Article: The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

[The Computer Audiophile]

- Under configuration 1, I'm passing digital audio through the power lines in my wall rather than over wifi. How likely am I to pick up line noise? Is it fair to assume that any line noise I pick up is less than I'm currently getting on the 5 GHz RF band? I imagine with or without line noise, you believe the sound quality is still superior to downsampling my music to 48 kHz, or else you wouldn't have bothered to suggest it!

 

- Would it work to plug one of those XAVB5101 devices into an a power line conditioner? Even if the conditioner doesn't do anything to improve the signal, it would actually be easier for me this way, at least in the room where the renderer is located, since I already have a Panamax in my audio rig, and I don't have any spare wall outlets in that room.

 

- As you noted in your EDIT, my renderer is currently running off Ethernet into AE3. So the only difference between the current configuration and configuration 2 is that I now run the Mac Mini off Ethernet into one if the AEs, correct?

 

- I don't actually have a need for the 2.4 GHz network. I set up two networks because I thought I'd be better off isolating my media traffic from my non-media traffic. If you think it would actually improve performance to put all traffic (media and non-media) onto a single network, either 2.4 or 5, I can do that, except that I'd still need to run AE2 in "extend a network" mode. Assuming for a moment that I don't end up running configuration 1, do you think I'm better off keeping two simultaneous wifi networks and running the DNLA on the un-extended wifi network, or consolidating to a single extended network?

 

Thanks again. This is incredibly helpful.

 

I don't think you're picking up any line noise using the power line adapters because Ethernet is galvanically isolated as long as you use regular cat6 cables like you're using. You can also get Ethernet isolators if you have noise issues. Baaske makes them, but the price has shot up recently.

 

I don't have experience using power line networking with a line conditioner. I suppose it all spends on how the conditioner works. If it has some crazy isolation / separation of some sort it may not even pass the Ethernet signal. You could always get a power strip liberator to give you another outlet on the wall if needed.

 

Correct about the Mac Mini moving to Ethernet as the only change for Config 2.

 

Just because the AE can run dual mode 2.4 and 5 GHz doesn't mean it works best that way. I'm skeptical that you're getting the best performance setup this way. The AEs are really good but they are not enterprise class. I would try everything on one network. You can also download the Xirrus Wi-Fi Inspector to check your network.

[Thunder240]

Chris, first off, I read your article on the Airport Extreme AC. It's a great read for anyone trying to run DNLA over a wireless network and running into trouble. Anyhow, I ran some more testing:

 

- Tested system with Mac Mini connected by ethernet to AE1. No improvement.

 

- Tested system with 5 GHz dual network disabled (2.4 GHz only), AE2 disabled, AE3 configured to join AE1's 2.4 GHz network (network is un-extended). No improvement. (Note that Netflix now reports getting 2 MBps, down from 7-10 on the 5 GHz network isolated from non-media traffic. I realize there are a lot of possible causes of this.)

 

- Tested system with 5 GHz network disabled, AE 3 configured to join AE1's 2.4 GHz network, Mac Mini connected by ethernet to AE1. No improvement.

 

I would test the same as above but using only 5 GHz instead of only 2.4 GHz, except that I can't figure out how to do this in the Airport Utility. Seems like Airport Utiltiy forces me to have a 2.4 GHz network, and adding a 5 GHz network is an option that I can either enable or disable.

 

I think I've exhausted all possible configurations using my current hardware. I also think that I've pretty much proven that inside my home, 802.11n (or rather, Apple's implementation of 802.11n) isn't capable of handling hi res (92+ kHz) audio. Of course YMMV. I recognize that everyone is gonna have a different set of walls in the way and different sources of noise to contend with. So unless there is a way to configure my Airport network to use 5 GHz only and to disable the 2.4, the next step will involve some new hardware purchases, although before I go out and buy the powerlines I'll probably test the network using the Netgear gateway alone (using ethernet runs from the gateway to the Mac Mini and to the renderer) just to make sure that AE1 is capable of handling 96 and 192 kHz audio over a wired network. If it fails that test, then the problem is clearly with the AE.

 

Thank you for this wealth of information. I'll post an update after I've had a chance to acquire the new hardware.

 

 

I don't think you're picking up any line noise using the power line adapters because Ethernet is galvanically isolated as long as you use regular cat6 cables like you're using. You can also get Ethernet isolators if you have noise issues. Baaske makes them, but the price has shot up recently.

 

I don't have experience using power line networking with a line conditioner. I suppose it all spends on how the conditioner works. If it has some crazy isolation / separation of some sort it may not even pass the Ethernet signal. You could always get a power strip liberator to give you another outlet on the wall if needed.

 

Correct about the Mac Mini moving to Ethernet as the only change for Config 2.

 

Just because the AE can run dual mode 2.4 and 5 GHz doesn't mean it works best that way. I'm skeptical that you're getting the best performance setup this way. The AEs are really good but they are not enterprise class. I would try everything on one network. You can also download the Xirrus Wi-Fi Inspector to check your network.

[rancew]

Great article!

 

Hope this is an appropriate thread to post/ask about this as it seems a fairly common issue with the whole network audio issue.

 

I'd to get a handle on the whole NAS/Minimserver/Control Point issue.

 

I've got a Synology NAS that's been feeding my dedicated MacMini. I recently managed to get Minimserver and Java installed on it (without even getting my IT guy's help!) and I've been playing around with a Sonore Rendu streamer using the PlugPay iPad app as the control point.

 

Only about a third of my album artwork shows up in PlugPlayer. I downloaded the Lumin app just to see how it looks--much better than PulgPlayer. Scanned my library and same thing--lots of artwork missing.

 

From what I gather these programs first look for artwork in JPEG format embedded within the audio file. Then it's kind of murky to me as to what the program does next to try to find artwork.

 

Part of what's keeping me with iTunes and away from a server/renderer is this whole issue with music files and album art. I'm basically lazy when it comes to managing my files/metadata and don't want to have to spend time messing around with them.

 

So the question is...how can I (EASILY!) get things in order on my NAS with MinimServer so everything shows up as it should using these control point programs? What needs to be done when ripping/downloading new music?

 

[someone suggested a program called Image Fetch, which is designed to scan you existing iTunes library and put album art into a JPEG file that MinimServer will see.

 

So I downloaded Image Fetch but it won't scan my library on the Synology NAS (I have both music files and metadata in the NAS). It looks like it will only scan a library on a local hard drive. And indeed when I download Image Fetch to another computer with a different iTunes library than my main one it will scan it and find all the album art files.

 

So it appears that Image Fetch needs to be installed on the Synology. The only way I'ver ever downloaded a program to the Synology is by using the "Package Center" program on it. Tried to upload it using Package Center from my MacBook but it says "Invalid File Format"]

 

Suggestions??

[MikeJazz]

Great article!

 

So the question is...how can I (EASILY!) get things in order on my NAS with MinimServer so everything shows up as it should using these control point programs? What needs to be done when ripping/downloading new music?

 

Suggestions??

 

I use dbPoweramp to rip and JRiver Media Center to manage metada, and pictures...works well.

On Jriver: options > File location...

On Audio mode select "in the same folder as the file (as Folder.jpg).

When you copy music files to NAS drive the imagine file is not copied at the same time; you can do that with "Save Cover Art to External Location Specified in Options"...

 

Maybe not as easy as you expect...but you are in control...

[Thunder240]

Just a quick update ... I picked up two Netgear XAV5201 powerline 500 starter packs (4 adapters total). I didn't pick up a gigabit switch, since the Airport Express that I've called AE1, which has been serving as my router, is a 2nd gen 802.11n model with two ethernet ports. I was able to get the powerline network up and running, with 1 adapter connected to the LAN port of AE1, 1 adapter connected to my Mac Mini's LAN port, and 1 adapter connected to the renderer's LAN port (which previously was connected to an Airport Express operating in "join an existing network" mode).

 

Unfortunately I was not able to get sufficient throughput to play 96/24 or 192/24 audio files cleanly. No trouble at 48/24 or lower resolution. I noted that the LED on the powerline adapters frequently lit orange rather than green, which indicates low bandwidth. My building was built in 1964, and one of the adapters is on the circuit shared by my refridgerator and my range, so this isn't altogether surprising. My guess is with newer wiring, or if I could avoid the circuit that powers the kitchen, maybe things would be different.

 

I think plan B is going to be upgrading my wifi network to 802.11ac, since Chris had a positive experience with it. I have a few questions about this, but I'll post them on the comments thread that is dedicated to 802.11ac networking for hi res audio, since that seems to be a more appropriate location for them.

 

For others who are considering using a powerline network for DNLA, be aware that the Netgear adapters worked with only 1 of the 4 powerstrips that I tried. (I figured that as long as I had them in my home, I'd test them with and without powerstrips.). The one that was compatible with the powerline adapter was a Belkin 6 plug strip that has no frills. It did not work with a slightly fancier Belkin 8 plug power strip (even when the powerline adapter was the only device plugged into the strip), nor did it work when plugged into a Panamax M4300-PM line conditioner. (Note that the user manual is ambiguous about the user of powerline adapters with powerstrips and line conditioners. In one place it notes that use of a power strip may cause a powerline adapter to not function correctly or to have degraded powerformance. Elsewhere, however, it cautions the user to ensure that powerstrips or line conditioners that are in the signal path should draw no more than 80% of their rated amperage, implying that user of a powerstrip or line conditioner is not a show stopper.)

 

 

I think I've exhausted all possible configurations using my current hardware. I also think that I've pretty much proven that inside my home, 802.11n (or rather, Apple's implementation of 802.11n) isn't capable of handling hi res (92+ kHz) audio. Of course YMMV. I recognize that everyone is gonna have a different set of walls in the way and different sources of noise to contend with. So unless there is a way to configure my Airport network to use 5 GHz only and to disable the 2.4, the next step will involve some new hardware purchases, although before I go out and buy the powerlines I'll probably test the network using the Netgear gateway alone (using ethernet runs from the gateway to the Mac Mini and to the renderer) just to make sure that AE1 is capable of handling 96 and 192 kHz audio over a wired network. If it fails that test, then the problem is clearly with the AE.

 

Thank you for this wealth of information. I'll post an update after I've had a chance to acquire the new hardware.

[ednaz]

Just to add a quick comment. I've got Jriver 20 running on an i7 based server, with my media library internal to it in RAID 1. Network is provided by an Airport Timecapsule. Old DAC didn't handle some resolutions well on USB, so I kept my media server in a convenient location, used a USB to coax converter, and ran the DAC at the end of the 16 foot coax run. The main server is what streams to rendering devices throughout the house and my studio. (Mostly Logitech Transporters and Touches, or JRemote to my iPhone.) I just got a new DAC.

 

The new DAC is purported to run better from USB. I was eager to check it out, without any time to drag out switches and ethernet, so I took an old laptop (Lenovo x201), installed JRiver on it, and linked it to the existing media server's library over wireless, with a short USB run to the DAC. I'm very successfully streaming 24/192 and 24/96 between my media server and the x201 - the DAC is reporting the files' resolution accurately. The media server is on the 2.4ghz part of the network (somehow it got switched over from the 5ghz, which is where I'd isolated all media streaming with the other things we do on the wireless targeted for the 2.4ghz), the x201 on the 5ghz. The streaming worked fine even while my wife was surfing the net and my work laptop was backing up to the Timecapsule. Zero glitches.

 

So, streaming high res can work fine over wireless. I'm not courageous enough to try DSD... OK, maybe not courageous enough just yet. May try it this evening and see what happens. I will say that the guy who manufactured the DAC gives recommended Jriver settings and wherever there's a chance to set a larger buffer or longer pre-buffering, he's recommending the max values, and I know he built a big buffer into the DAC. I did try a couple of the 24/192 files on a thumb drive plugged in locally to the x201, and there's no audible difference - same big and deep soundstage, same crisp pacing.

 

I do intend to get ethernet in play, so I can move the RAID from inside the main server box to a NAS that serves both my wireless streaming server and my primary listening room. But, if I play a DSD 2x and it works fine streaming, maybe not.

[ednaz]

Was streaming DSD 1x and 2x yesterday, wireless between my main music server and the system that's connected to the DAC locally. No problems, other than if my wife fires up the microwave oven...

 

I've got JRiver on the system local to the DAC. It's pointed to the JRiver library on my main music server. Watching the display on the front of my DAC, all coming through properly.

 

I am going to go to a wired setup just because of the microwave oven problem.

[Jumbosausage]

Here's where I get confused, could the media renderer be another small fanless PC running windows for example? what would this small form factor PC need to be a dlna renderer and would there be any disadvantage to this rather than one of the network media players from Naim, Linn etc? I noticed when reading about some of these network players that they have up sampling capabilities i take it this wouldn't be possible on a windows PC?

 

I have a FreeNAS system with all my music stored on it and at present I just hook up my notebook to the system downstairs when I want to play from NAS. This laptop has a cifs shared drive to the NAS. I'm wanting to get away from this and be able to control everything from a tablet but I'm unsure if i need to buy a network player or if i could save a few £'s by making a small form factor PC.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Here's where I get confused, could the media renderer be another small fanless PC running windows for example? what would this small form factor PC need to be a dlna renderer and would there be any disadvantage to this rather than one of the network media players from Naim, Linn etc? I noticed when reading about some of these network players that they have up sampling capabilities i take it this wouldn't be possible on a windows PC?

 

I have a FreeNAS system with all my music stored on it and at present I just hook up my notebook to the system downstairs when I want to play from NAS. This laptop has a cifs shared drive to the NAS. I'm wanting to get away from this and be able to control everything from a tablet but I'm unsure if i need to buy a network player or if i could save a few £'s by making a small form factor PC.

Many things can be renderers including a Windows PC. You can setup JRiver to be a renderer very easily.

[Jumbosausage]

Many things can be renderers including a Windows PC. You can setup JRiver to be a renderer very easily.

 

Currently as mentioned I'm just connecting up a laptop to my DAC in the living room when I want to access the media on the NAS but what I'd like to do is install JRiver/Foobar inside a virtual machine on my Hyper-V server. That could run 24/7 and act as the media server. So if I built a small windows PC and connected that to my DAC in the living room I'd just need to install JRiver on that machine and configure it as a renderer? Once configured I could leave the renderer PC headless and just control everything from a tablet which would connect to the VM media server?

 

I've have a powerline connection in the living room so I would hook up the pc to that but would this setup work via DLNA if setup as outlined? I'm fairly new to JRiver and I haven't played about with it much at all.

 

Great guide by the way, and thanks for putting it together, it's really helpful.

[The Computer Audiophile]

Currently as mentioned I'm just connecting up a laptop to my DAC in the living room when I want to access the media on the NAS but what I'd like to do is install JRiver/Foobar inside a virtual machine on my Hyper-V server. That could run 24/7 and act as the media server. So if I built a small windows PC and connected that to my DAC in the living room I'd just need to install JRiver on that machine and configure it as a renderer? Once configured I could leave the renderer PC headless and just control everything from a tablet which would connect to the VM media server?

 

I've have a powerline connection in the living room so I would hook up the pc to that but would this setup work via DLNA if setup as outlined? I'm fairly new to JRiver and I haven't played about with it much at all.

 

Great guide by the way, and thanks for putting it together, it's really helpful.

hi jumbo - Yes, it should work exactly like you expect. Plus, you can use JRemote on a tablet to control playback as well.

[Jumbosausage]

Great stuff I'll have to give this a go then, thanks. One last question, as you can probably gather I'm only just getting into audiophile grade equipment and I haven't really played about with DSD files or even anything above the CD's that I ripped into 16 bit 44.1 khz flac files before putting them onto my NAS. I see that some of these network media players available from the likes of Linn and Naim state that they upsample all files to ( i forget the numbers) but would this be a negative for going the route I plan?

[The Computer Audiophile]

Great stuff I'll have to give this a go then, thanks. One last question, as you can probably gather I'm only just getting into audiophile grade equipment and I haven't really played about with DSD files or even anything above the CD's that I ripped into 16 bit 44.1 khz flac files before putting them onto my NAS. I see that some of these network media players available from the likes of Linn and Naim state that they upsample all files to ( i forget the numbers) but would this be a negative for going the route I plan?

Nope, not a negative.

[Jumbosausage]

Thanks Chris.

[Thunder240]

I'm still having issues streaming hi-res (96/24 and 192/24) music to a DNLA renderer over wireless. It sounds choppy, like sound is dropping every other tenth of a second. At first I thought it was my network, but at this point I'm sure I have enough available bandwidth. I've also tried several different servers, including setups in which the library is local to the server. I eventually concluded its an issue with my renderer, a Sony BD S580 Blu-Ray player, after I had the brilliant idea of loading hi-res music onto a flash and trying to play it direct over USB (same choppy playback). I really should have started with that test!

 

Anyhow, I need a new renderer. The rub is that although I could live without the ability to play Blu-Ray media, I want the ability to stream both audio and video, I want it in one device, (because of limited inputs on my DAC as well as limited power outlets), and I'd prefer not to use a PC. The reason for preferring not to use a PC is that in my experience video streaming from Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, etc, always has performed better over dedicated streaming devices I've used than it has from inside a Windows web browser. Lastly, the renderer needs to have a digital coax out (my DAC's optical input is already taken by my TV, and in any case, I prefer digital coax because it's lower jitter).

 

From the point of view of features offered, the Sony BD player was perfect. It met all the criteria listed above, and as a bonus it was cheap. Only trouble is, it won't play hi-res music properly (though it has no trouble playing the DTS-HD audio track from a BD).

 

Any other ideas for renderers that I should check out? I think 500 is my upper limit on price. Above that, and I'll suck it up and build a PC like Jumbo is doing.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Jumbosausage]

I ended up going for this build, it's been perfect so far.

 

http://www.scan.co.uk/3xs/configurator/custom-built-ready-to-ship-intel-nuc-pc-3xs-n5-silent-fanless-pc-intel-core-i3

[ednaz]

I'm still having issues streaming hi-res (96/24 and 192/24) music to a DNLA renderer over wireless. It sounds choppy, like sound is dropping every other tenth of a second. At first I thought it was my network, but at this point I'm sure I have enough available bandwidth. I've also tried several different servers, including setups in which the library is local to the server. I eventually concluded its an issue with my renderer, a Sony BD S580 Blu-Ray player, after I had the brilliant idea of loading hi-res music onto a flash and trying to play it direct over USB (same choppy playback). I really should have started with that test!

 

Anyhow, I need a new renderer. The rub is that although I could live without the ability to play Blu-Ray media, I want the ability to stream both audio and video, I want it in one device, (because of limited inputs on my DAC as well as limited power outlets), and I'd prefer not to use a PC. The reason for preferring not to use a PC is that in my experience video streaming from Netflix, Amazon, Hulu, HBO, etc, always has performed better over dedicated streaming devices I've used than it has from inside a Windows web browser. Lastly, the renderer needs to have a digital coax out (my DAC's optical input is already taken by my TV, and in any case, I prefer digital coax because it's lower jitter).

 

From the point of view of features offered, the Sony BD player was perfect. It met all the criteria listed above, and as a bonus it was cheap. Only trouble is, it won't play hi-res music properly (though it has no trouble playing the DTS-HD audio track from a BD).

 

Any other ideas for renderers that I should check out? I think 500 is my upper limit on price. Above that, and I'll suck it up and build a PC like Jumbo is doing.

 

Many thanks!

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

I was using an old very small IBM laptop (pre-Lenovo ownership) with JRiver on it, as my wireless network renderer, getting data from our main media computer, which is a 4 core i7 beast. It would sell, used, for about $250. Very successful streaming up to 24/192, and 2x DSD. I chose to stream on the 5 ghz band - for whatever reason, if we ran the microwave when on the 2.4 ghz wifi band, we'd get horrible interference, but on 5ghz, none. I'd tried using a wired network NAS to the renderer, but for whatever reason, I could never get the PC to pull the data smoothly - I got dropouts using the wired NAS, but none if I was streaming wireless. Go figure.

 

There are a number of really inexpensive small size PCs - Acer Revo 1 is one that I was looking at - that come in lower cost than a build of something similar. I was going to swap out the laptop for one of those, since it would fit more nicely on the equipment rack, but decided to try a fiber optic USB cable from my main media computer (which streams to many wireless endpoints in our house, which we use for ripping, buying and downloading) to the DAC. We were streaming because to just run USB, it'd be about an 18 foot run, and I tested with regular USB - it was awful - and the wireless stream sounded better. I can tell you that the fiber optic USB cable sounds wonderful, and where wireless streaming broke down above 24/192, the fiber optic USB does not. One fewer components sucking electricity in my house since no separate renderer is needed. The cost is a fraction of building or buying a renderer.

 

So, besides a build, there are very decent pre-built solutions. Because I couldn't go to Linux - Exasound Asio runs on Windows or OS X, and I was just told that there's no longer any intent to release a Linux driver - the most expensive single component for a build was buying Windows. Buying something pre-built and loaded came in almost exactly less than a build by the cost of me buying a Windows OEM license.

[JJHUNSECKER]

This information is SO valuable. I've been looking into this stuff for a few months and this piece puts it all together. THANK YOU. Your time and work is appreciated.

[mkh0151]

Hi All,

 

Similar problem: iTunes / OS X 10.10.5 / macbook air/ Virgin wireless modem / Twonky / NAD C446

 

My problem is that I don't use twonky to listen to music because of the UI, which I find incredibly bad.

What should I replace it with that keeps the function of being able to select music using the UI on the laptop, rather than using the remote and the LCD screen of the NAD C446?

I have tried to sort this myself but It is the functionality of controlling the media player from the laptops UI that appeals.

Please advise.

Many thanks for everyone who has spent their time on this thread trying to help us newbies.

Apologies if there is any missing information here or anything done against protocol.

PS very limited funds so if there is frees software to solve this that would be great.

Regards,

Mark

[The Computer Audiophile]

This post will seem out of context for many. Please ignore if you want.

 

 

I'm going to start a new forum thread for this discussion. It's better to have it in the network forum area than below this article.

 

Here's a link to the discussion @Yorkie and @esmit

 

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f22-networking-networked-audio-and-streaming/new-isp-network-problems-audio-device-help-needed-30642/

[Darryl R]

FWIW all these years later, in Linux, Twonky came right up and ran without a hitch but Asset was missing files and quirky to start and stop.  I'm using it with the dCS Network Bridge control app and I only need my file structure for metadata.  Minimserver is nice too, but the Java dependency is a hassle in Linux, at least for me (OpenJDK was crashing on startup and Oracle install instructions were lacking).

[Jeremy Anderson]

@The Computer Audiophile the images on this amazing resource article seem to have broken   Is there a way you can repair them? Thanks!

[The Computer Audiophile]

7 minutes ago, Jeremy Anderson said:

@The Computer Audiophile the images on this amazing resource article seem to have broken   Is there a way you can repair them? Thanks!

I’ll fix them soon. Thanks for letting me know. 

[Crarion]

What an immensely helpful resource. I'm so glad I found this site. Thank you!