieces would be available the beginning of March. Haven't seen anything about them being for sale yet but then it seems every new audio product is always late.

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

 

Was at a comparison yesterday between:

 

1. The Phasure

 

2. The Killer

 

3. Playback Designs MPD 5

 

It was with Adam Tensor active speakers fed by an Audio Research Reference 5 SE pre.

 

Different outcome than I expected. It should have been the AR pre triumphant comparison.

 

It was amazing. All the DAC's sounded great through this pre. People have been telling me about it for ages - the soundstage widens and envelops you - voices just sound great. But its not dripping in honey etc - its undoubtedly some kind of valve euphonics, but what its doing is subtle - the effects aren't - but what it's doing to achieve it aren't clear to me - not clear at all. I am going to have to eat crow - I originally thought it was just hype about this pre - it isn't. Still at nearly $20k here in Aus I wont be getting one any time soon - but its good to know you are actually getting something special for that type of dosh.

 

Anyway I liked all DAC's in this system, but my ordering (worst to best) was the Playback Designs, then Phasure, then Killer - but I would have to say I could see that my liking the Killer over the Phasure was purely the harmonic richness - it didn't sound uninteresting at all - it's just I found the Killer a bit more interesting. But in compensation it had greater detail - which is better - can't say - I liked the richer sound - but that's just me. The PD still sounded too polite for my tastes, but one guy thought that was because it presented stuff in proper perspective - other DACs may have been emphasizing things.

 

Just to see what the pre was doing we fed the Killer directly into the active speakers. Its the most harmonically rich of all the DAC's and it was thought it was experiencing the lift of the pre the least. It simply dropped away - dull and uninteresting in comparison.

 

Since this is a tube DAC thread the lesson here is, if you have a top notch tube pre, then if your DAC is tube or not isn't that important.

 

Thanks

Bill

[alcarp]

Hi Guys

 

Was at a comparison yesterday between:

 

1. The Phasure

 

2. The Killer

 

3. Playback Designs MPD 5

 

It was with Adam Tensor active speakers fed by an Audio Research Reference 5 SE pre.

 

Different outcome than I expected. It should have been the AR pre triumphant comparison.

 

It was amazing. All the DAC's sounded great through this pre. People have been telling me about it for ages - the soundstage widens and envelops you - voices just sound great. But its not dripping in honey etc - its undoubtedly some kind of valve euphonics, but what its doing is subtle - the effects aren't - but what it's doing to achieve it aren't clear to me - not clear at all. I am going to have to eat crow - I originally thought it was just hype about this pre - it isn't. Still at nearly $20k here in Aus I wont be getting one any time soon - but its good to know you are actually getting something special for that type of dosh.

 

 

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Agree with Bill re the AR5 pre. I was going straight from my DAC to a power amp until a friend loaned me this pre. The difference was amazing. I couldn't afford the AR5 so got a Ming Da MC300-PRE instead and upgraded it. Its almost as good as the AR5.

 

Very interesting that the Phasure was fed into the AR5. I thought the recommendation was not to use a pre?

[onthebeach]

Hi Guys

 

Was at a comparison yesterday between:

 

1. The Phasure

 

2. The Killer

 

3. Playback Designs MPD 5

 

It was with Adam Tensor active speakers fed by an Audio Research Reference 5 SE pre.

 

Different outcome than I expected. It should have been the AR pre triumphant comparison.

 

It was amazing. All the DAC's sounded great through this pre. People have been telling me about it for ages - the soundstage widens and envelops you - voices just sound great. But its not dripping in honey etc - its undoubtedly some kind of valve euphonics, but what its doing is subtle - the effects aren't - but what it's doing to achieve it aren't clear to me - not clear at all. I am going to have to eat crow - I originally thought it was just hype about this pre - it isn't. Still at nearly $20k here in Aus I wont be getting one any time soon - but its good to know you are actually getting something special for that type of dosh.

 

Anyway I liked all DAC's in this system, but my ordering (worst to best) was the Playback Designs, then Phasure, then Killer - but I would have to say I could see that my liking the Killer over the Phasure was purely the harmonic richness - it didn't sound uninteresting at all - it's just I found the Killer a bit more interesting. But in compensation it had greater detail - which is better - can't say - I liked the richer sound - but that's just me. The PD still sounded too polite for my tastes, but one guy thought that was because it presented stuff in proper perspective - other DACs may have been emphasizing things.

 

Just to see what the pre was doing we fed the Killer directly into the active speakers. Its the most harmonically rich of all the DAC's and it was thought it was experiencing the lift of the pre the least. It simply dropped away - dull and uninteresting in comparison.

 

Since this is a tube DAC thread the lesson here is, if you have a top notch tube pre, then if your DAC is tube or not isn't that important.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Hi Bill. I'm not sure how much better the SE is over my ARC REF5 but I love the sound I get from it being fed by my Killer dac.

 

When I lent it to alcarp I was amazed at how much more I was enjoying the experience. But it is a coloured sound imo but its a colour I have come to appreciate and enjoy over the years. Its not to everyones taste but for me for ARC ref 5 and the Kdac are a match made in audio heaven. Also my ARC REF 110 power amp helps with the whole ARC presentation.

 

It was interesting at the Sydney hifi show a couple of years back when I walked into the ARC room it sounded like I was back home to a degree. It was a nice feeling though after the cold clinical harshness of many of the other rooms. It really gave me a sense that I enjoyed that ARC sound which is coloured but for me at least its a very pleasing colour.

[acg]

Hi Guys

 

Was at a comparison yesterday between:

 

1. The Phasure

 

2. The Killer

 

3. Playback Designs MPD 5

 

It was with Adam Tensor active speakers fed by an Audio Research Reference 5 SE pre.

 

Different outcome than I expected. It should have been the AR pre triumphant comparison.

 

It was amazing. All the DAC's sounded great through this pre. People have been telling me about it for ages - the soundstage widens and envelops you - voices just sound great. But its not dripping in honey etc - its undoubtedly some kind of valve euphonics, but what its doing is subtle - the effects aren't - but what it's doing to achieve it aren't clear to me - not clear at all. I am going to have to eat crow - I originally thought it was just hype about this pre - it isn't. Still at nearly $20k here in Aus I wont be getting one any time soon - but its good to know you are actually getting something special for that type of dosh.

 

Anyway I liked all DAC's in this system, but my ordering (worst to best) was the Playback Designs, then Phasure, then Killer - but I would have to say I could see that my liking the Killer over the Phasure was purely the harmonic richness - it didn't sound uninteresting at all - it's just I found the Killer a bit more interesting. But in compensation it had greater detail - which is better - can't say - I liked the richer sound - but that's just me. The PD still sounded too polite for my tastes, but one guy thought that was because it presented stuff in proper perspective - other DACs may have been emphasizing things.

 

Just to see what the pre was doing we fed the Killer directly into the active speakers. Its the most harmonically rich of all the DAC's and it was thought it was experiencing the lift of the pre the least. It simply dropped away - dull and uninteresting in comparison.

 

Since this is a tube DAC thread the lesson here is, if you have a top notch tube pre, then if your DAC is tube or not isn't that important.

 

Thanks

Bill

 

Hi Bill,

 

Although I was unable to make it down to hear this comparo, it should be pointed out that the Phasure was still run from a Mac running Audirvarna+ rather than the source that it has been designed around (a PC running XXHighEnd).

 

If that pre-amp makes every dac sound similar then it must be strongly coloured. It is interesting though that the one dac that is designed to run through a preamp (the Playback) is still not preferred when it is run through one, whereas the two dacs not designed for a preamp still outperform it (at least on the opinions reported here).

 

Cheers,

 

Anthony

[bhobba]

If that pre-amp makes every dac sound similar then it must be strongly coloured.

 

They did NOT sound similar - just good. The sound stage widened and enveloped, voices sounded more layered and real. It was coloration 100% for sure - but of a rather subtle sort.

 

You could still easily hear the differences in all the DAC's.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

But it is a coloured sound imo but its a colour I have come to appreciate and enjoy over the years. Its not to everyones taste but for me for ARC ref 5 and the Kdac are a match made in audio heaven. Also my ARC REF 110 power amp helps with the whole ARC presentation.

 

Yes its colored - but IMHO its of a subtle sort.

 

You can still easily hear the differences in all the DAC's

 

Thanks

Bill

[nevillekapadia]

For over 12 years I had used a Dac directly into the power amps. But when I added a Concert Fidelity Tube pre-amp into the chain, I could listen in a relaxed manner to digital again and again!

 

Bill, was only red book used for playback on these dac's? Did you'll go with any DSD? If so, was the Playback using AT&T connectors in P/link mode.

 

Many thanks.

[bhobba]

Bill, was only red book used for playback on these dac's? Did you'll go with any DSD? If so, was the Playback using AT&T connectors in P/link mode.

 

Don't know about the connectors.

 

Thanks for bringing that up - forgot to mention DSD which we did try. The PD was quite a good deal better via DSD - nowhere near as polite - in fact VERY real live and present that way - but I still felt the Killer and Phasure were better. However the gap narrowed so much I would call it a personal preference thing.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Well the person at whose place we did the comparison kept the Killer and Phasure. He already owned the MPD5.

 

After a week of listening his ranking (best to worst) was the MPD5, then Phasure, then Killer.

 

This is the exact opposite of my ranking on his system with the AR pre, which goes to show what a strange hobby this is.

 

And evidently the person at whose place the original comparison was done (the week before this) warmed to the Phasure and evidently that is now the DAC he wants.

 

Thanks

Bill

[bhobba]

Hi Guys

 

Now I have the Killer back I took it down to a speaker maker I know to check out on his reference system against the PDX that it uses.

 

Previously did the same comparison and the Killer MURDERED the PDX (yea I know - sick), which annoyed the bejesus out of the the owner of that system. He eventually figured out it was the output valves of the PDX and they were changed to the Phillips SQ which made a huge difference so decided to do the comparison again.

 

Different story this time - a lot closer - in some areas like bass grip, life, and detail the PDX had the edge on some material. But to my ears the vocals of the Killer simply sounded real - the PDX didn't have the harmonic richness and layering with voices. On some material like Christmas With Dean Martin and Sinatra At The Sands everyone preferred the Killer. On other material it was a tie with a surprising amount of material (I would say about 20-30% of what we tried) a bit hard to tell a difference. On other stuff like Sade the PDX had a touch more life which for some tipped it in favor of the PDX - but Sade's voice still got me and I gave it to the Killer.

 

The owner of the system was a lot happier with this, but there is a new PDX in the pipeline so wants to hear how that goes. That comparison will occur on Sat 15th at a big GTG.

 

Thanks

Bill