Power Filtering/Conditioning/Regeneration

[robbbby]

I know this topic has started many arguments, probably even before they days of the internet, but i'm just interested in hearing peoples personal experiences and feedback.

 

Reason I am bringing this up is because I have been considering some sort of conditioner. My amps are currently plugged directly into the wall and my dac and preamp are plugged into a furman power "conditioner", which was purchased for it's surge protection, not conditioning.

 

I've been looking at two products the PS Audio Power Plant P10 and the Silver Circle Audio Pure Power One 5.0.

 

I've been doing a bit of reading and i've noticed those with conditioners or AC regeneration units still plug their amps into the wall. Anyone run their amps through a conditioner/filter/regenerator? What are your thoughts?

 

Has anyone had good results using these types of products?

 

Has anyone had bad experiences?

 

I've found darn good deals on both the PS audio and silver circle units I mentioned and am not sure if it's something I should really jump on. Demoing isn't really an option since i'm buying used.

 

Personal experiences only please and no need for attacking others opinions, I know this can be a touchy subject.

[Guidof]

Personally, plugging the amp directly into a dedicated 20A outlet (on a separate circuit with no other outlets or loads into it) seems to be the cleanest alternative for me.

 

Guido F.

[AlainGr]

Hi,

 

Though I don't have a power conditioner, I was told a few times that it was better to have the amplifier directly connected to the wall. As Guido wrote, a dedicated 20 amp outlet is good advice.

 

When I asked why not (for the amplifier on a power conditioner), I was told that the SQ could be affected when a sudden draw occurs... Unlike less powerful devices (dac, preamp, CD player...).

 

Alain

[wgscott]

I use this and plug everything into it. It is a non-MOV surge protector and it also filters RF (which I inject into the mains, so I know it is there, even though I have no evidence it is audible).

 

Surge Protectors for Home Theater | Brick Wall

[One and a half]

In a nutshell, you should buy both, and another device as well but for very different reasons. Analysing Power Quality issues is a very complex engineering issue, that requires experience to anlyse the problem in the first place and ability to measure dangerous AC voltages to determine if the fix is right, but let's see how we go from an audiphile perspective.

 

It is difficult for audiophiles to determine how clean our AC out of the wall really is. There are many devices that inflict damage on the AC Waveform and how much, well it depends on where you live.

 

Each device, other than a lamp or heater, that's connected to an AC voltage, creates a reactive current. To go with water analogy, imagine a wave crashing on the beach, this is the strength of the AC voltage, underneath the flow of water is the undertow that goes in the reverse direction, the water that ripples back to the ocean. This is how electrical reactive currents behave, they ripple back creating noise. The bigger the incoming wave, the larger the ripple currents. The effect is that reactive currents create the main AC voltage to be distorted, because reactive currents as a bonus, (to our detriment) are produced at frequencies other than 50/60Hz, in odd orders for 50Hz, 150Hz, 650Hz, corresponding to the multiples of 3rd, 5th and more harmonics.

 

Ok, reactive current exists, but what does it do? A typical audio component is a transformer, a set of diodes, and filter capacitors. The diodes and capacitors are responsible for the 5th harmonic usually 30% of the main AC component, and can flow back to the mains supply, via parasitic capacitances in the transformer (which are very difficult to remove). So you end up with the mains frequency of 50/60Hz, plus small amounts of other rubbish in harmonics, you don't need, but the worst part about it all, is because of the way electricity is distributed, this noise travels through the earth conductor and the neutral being connected to ground at your switchboard.

 

Guess what. Your RCA balanced connection is earthed to the same earthing conductor from the wall. You end up with garbage on your signal leads, and if you're unlucky, hum as well, even if you have only a two prong AC connector.

 

So, the electricity comes out of the wall is polluted, and it's not always the same value, it goes down or up, or off! There are then two things as audio enthusiasts will need to be concerned with.

 

Protection

 

Surge suppression will help if the utility has a fault on their system. For a proper system though, you need to have under voltage as well as over voltage protection. For lightning, unplug. If you want to keep your voltage constant, then buy a UPS or regenerator. A UPS will also give you over and under voltage protection, but give you more noise (on the AC input side) and the waveform out of a UPS is about 3-5% THD, which is no better off than your mains supply in a house, for an apartment, the UPS can fix that to a better value.

 

 

Noise

 

We talked about noise and where it comes from. Some clever ideas are about on how to reduce these effects. Unless you have access to a Power Quality analyser (starting price USD6k), whatever you buy in a power conditioner is going to be a compromise, since you may not compensate enough for existing noise on the AC system. Or worse, you over compensate, and clean up supply for your neighbour! Power conditioners clean up noise by filtering the harmonics on the system. Going back the wave analogy, if you build a brick wall high enough, it's going to stop the wave as well as the ripple currents. If you make it too small, the ripple currents will flow over your brick wall.

Filtering is not a complete solution then, only a partial fix. Softening power available for amplifiers is a matter of dimensioning. There is talk of the filter capacitors reacting with the amplifier filtering, there may be some resonances involved, which cause the power conditioner and amplifier transformers to run hot. To answer the OP, power conditioners have their competition.

 

Balanced power creates a 'new' earth system, and makes that earth system very, very clean, we are talking uA levels. Reactive currents, depending on how good the transformer produces a balanced voltage, will flow through to earth, and leave the AC voltage with minimal impact. The earth connections in RCA unbalanced lines now have a clean earth, and since all the connections are terminated at an amplifier in some respect to the same potential, leaking parasitic currents are minimised as well. I have built a balanced power system, and it works great, and currently awaiting a delivery of a 'real' balanced unit in the next few weeks and will report on this. To make the supply stable, I most likely end up with a UPS in front of the balanced system.

 

Plitron for example produce a toroid transformer that not only is a balanced network, has low inrush currents, as well as using a small capacitor to filter out harmonics, so these are worth a serious look. I can’t remember which conditioner manufacturer uses these, but they publicly state they do. Having larger transformers without some kind of inherent filtering will give you back pain, and not cure noise.

 

Individually you can fit EMC filters to the front end of your equipment, but these work best on balanced power. This reflects any residual high frequency >120kHz – 30MHz hash, especially from SMPS back to the source.

 

So, the issue is identifying what causes AC problems for audio, and there are lots. Each device that fixes AC power on its own is limited in some way, but a combination of different products will get you where you want. Unless you have the right equipment, you can't be re-assured that you have bought wisely, but you can use the best instruments possible, your hearing ability.

 

If you read people that have tried various options, will say that bass is deeper, and the noise is gone, finer details are there for the first time. Bass frequencies are at the 5th harmonic levels, think about it.

[One and a half]

I remember now, Balanced Power Technogies use the Plitron transformer.

[robbbby]

Thanks for the replies guys, keep them coming.

One and a half, I really appreciate the write up, anxious to read as soon as I get home from work. Thanks.

[Brazilº]

 

 

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I use a BrickWall for the JL Audio subs and this Furman strip for the outdoor system electronics. I have a modded Belkin on the way to replace this strip.

 

 

 

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Subs w/BrickWall

 

 

 

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[mwheelerk]

I am not a technical expert by any means on power for audio but my personal experience is that there is benefits to power conditioners and to quality power cables. I believe that some of the discussion might be distorted when you read warning about plugging into units that limit power and that amps should be plug directly into a wall outlet. If they are referring to simple surge protectors and strips with additional ports I think this would be a concern and consideration. There may be products out there under the guise of power conditioners which cannot handle the load from amps or will restrict the draw but I think most well made power conditioners from companies like PS Audio are designed for this function and in my experience perform well. I have never had a dedicated 20A wall line available to me to compare its performance with the amp plugged into it versus plugged into a power conditioner so I cannot offer an opinion on that combination.

[ckpiv]

I came across a deal on a PS Audio P3 back in December. I originally got it to plug all my peripherals in as I have always plugged the amp straight into the wall. However, after reading different views online I decided to try plugging my parasound a21 into the p3. I have not noticed any dynamic loss at all even at high volume levels. It did lower the noise floor. before the P3 I had a monster power unit that did seem to restrict dynamics especially the bass. With the a21, parasound preamp, W4S Dac I draw about 180 to 190 watts of the available 750. The a21 pulls 140-150 watts. Hope this helps.

[Brazilº]

I have never had a dedicated 20A wall line available to me to compare its performance with the amp plugged into it versus plugged into a power conditioner so I cannot offer an opinion on that combination.

 

The audio circuits in my home are 20A breakers on a dedicated run to the specific audio outlet. They may not be exhibit a superior sonic signature but they have to be safer given some of these power sources pull mucho amps.

 

Oyaide R-1 outlets with aluminum frames and Cf panels are on the audio circuits.

 

R-1 ????????????????????????????????oyaide?

 

My main concern with regards to power is surge voltage as we experience numerous cloud to ground lightning strikes here. The Furman power station -8 has worked well both at home and and in the office. However, they should offer a replaceable MOV like some of the PS Audio products.

[wkhanna]

I notice a slight but obvious improvement in transient response, dynamics, pace & realism to music in my system when my amp plugged is directly into the wall as opposed to running it thru the APC H15 I had been using.

[Blake]

Sonically, I prefer my amp connected to my conditioner. Having said that, with my prior power conditioner, that was not the case.

 

So this may be something that is dependant on the brand and model of conditioner you are considering.

[wkhanna]

....this may be something that is dependant on the brand and model of conditioner you are considering.

 

+1

[Blake]

Off thread- Robbby, that is an extremely nice setup you have. How do you like your NCore 400 amp? What amp did it replace?

[wgscott]

This is just like being married. We never get any credit for all the fights we don't have.

[robbbby]

One of my issues with plugging the amp directly into the wall is i'm afraid of any sort of surge or lightning taking out my amps. The reason I was looking at the ps audio unit was because it had surge protection but i'm not sure i'm really getting any sort of benefit having all my gear plugged into it.

 

Blake - Ncores have been great so far, the replaces a cambridge audio azur 840a v2 integrated.

[Blake]

If you are mostly worried about surge protection, how about a Blue Circle Yalu Balula? I think I paid about $20 for mine. You simply plug it in to the wall outlet, power strip or conditioner that your gear is hooked up to. It has no sonic impact whatsoever. Plus, you would be supporting an Ontario-based audio company!

 

Yalu Balula

[robbbby]

Interesting. Thanks a lot for the link.

[NiHo]

Robbby,

As somebody based in Ontario, I should respond. I use the Bryston BIT 15 for my stereo, with all components plugged into it. This is actually made by Piltron (who are located in Toronto) for Bryston. The main component is a large toroidal transformer and consequently it weighs 50 pounds. It provides protection as well as stores energy, which helps with sustained bass notes. My amps are Bryston PowerPac 300s (ie 300 watts each). It helps with reducing the mains borne noise but doesn't eliminate it. There has been no degradation in the sound quality; quite the opposite.

 

How much improvement you will hear depends upon the power supply in the amps and how much noise is picked-up between the unit and the amplifier from computer networks, etc.; I don't know your amps so cannot comment.

 

I have a second unit for my home theater set-up.

 

Nigel

[Pale Rider]

Was happy with the my PSA Power Plant Premier [still have one of them], and even happier with my P5. The regenerators decidedly improve the "blackness" of background and depth of soundstage. Wandered my way through the Monster Power desert a few years back [and still have a secondary system hooked up to an AVS-2000, which has been the piece with which I was least dissatisfied]. I agree with the recommendation to have a 20A dedicated circuit. I plug all my equipment into the Power Plants, and do my best to keep the computer/digital stuff isolated from the analog components.