Article: The Complete Guide To HiFi UPnP / DLNA Network Audio

[reverendo]

Just wanted to let you guys know that after quite a lot of tweaking I got my Resolution Audio Cantata working wirelessly with UPnP. Here's my chain:

Win7 64 bit PC (on 24/7)>foobar2000 UPnP server (from bubbleguuum)>Netgear R4500 (router)>Netgear WNCE4004 (wireless adapter)>RA Cantata

I'm using UPnPlay as Controller.

This way I'm able to use it similar to the way I've been using my SB Touch.

Now I'll compare with the Touch to see which of both fares better. Will be using stock USB cable on Touch and Rosewill Cat7 ethernet cable on Cantata.

Let's see how that goes.

Best regards

[Superdad]

Just wanted to let you guys know that after quite a lot of tweaking I got my Resolution Audio Cantata working wirelessly with UPnP. Here's my chain:

Win7 64 bit PC (on 24/7)>foobar2000 UPnP server (from bubbleguuum)>Netgear R4500 (router)>Netgear WNCE4004 (wireless adapter)>RA Cantata

I'm using UPnPlay as Controller.

This way I'm able to use it similar to the way I've been using my SB Touch.

Now I'll compare with the Touch to see which of both fares better. Will be using stock USB cable on Touch and Rosewill Cat7 ethernet cable on Cantata.

Let's see how that goes.

Best regards

 

 

I look forward to hearing your impressions! I know the Cantata is a great DAC/CDP just on its own. Jeff did s terrific job with it. And its about the nicest looking PCM1704 DACs still made. I tried to get a friend of mine to buy a Cantata. Would have been perfect for his set-up.

 

I probably asked you this before, but have you tried it with the RA Pont Neuf USB>Ethernet adapter?

[wappinghigh]

Oppo can be added to the list of Media render's Chris. I'm doing it right now serving MinimServer via plugplayer. And that includes multichannel. Not DSD though. Wap.

[Bens993]

How is he getting upnp with an apple router.. I just installed a AirPort Extreme ac to replace my ea4200 linksys and my 24/192 receiver quit finding my synology?? how did you configure the airport.

 

 

 

 

 

Nice and concise guide Chris. Sure beats piecing together the puzzle from Wikipedia and various UPnP/DLNA product vendors!

 

A few random questions:

 

1) Is the Cisco SG200-26 switch you recommend a fanless design? I am looking for a modestly priced managed gigabit switch to replace my old Asante 10/100. But it has to reside in my studio so no fans allowed.

 

2) You stated that "A recent update to the JRemote application enables an iPad or iPhone to become a lossless Media Renderer by streaming audio from the JRMC Media Server directly to the iDevice without transcoding into MP3."

I used to have fun sometimes hooking up a Devilsound DAC that Jonathan gave me to my first gen iPad with the Camera Connection Kit (then an iOS update made the iPad query USB power usage and reject the Devilsound; but it still can work with a powered hub).

If JRemote is allowing iPads to act as a renderer--accepting files up to what resolution?--then how about trying to run that out to a DAC via the CCK USB adapter? That could be VERY cool. An iPad as Control Point and Renderer feeding a high-end DAC!

 

3) It seems a shame that Apple keeps locking down the DAAP protocol and keeping out third parties, because iTunes is still one of the best library curation/player interfaces. And according to your survey of UPnP AV Media Server software, solutions for OS X are still very thin on the ground. Any thoughts on this, other than waiting for JRiver Mac to mature a bit?

 

4) Does the Linn Songbox/Kinsky combo work only with Linn renderers? I ask because they have an OS X version and the interface is probably pretty refined.

 

Thanks again,

ALEX

[radiomir]

I'm new to this, and am struggling to understand why you would need a separate media renderer (as shown above) if you were using a media server connected to a DAC.

 

My ideal system would allow me to manage my library from my iMac using either iTunes+ Audirvana or JRiver for mac, but play the music in a different room, hence the need for a server setup. JRiver would be great if I could confirm that I could get JRiver for mac to sync with iTunes so I could in turn use iTunes to sync with my iDevices (I know there is MCiS for PC version of JRiver, but don't know of anything for Mac). JRiver is appealing to me because I would also like use my iPhone to pull bitperfect music from the media server to listen through various DAC/headphone amps that I would use throughout my home when I wansn't in my main listening room. I think JRiver offers this for iphone capability for PC but I am not sure about mac. Perhaps I could use iTunes home sharing for this function, but I don't know if this is limited in sample rate. Another consideration is that I would like to manage two separate audio libraries (one for me and one for my wife), but have it be easy at listening end to pull from either library.

 

I have a budget of around $3500 for any combination of NAS, Server, Streamer, and/or DAC (my current Wadia 170 ipod transport plus Cambridge DacMagic DAC will be replaced). At first I was thinking of setting up a NAS and buying either a Mac Mini or something like a Linn Majik DSM to stream to my DAC. I then started thinking of building my own music server using CAPS Zuma as a starting point (I've built a gaming PC before), but based on the setups listed in this article, it appears I would still need a renderer (like a Linn Majik DSM or Naim streamer). Why is this? I would gladly pay for a renderer/network streamer if it had a quality built in DAC, but otherwise I thought I could get better sound buying a quality DAC and using Mac Mini or building a CAPS-like audio only pc/server.

 

Any thoughts? Also, sorry for the long post. I've been reading this and other sites for a while now and figured I could ask small questions all over or give the big picture in one place. By the way, my amp is the integrated PrimaLuna Dialogue Two and I will soon be replacing my NHT Classic Three speakers with Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, GoldenEar Triton Two, PSB Imagine T2, Revel Performa3 F206, or Nola Contenders - as soon as I can decide.

[The Computer Audiophile]

I'm new to this, and am struggling to understand why you would need a separate media renderer (as shown above) if you were using a media server connected to a DAC.

 

My ideal system would allow me to manage my library from my iMac using either iTunes+ Audirvana or JRiver for mac, but play the music in a different room, hence the need for a server setup. JRiver would be great if I could confirm that I could get JRiver for mac to sync with iTunes so I could in turn use iTunes to sync with my iDevices (I know there is MCiS for PC version of JRiver, but don't know of anything for Mac). JRiver is appealing to me because I would also like use my iPhone to pull bitperfect music from the media server to listen through various DAC/headphone amps that I would use throughout my home when I wansn't in my main listening room. I think JRiver offers this for iphone capability for PC but I am not sure about mac. Perhaps I could use iTunes home sharing for this function, but I don't know if this is limited in sample rate. Another consideration is that I would like to manage two separate audio libraries (one for me and one for my wife), but have it be easy at listening end to pull from either library.

 

I have a budget of around $3500 for any combination of NAS, Server, Streamer, and/or DAC (my current Wadia 170 ipod transport plus Cambridge DacMagic DAC will be replaced). At first I was thinking of setting up a NAS and buying either a Mac Mini or something like a Linn Majik DSM to stream to my DAC. I then started thinking of building my own music server using CAPS Zuma as a starting point (I've built a gaming PC before), but based on the setups listed in this article, it appears I would still need a renderer (like a Linn Majik DSM or Naim streamer). Why is this? I would gladly pay for a renderer/network streamer if it had a quality built in DAC, but otherwise I thought I could get better sound buying a quality DAC and using Mac Mini or building a CAPS-like audio only pc/server.

 

Any thoughts? Also, sorry for the long post. I've been reading this and other sites for a while now and figured I could ask small questions all over or give the big picture in one place. By the way, my amp is the integrated PrimaLuna Dialogue Two and I will soon be replacing my NHT Classic Three speakers with Sonus Faber Venere 2.5, GoldenEar Triton Two, PSB Imagine T2, Revel Performa3 F206, or Nola Contenders - as soon as I can decide.

Hi Radiomir - I'm not certain what you're asking but with a few back and forth comments I'm sure we'll get this figured out for you.

 

You have to have some kind of computer, whether that's a NAS or full computer, for playback. You can stream directly from a NAS to a renderer that contains a DAC or just digital to digital conversion. Or, you can use a direct connection to your DAC from a computer.

 

 

You don't need a separate renderer if as you said, "you were using a media server connected to a DAC." Renderers come into play when streaming audio over Ethernet or WiFi.

[radiomir]

Hello and thanks for the response. I guess I am confused because all of the systems outlined in this article show a media server (either NAS with server software or CAPS Topanga) physically connected to a media renderer (Linn picture). I understand why you would need a media renderer in System 2 because there must be something to process the signal from media storage and I'm guessing the NAS lacks enough processing power to handle server and rendering capabilities (and also probably most NAS is not set up with physically pass a decent signal directly to a DAC (Is this correct?). However, I don't quite understand why, if there is a CAPS Topanga (or a Mac Mini, or any other such computer), there also needs to be a separate media renderer like the Linn (giving you two computers, the Topanga and the Linn). What purpose does the media renderer serve in this case?

[The Computer Audiophile]

I guess I am confused because all of the systems outlined in this article show a media server (either NAS with server software or CAPS Topanga) physically connected to a media renderer (Linn picture).

 

Connected to the same network with an Ethernet cable, not directly connected to the renderer.

 

 

 

 

I understand why you would need a media renderer in System 2 because there must be something to process the signal from media storage and I'm guessing the NAS lacks enough processing power to handle server and rendering capabilities (and also probably most NAS is not set up with physically pass a decent signal directly to a DAC (Is this correct?).

 

You need a renderer to reproduce sound. A NAS has no speakers and no Digital to Analog Converter. A NAS can be connected directly to a USB DAC, but the results are not good.

 

 

 

 

 

However, I don't quite understand why, if there is a CAPS Topanga (or a Mac Mini, or any other such computer), there also needs to be a separate media renderer like the Linn (giving you two computers, the Topanga and the Linn). What purpose does the media renderer serve in this case?

 

You either need a DAC connected to the Topanga or you need a renderer like the Linn to convert digital audio into analog sound.

 

 

Are you getting confused as to why I use both a NAS and a Windows computer to feed files to a renderer? I use a NAS for its large storage capacity and a PC for its much better DLNA / UPnP software. If I connect a DAC to the PC it's no longer a DLNA / UPnP based solution rather its just a PC with USB DAC. Sending the audio over Ethernet to the renderer makes it a DLNA / UPnP solution and the user receives all the benefits of such a solution.

[radiomir]

 

You either need a DAC connected to the Topanga or you need a renderer like the Linn to convert digital audio into analog sound.

 

 

Ok, this what I wanted to confirm, that a renderer is unnecessary if you have the Topanga (or other PC) connected to a DAC.

 

The setup I was imagining was a NAS set up as a DLNA/UPnp server connected to an Airport Extreme in one room; then in a different room having a CAPS or Mac Mini in my listening room connected to another Airport Extreme and acting as a streamer, which would then output to a dac, and then on to amplification. I realize now that this is essentially your system 2, except I am using two wireless routers instead of direct ethernet connection and I would be using a PC instead of an renderer like the Linn (which is just an audio specific pc built by an audio company anyway). Also, the PC in my proposed setup would not acting as a server (the NAS would). And so the downside of this, assuming I cannot run JRiver on a NAS, is that without a PC media server, I would be limited to inferior media server software - hence, most of your systems have both a server pc and a renderer. As far as DACs are concerned, if I went with a renderer, the renderer would have a quality built-in DAC or if not, I could bypass that duty to an external DAC. If I didn't use a renderer, I would need an external DAC because a Mac Mini or Topanga's DAC capabilities are not adequate for this application.

 

So, assuming I have this straight, I guess I'm left with these questions:

 

1. Are there any sonic benefits to using a renderer instead of a Mac Mini or custom built PC connected to a DAC? Obviously this depends highly on the quality of the components, but is there a general consensus that one method is better all other things being equal?

 

2. How are the built-in DAC capabilites of renderers in general? Is it more cost effective to spend money on a a renderer, or get a cheaper renderer and a good DAC.

 

3. Based on my original post, which outlined what I want to do with my system, are there any recommendations on how to setup my system? To recap, I want this solution to allow me to:

 

• Store music files on a network, to be managed by a computer that will not be in the audio chain
  
  • Management will be done by iTunes or JRiver for mac on multiple libraries (one for me, one for my wife, maybe one that includes holiday songs)
    
  • If management is by JRiver, I want libraries to sync between JRiver and iTunes, so I can still add music to iDevices
    
  • Storage can be by NAS or PC server + external attached storage
    

   

  [*]Files can be accessed by at least one main room media renderer of some sort (whether a custom PC, Mac Mini, or audio company built renderer like Linn Majik or Bryston BDP) - perhaps more rooms later.

  [*]HD Files can be accessed over network by an iphone to pass along to portable DAC/headphone amp(s).

  [*]Control of playback is easy through iPhone and/or iPad

 

Hopefully this is all possible. I am eager to get this figured out so I can just listen and stop thinking about it. Again thanks for the help.

[The Computer Audiophile]

The setup I was imagining was a NAS set up as a DLNA/UPnp server connected to an Airport Extreme in one room; then in a different room having a CAPS or Mac Mini in my listening room connected to another Airport Extreme and acting as a streamer, which would then output to a dac, and then on to amplification.

I would not use the NAS as a DLNA / UPnP server in this situation. Just map a drive to your NAS from the PC and use iTunes to JRiver Media Center to serve the library even though the music is stored on the NAS.

[radiomir]

I would not use the NAS as a DLNA / UPnP server in this situation. Just map a drive to your NAS from the PC and use iTunes to JRiver Media Center to serve the library even though the music is stored on the NAS.

 

Would both the media management computer and the PC have libraries mapped to the same files on the NAS, then? Which one is acting as the server? Also, I am not sure what you mean by "use iTunes to Jriver" to serve the library. Was that supposed to be an "or"? At any rate, I don't want to have to go turn on my media management computer (an iMac in a separate room) every time I want to listen in the main room or use the iphone and headphone amp/dac combo mentioned above. I'm not sure the setup I originally imagined (which you quoted in your recent response) is what I really want. Probably my last response was too long to read through all the way. Sorry! If you can get through it, though, I'd love some recommendations!

[The Computer Audiophile]

Would both the media management computer and the PC have libraries mapped to the same files on the NAS, then? Which one is acting as the server? Also, I am not sure what you mean by "use iTunes to Jriver" to serve the library. Was that supposed to be an "or"? At any rate, I don't want to have to go turn on my media management computer (an iMac in a separate room) every time I want to listen in the main room or use the iphone and headphone amp/dac combo mentioned above. I'm not sure the setup I originally imagined (which you quoted in your recent response) is what I really want. Probably my last response was too long to read through all the way. Sorry! If you can get through it, though, I'd love some recommendations!

 

Supposed to be the word OR not TO.

 

The PC is the media management computer with the main JRiver library. The files reside on the NAS as a storage device only. You could share the files on the NAS via some integrated NAS package if you want.

 

You can have as many computers as you want map a drive to the NAS if needed.

[wappinghigh]

I've just got onto a "System 4" type of setup. Running the main Zone OF JRiver on OSX on a Mac Pro. Thanks to a heads up from Paul R. Even got JRiver streaming to on the fly down converted DSD and 24bit files to my Sonos Zones. Gee.. does this have potential!!!

[riotubes]

When using JRemote on iPad, does the use of JRemote or the iPad impose a bit depth/sampling rate limit to what can be streamed (i.e. 24/96kHZ for example) or can this combo be used to stream higher sampling rates?

[The Computer Audiophile]

When using JRemote on iPad, does the use of JRemote or the iPad impose a bit depth/sampling rate limit to what can be streamed (i.e. 24/96kHZ for example) or can this combo be used to stream higher sampling rates?

If streaming to a DLNA renderer there is no limit. If streaming back to the iPad I believe JRemote sets a limit.

[pdf1964]

I've just got onto a "System 4" type of setup. Running the main Zone OF JRiver on OSX on a Mac Pro. Thanks to a heads up from Paul R. Even got JRiver streaming to on the fly down converted DSD and 24bit files to my Sonos Zones. Gee.. does this have potential!!!

 

I am very interested in how you were able to convert DSD files on the fly via DLNA from jRiver. My understanding is that you had to be direct connected via ASIO or WASAPI in order to accomplish this.

 

Thanks,

Paul

[Yann]

Hi there!

 

Very nice article, it helped me understand the principles of DLNA a lot better!

I however have a question; all the media renderers mentioned here have a build in amplifier (or am I wrong here?), but I have a perfect stereo at home with an aux input so I'd rather not buy a renderer with an amplifier. Is there any media renderer that would fit in the setups mentioned above that I could plug into the aux input of my stereo?

[marantzfan]

Wow, for someone just getting into this, your guide is quite a wealth of information. It looks like I have a lot of reading in my future.

[Thunder240]

This is a fantastic article!

 

I'm wondering if someone can help me figure it why I can't play 96k or greater audio over my dnla network? Specifically, hi res audio playback leads to a loud pulsating sound. Musical tones from the tracks are still audible, but the pulsating noise that is on top of is so loud that the tracks are entirely unlistenable.

 

Here are the specifics of my system:

 

Mac Mini with FireWire 800 external hard drive storing my music library, running OS X 10.6.8

 

JRiver for Mac 19, configured as a dnla server, serving music as PCM 24 bit

 

Home network comprised of 3 Airport expresses (offering both 2,4 and 5 GHz networks). One AE is connected by CAT6 to fiber optic modem. The other two AEs are configured to extend the 2.4 GHz network

 

Renderer is a Sony BDP-S580 connected to one of the two daughter AEs via CAT6 Ethernet. Sony device's interface serves as the control point.

 

I've done the following already to try to isolate the problem:

 

- pause music, wait a minute, then unpause. No effect on 192 kHz tracks. 96khz tracks offer a couple seconds of clean playback (< 5 secs) and then pulsing resumes

 

- Reconfigure the daughter AE that connects the Sony renderer as a network device (no longer extending the WIFI network). Problem remains.

 

- Test the renderer using a USB flash loaded with hi-res music. It plays the music fine, no pulsating sound.

 

- Try Twonky in place of JRiver on my Mac Mini as the server software. Problem remains.

 

- use the Apple Airport Diagnostic tool to search for a channel with minimal noise, and configure all AEs to use that channel. Problem remains

 

- disconnect the renderer from the AE, configure it for a wifi connection on both 2.4 and 5 GHz nets. Problem remains.

 

- configure JRiver to stream audio as original rather than PCM 2.4. Renderer does not support ALAC or FLAC playback. Problem remains when playing aiff files.

 

- playing 48 kHz 24 bit audio. This is interesting. Pulsing is still present but noticeably less than with higher res. pausing a track for a minute or so allows for clean playback for the remainder of the track (presumably because the track has bed sufficiently buffered)

 

 

The renderer has no problem playing uncompressed CD quality audio over the dnla net.

 

I strongly suspect the problem is with my network configuration. However, I haven't been able to verify this because I don't have an Ethernet cable that's long enough to facilitate testing other configurations like connecting the renderer to the parent AE. But even if I did have such a cable, my wife would never let me snake Ethernet all over the house, not even to connect the AEs together. In-wall Ethernet runs might be possible, but the cost would be steep.

 

Any ideas? First, are there some other possibilities that don't involve reconfiguring the network? Second, assuming it is the network, any idea how I can get better performance without using Ethernet runs? Is there a magic setting I can change to allow the AEs to pass clean hi res audio?

 

Thanks!

[Thunder240]

Yann, from personal experience, both the Sony BDP S580 and Sony PS3 work fine as renderers, and neither has a built in amp. Either can be connected to a receiver or preamp. The PS3 does not support any hi res audio format, however. And as you can tell from my earlier post, the BDP S580 is designed support hi res PCM audio playback, although I'm having other issues getting that hi res playback to work that may or may not involve the renderer (jury is still out on the cause of the issue). Notwithstanding the limitations on hi res playback, I'm perfectly happy with the BDP S580. Built-in control point interface could be a little nicer, but playback quality is great. I output using SPIDF to my stereo's digital preamp (an Emotiva XDA-1).

 

Hi there!

 

Very nice article, it helped me understand the principles of DLNA a lot better!

I however have a question; all the media renderers mentioned here have a build in amplifier (or am I wrong here?), but I have a perfect stereo at home with an aux input so I'd rather not buy a renderer with an amplifier. Is there any media renderer that would fit in the setups mentioned above that I could plug into the aux input of my stereo?

[Priaptor]

I am in the process of demoing the MSB UMT+ which uses an OPPO 103 as the renderer and would love to know if anyone has ever gotten an OPPO 103 to work gapless. The inability to do gapless is a non-starter for me, regardless of how good the UMT+ sounds.

[The Computer Audiophile]

This is a fantastic article!

 

I'm wondering if someone can help me figure it why I can't play 96k or greater audio over my dnla network? Specifically, hi res audio playback leads to a loud pulsating sound. Musical tones from the tracks are still audible, but the pulsating noise that is on top of is so loud that the tracks are entirely unlistenable.

 

Here are the specifics of my system:

 

Mac Mini with FireWire 800 external hard drive storing my music library, running OS X 10.6.8

 

JRiver for Mac 19, configured as a dnla server, serving music as PCM 24 bit

 

Home network comprised of 3 Airport expresses (offering both 2,4 and 5 GHz networks). One AE is connected by CAT6 to fiber optic modem. The other two AEs are configured to extend the 2.4 GHz network

 

Renderer is a Sony BDP-S580 connected to one of the two daughter AEs via CAT6 Ethernet. Sony device's interface serves as the control point.

 

I've done the following already to try to isolate the problem:

 

- pause music, wait a minute, then unpause. No effect on 192 kHz tracks. 96khz tracks offer a couple seconds of clean playback (< 5 secs) and then pulsing resumes

 

- Reconfigure the daughter AE that connects the Sony renderer as a network device (no longer extending the WIFI network). Problem remains.

 

- Test the renderer using a USB flash loaded with hi-res music. It plays the music fine, no pulsating sound.

 

- Try Twonky in place of JRiver on my Mac Mini as the server software. Problem remains.

 

- use the Apple Airport Diagnostic tool to search for a channel with minimal noise, and configure all AEs to use that channel. Problem remains

 

- disconnect the renderer from the AE, configure it for a wifi connection on both 2.4 and 5 GHz nets. Problem remains.

 

- configure JRiver to stream audio as original rather than PCM 2.4. Renderer does not support ALAC or FLAC playback. Problem remains when playing aiff files.

 

- playing 48 kHz 24 bit audio. This is interesting. Pulsing is still present but noticeably less than with higher res. pausing a track for a minute or so allows for clean playback for the remainder of the track (presumably because the track has bed sufficiently buffered)

 

 

The renderer has no problem playing uncompressed CD quality audio over the dnla net.

 

I strongly suspect the problem is with my network configuration. However, I haven't been able to verify this because I don't have an Ethernet cable that's long enough to facilitate testing other configurations like connecting the renderer to the parent AE. But even if I did have such a cable, my wife would never let me snake Ethernet all over the house, not even to connect the AEs together. In-wall Ethernet runs might be possible, but the cost would be steep.

 

Any ideas? First, are there some other possibilities that don't involve reconfiguring the network? Second, assuming it is the network, any idea how I can get better performance without using Ethernet runs? Is there a magic setting I can change to allow the AEs to pass clean hi res audio?

 

Thanks!

You fighting an uphill battle trying high resolution via wireless on AE units. I suggest moving the components into one room to wire them with Ethernet for testing. I'd never extend a wireless 802.11n network. Half your bandwidth is lost by the extension.

 

Can an you draw a crude diagram if your network?

[Thunder240]

I didn't realize that there's such a loss of bandwidth using "extend a network" mode on the AE! I'll borrow a long ethernet cable from someone for testing, as suggested.

 

In the mean time, I did some minor reconfiguring. As I previously described, only the 2.4 GHz net is extended. However, now AE#3 joins AE#1's 5 GHz network as a network device, and the Sony renderer plugs into AE#3 using ethernet. The Mac Mini server connects to AE#1 on the 5 GHz network. All of my non-media work is done on the 2.4 GHz network, which is the network that is extended by AE#2, while the 5 GHz network un-extended network is used for DNLA as well streaming other media to the Sony device.

 

I imagine that under this configuration the 802.11n 5GHz net ought to be able operate at high bandwidth. The good news is that I can play 44.1 kHz 24 bit music with no pulsing. The bad news is that 96 kHz music (in either 16 or 24 bit-depths) still gives me the awful pulsing sound. The weired thing is that when I use the Sony device to stream Netflix, it reports bandwidths of 7-10 Mbps, and the stream looks great, no choppiness. This ought to be more than enough bandwidth for a 96 kHz 24 bit audio stream (which uncompressed is ~ 4.8 MBps).

 

Does this make any sense?

 

See diagram of current configuration:

[The Computer Audiophile]

Terrific, thanks for the diagram. Now I have a much better picture of what's going on.

 

To be honest I don't thing you can ever make this setup stream 96 kHz content without issues. Neflix says what it says about bandwidth, but keep in mind it's very unscientific and Netflix movies stream at incredibly lossy rates. I use Netflix as well and laugh at its Super HD label. If you want apples to apples you could convert your 96 or 192 content to very lossy MP3 and I bet it would stream just fine. It's still 96 or 192 but most of the information is gone. That's how Netflix works.

 

Looking at your network most engineers would say it must work because the bandwidth is there (1+1=2 type of thing). However, in practice you're fighting an uphill battle. Variables like running both 2.4 and 5 GHz network on one AE, Mac connected via wireless, and Renderer connected via wireless can't help the situation.

 

Edit: Just looked again and see the renderer is running via Ethernet to the AE. This is good but doesn't change my opinion.

 

Here is what I would do in your situation.

 

I'm guessing your AE1 is acting as the router between the WAN and LAN. That's not ideal but probably not a show stopper if it's got two Ethernet ports.

 

1. Purchase a real Ethernet switch like the Netgear GS108 or GS105. Place this on the LAN port of your AE1.

 

2. Purchase Neatgear XAVB5101 power line networking units to connect the Mac Mini and Renderer to the switch via wired Ethernet. I believe you can run a one-to-many configuration where you have a single XAVB5101 at the switch connecting to two XAVB5101s (one at Mac and one at renderer).

 

 

Another way to try this is to connect the Mac and Renderer via Ethernet to an AE directly and let the AE handle all the wireless traffic. It sound weird but the wireless implementations in computers and renderers are usually subpar compared to dedicated wireless devices. You can also look at my article about Airport Extremes using 802.11ac. There is a configuration similar to what I described above that would work for you. it all comes down to what you want to spend to make it work.

[Thunder240]

Chris, thank you very much for these two suggested configurations. Both make sense to me, and I see no reason I couldn't try them both out, especially if I buy the components off Amazon so that I can return if I'm not satisfied.

 

Let me ask you a few questions about them:

 

- Under configuration 1, I'm passing digital audio through the power lines in my wall rather than over wifi. How likely am I to pick up line noise? Is it fair to assume that any line noise I pick up is less than I'm currently getting on the 5 GHz RF band? I imagine with or without line noise, you believe the sound quality is still superior to downsampling my music to 48 kHz, or else you wouldn't have bothered to suggest it!

 

- Would it work to plug one of those XAVB5101 devices into an a power line conditioner? Even if the conditioner doesn't do anything to improve the signal, it would actually be easier for me this way, at least in the room where the renderer is located, since I already have a Panamax in my audio rig, and I don't have any spare wall outlets in that room.

 

- As you noted in your EDIT, my renderer is currently running off Ethernet into AE3. So the only difference between the current configuration and configuration 2 is that I now run the Mac Mini off Ethernet into one if the AEs, correct?

 

- I don't actually have a need for the 2.4 GHz network. I set up two networks because I thought I'd be better off isolating my media traffic from my non-media traffic. If you think it would actually improve performance to put all traffic (media and non-media) onto a single network, either 2.4 or 5, I can do that, except that I'd still need to run AE2 in "extend a network" mode. Assuming for a moment that I don't end up running configuration 1, do you think I'm better off keeping two simultaneous wifi networks and running the DNLA on the un-extended wifi network, or consolidating to a single extended network?

 

Thanks again. This is incredibly helpful.

 

Terrific, thanks for the diagram. Now I have a much better picture of what's going on.

 

To be honest I don't thing you can ever make this setup stream 96 kHz content without issues. Neflix says what it says about bandwidth, but keep in mind it's very unscientific and Netflix movies stream at incredibly lossy rates. I use Netflix as well and laugh at its Super HD label. If you want apples to apples you could convert your 96 or 192 content to very lossy MP3 and I bet it would stream just fine. It's still 96 or 192 but most of the information is gone. That's how Netflix works.

 

Looking at your network most engineers would say it must work because the bandwidth is there (1+1=2 type of thing). However, in practice you're fighting an uphill battle. Variables like running both 2.4 and 5 GHz network on one AE, Mac connected via wireless, and Renderer connected via wireless can't help the situation.

 

Edit: Just looked again and see the renderer is running via Ethernet to the AE. This is good but doesn't change my opinion.

 

Here is what I would do in your situation.

 

I'm guessing your AE1 is acting as the router between the WAN and LAN. That's not ideal but probably not a show stopper if it's got two Ethernet ports.

 

1. Purchase a real Ethernet switch like the Netgear GS108 or GS105. Place this on the LAN port of your AE1.

 

2. Purchase Neatgear XAVB5101 power line networking units to connect the Mac Mini and Renderer to the switch via wired Ethernet. I believe you can run a one-to-many configuration where you have a single XAVB5101 at the switch connecting to two XAVB5101s (one at Mac and one at renderer).

 

 

Another way to try this is to connect the Mac and Renderer via Ethernet to an AE directly and let the AE handle all the wireless traffic. It sound weird but the wireless implementations in computers and renderers are usually subpar compared to dedicated wireless devices. You can also look at my article about Airport Extremes using 802.11ac. There is a configuration similar to what I described above that would work for you. it all comes down to what you want to spend to make it work.