Question for Paul Hynes linear PSU owners

[Ben-M]

Sounds great kevalin.. I had been bugging Paul about this for the past 2-3 years but wasn't aware of any progress. I guess he finally started work on it.

 

I had almost given up on a true linear ATX PSU.. it was almost as long a wait as thinking of an audiophile motherboard. Do let us know when you get yours.

 

It's so funny to see when there's others just like you out there... I've been wanting an audiophile mobo and linear PSU for so long. The best I could figure was the Asus Sabertooth line with their upgraded caps and 5 year warranty (ie, good part selection and tighter tolerances).

[kevalin]

It's so funny to see when there's others just like you out there... I've been wanting an audiophile mobo and linear PSU for so long. The best I could figure was the Asus Sabertooth line with their upgraded caps and 5 year warranty (ie, good part selection and tighter tolerances).

 

How does the sabertooth compare sonically?

[Ben-M]

How does the sabertooth compare sonically?

 

Tough to say. First problem is I haven't had much time with it and I also moved and had to sell off almost all of my system. So I'm running on limited power right now. I've also got a fairly different part selection, while of course trying to keep in line with "no moving parts in the system" that Chris started. This one is also Haswell based. And I've never heard a stock build for reference.

 

But with all that out of the way and having spent a little bit of time with it before selling off all my nice gear, it's fantastic. I'm really happy I went with the Sabertooth-Gryphon, or however the Micro-ATX one is termed. It's got rock solid construction and it's got the extra slots I wanted so that I can install a 2 port NIC. I can't wait to get this bad boy hooked up to my audio LAN and to the other Jpaly PC for my upcoming 2 PC system.

[Ben-M]

Until an actual "audiophile" mobo comes out and is reviewed as being superior, I'll probably stay with all Sabertooth boards from now on. It sounds great, it's got a nice long warranty, the parts really are solid and look well selected, and it's not a bad board for re-purposing sometime down the road when I make my next CAPS.

[Quest]

Personally the only thing I don't quite like about the Sabertooth is the design which I feel benefits from airflow within the casing. If you're going for totally fanless, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea. No matter what, reliability is important even if the sound is great.

 

There are improvements on motherboards quite often.. Gigabyte's latest shows attention to the USB power, which is a good step from a mobo manufacturer.. hopefully we will get there eventually. I personally found a very basic asus motherboard worked well for me. One without graphics.

[Mike Gillespie]

Mike,

 

The unit I am designing is just for the server only (see below). The costs is only sightly more than purchasing two SR7ED, which is what the unit will have. The advantage for the single chassis, other than having one unit (which can also be a disadvantage if you wish to split the unit in the future for another use) is the unit powers up uniformly and there are no boot issues with the computer. For your setup, I believe just two SR7ED and keep the ATX switch for the motherboard (12V atx MB and 12V CPU runs off one high current supply). Another consideration is talk to Paul Pang who has another economical solution that he has designed and will start selling soon for one or both of your computers. Paul Hynes would be very receptive to any questions you have and will likely have a few good solutions.

 

Paul has been absolutely wonderful and very helpful in this endeavor. Although I placed my order last November, I prefer and am glad to wait until his other commitments are completed, so he is able to focus more on R&D. I do know he has been spending time transitioning to a production facility so R&D is his main focus. The work he has done with Steve Nugent has really made the Empirical Audio Overdrive dac amazing. It smokes my EMM labs DAC2x (at >1/3 less price) and there is a new version that will process DSD, however will loose volume control, which is unfortunate. The volume only makes the sound stage further away instead loosing detail. If interested head over to Another D/A Hynes reg for the Overdrive SE. This is a third upgrade in addition to the other two options published on empirical audio website.

 

I estimate this linear power supply will be completed sometime around the end of the year. Paul, I believe, is now working on the SR7HD orders.

 

Motherboard will have 4 of the 8 rails:

The 4 high current rales to be exact:

ATX 12v

5v

3v3

CPU 12V

 

Then peripherals (3A):

Adnaco card (Fiber optic over PCIe)

Paul Pang USB V.1 card 5V x 3A (Note: Paul recommends 3A for better sound)

SSD 5V and 3A,

External blueray drive (Addonics pocket drive -cd/dvd/blue ray read/write)

 

The question I am debating now is for a marginal price ($500), I can add two other peripheral rails that would add a small heat sink to the back of the unit (in addition to the large ones off to the side) for any future peripherals. I would love any thoughts here. What would you do? Have a couple of extra for good measure? Or just keep it simple.

 

Also to keep in mind for a custom chassis. It is large, heavy, and costly. $1000 for aluminum and maybe $1500 for stainless steel ($500 more than I quoted in a previous post, total price including chassis).

 

I also changed from the Zuma design: Paul Pangs Sata red cable and his SSD aluminum block. Acoustic Revive LAN isolator RLI-1. Vertere Acoustics Pulse R Double UBS Cable at 1.5m. (Case: Streacom FC5WS EVO Price: $272.00 Link Motherboard: Intel DH77EB / BOXDH77EB Price: $100.00 Link Processor: Intel Core i7 i3770S Price: $305 Link ) I suggest a better case than streacom, such as HeatSync Mini-Client 2500.

 

Is it worth while to have two extra rails or not?

 

 

 

 

 

Kevalin,

 

Thanks for all the info.

 

Personally, I would get the extra rails... I would hate to have to send it back to Paul, etc.

 

I'm going to see what Paul Pang comes up with. I have a similar setup. I'm building an audio pc now..

 

For ideal double PC setup: What would you put in the a) ultimate Control PC; b) the ultimate Audio PC | Computer Audio | Forum | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows

 

Is the case you're using using this Atech:

HeatSync Mini-Client 2500

 

What are the advantages?

 

I've also got a Dac2x.... interesting about Empirical-Steve Nugent'ss dac sounding so good. Isn't Steve also making LPS units?

 

Thanks again.

[Mike Gillespie]

Sounds great kevalin.. I had been bugging Paul about this for the past 2-3 years but wasn't aware of any progress. I guess he finally started work on it.

 

Personally, I would keep it simple and exclude the peripheral rails. You can always add-on something else in the future if necessary. It's in my experience that the simpler the PC system the better so far so likely you wouldn't have to add on too many things.

 

I use the HFX classic casing which I find sounds better than the streacom, and also has a hole at the bottom to feed in the external PSU leads.

 

I had almost given up on a true linear ATX PSU.. it was almost as long a wait as thinking of an audiophile motherboard. Do let us know when you get yours.

 

Quest, do you have a link to the HFX case you're using?

 

Thanks.

[Quest]

Mike, I would question if kevalin is using a usb/spdif converter with his DAC2X as I feel that's pretty much a necessity.

 

The hfx classic casing:

HFX - HFX classic

 

There are a number of quirks with the casing, especially with fitting the PSU with certain size motherboards, that you have to be aware of. If you are using an external PSU or 'float' your PSU by removing some internal bays, there is no issue.

 

 

Since you're a jplay dual PC user, I need to also highlight that you need to take care of things like router, modems, and any peripherals connected to your Control PC as well (including mouse, keyboard, monitor).

 

To help you visualise - I've found even if you run Control-Audio PC link using wifi (I did this as test so it's not electrically linked - the Audio PC is on separate dedicated line), using a better power cord to monitor of Control PC also makes a difference to me. Same as using better cables to my modem and router. Even vibration isolation on router. This is even when I just use the Control PC via remote desktop to effect local playback on Audio PC (e.g. without using jplay). It's pretty crazy.

[kevalin]

Mike,

 

I am not sure what LPS means? Forgive me. I am using the streacom case and would much rather use the Heatsync 2600hp... HeatSync 2800HP Mini-Client

 

• 75% increased cooling capacity compared to Mini-Client 2500 case
  

 

advantages I see...more robust, solid. Also can custom the heat sync pipes to any board spec. Additional heat pipes to other aspects of the board:

 

[TABLE=width: 100%]

[TR]

[TD]Chipset HeatSync Cooling System[/TD]

[TD]

Chipset HeatSync Cooling System[/TD]

[/TR]

[TR]

[TD]Custom HeatSync^® Cooling System specifically designed for selected motherboards. Transfers heat from the video processor and/or motherboard chipset into the heatsink case. Reduces chipset temps by 20-30C compared to stock heatsink.

 

Look under the order form for the option....I would opt to not have CD slot. Best to keep separate.

 

This would be in my next build, down the road. I had my 8 yo son build my Zuma. Perhaps, when I retire this version to his uncle.

 

Quest: I considered a converter. (have not tried as yet) However I would give up DSD. What converter did you settle on? I had interest in Sonicweld - Diverter HR

 

How do you handle DSD and what converter do you use?[/TD]

[/TR]

[/TABLE]

[Mike Gillespie]

Mike, I would question if kevalin is using a usb/spdif converter with his DAC2X as I feel that's pretty much a necessity.

 

The hfx classic casing:

HFX - HFX classic

 

There are a number of quirks with the casing, especially with fitting the PSU with certain size motherboards, that you have to be aware of. If you are using an external PSU or 'float' your PSU by removing some internal bays, there is no issue.

 

 

Since you're a jplay dual PC user, I need to also highlight that you need to take care of things like router, modems, and any peripherals connected to your Control PC as well (including mouse, keyboard, monitor).

 

To help you visualise - I've found even if you run Control-Audio PC link using wifi (I did this as test so it's not electrically linked - the Audio PC is on separate dedicated line), using a better power cord to monitor of Control PC also makes a difference to me. Same as using better cables to my modem and router. Even vibration isolation on router. This is even when I just use the Control PC via remote desktop to effect local playback on Audio PC (e.g. without using jplay). It's pretty crazy.

 

Quest:

 

Thanks for all the information. It sure does get crazy...

 

I'm going to use a remote desktop control of the CONTROL PC so there's no mouse, monitor, etc.

 

What "better cables" are you using on your modem and router?

 

Also: re the spdif converter, I had a Berkely Alpha USB and a great AES cable by Wywire (the gold with Bybees that killed everything in a big shootout) but when we tested the Meitner MA-1 with the Alpha USB via AES vs. the USB alone, the USB alone sounded better. I'll have to check with the other guys as to whether that was with PCM files or with some DSD.

 

There was also this in the comments after Chris C's review of the EMM Dac2x:

 

Computer Audiophile - EMM Labs DAC2X Review

 

Which lends support to not having a spdif converter in the chain.

 

 

dmnc02 - 07-08-2012, 02:12 PM

Reply

 

Chris, thank you for the review. You mention that the DAC2X's USB input is not galvanically isolated and that "users requiring isolation can use products like the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB". Did you have a chance to compare the direct USB input with the S/PDIF output from the Berkeley Alpha USB? I own the EMM Labs XDS1 (which has similar technology to the DAC2X, minus the USB input) and the Berkeley Alpha USB, and so I am very interested in the comparison.

 

barrows's Avatar

barrows - 07-08-2012, 03:21 PM

Reply

 

Quote Originally Posted by dmnc02 View Post

Chris, thank you for the review. You mention that the DAC2X's USB input is not galvanically isolated and that "users requiring isolation can use products like the Berkeley Audio Design Alpha USB". Did you have a chance to compare the direct USB input with the S/PDIF output from the Berkeley Alpha USB? I own the EMM Labs XDS1 (which has similar technology to the DAC2X, minus the USB input) and the Berkeley Alpha USB, and so I am very interested in the comparison.

Chris has mentioned that he used a CAPS with an SOtM USB output board to good effect with the Meitner DAC, I would expect he achieved similar results with the EMM. I use a non-isolated USB interface with my DAC, and get exceptional sound also using an SOtM USB output board in my server. There are drawbacks to currently available USB isolation approaches: they add jitter, so they may do more harm than good, depending on how much noise is coming over on the USB lines. I suspect there is a good reason EMM/Meitner and dCS do not use isolators on their USB inputs...

As for the Alpha USB, sure, if you have a DAC with only SPDIF input the Alpha USB is always going to be an excellent solution.

[Ben-M]

Personally the only thing I don't quite like about the Sabertooth is the design which I feel benefits from airflow within the casing. If you're going for totally fanless, I wasn't sure if it was a good idea. No matter what, reliability is important even if the sound is great.

 

There are improvements on motherboards quite often.. Gigabyte's latest shows attention to the USB power, which is a good step from a mobo manufacturer.. hopefully we will get there eventually. I personally found a very basic asus motherboard worked well for me. One without graphics.

 

Hey Quest, I was also wondering about the Thermal Armour in a fanless build, that's why I was super happy when Asus released the Gryphon Micro-ATX board in the Sabertooth lineup. This board is of course smaller than the standard ATX Sabertooth, but also doesn't come with the Thermal Armour pre-installed. It's something you can pick up afterward if you want, but since I'm going fanless/silent, I skipped out on it. No heat issues as of yet.

 

On a side note, all of the Thermal Armour on the ATX Sabertooth is removable, just in case it didn't suit someone's fancy.

 

As for Gigabyte's latest efforts with improving USB power delivery, I hadn't heard anything about this. Is there a thread anywhere with someone using a new one to good effect? Or a comparison of old vs. new? I'm always happy to learn what I can about new mobo tech that might crossover to audio :-D

 

And that last part you mentioned there was interesting. What Asus board doesn't have graphics, and in it's place do you have a silent GPU installed or do you run remote/headless?

[Quest]

kevalin:

I am using a art legato II usb converter which only does 16/44.1. It sounded better than the sonicweld to me. I would agree that the DAC2X already sounds decent, but can be better - hence good to test the usb/spdif converter to ensure it does make an improvement first. I mentioned it here because Empirical's converter should already make quite a difference if included in their DAC.

 

DSD does not sound good to me so I never collected - only have less than 10 albums.

I have quite a lot of hi-res albums (300+) but have lived without it for now. I still buy CDs to rip, and those are the music I prefer.

 

 

Mike Gillespie:

- My point is that remote desktop to Control PC will also have an effect.. but maybe you can give it a try first.

 

- I'm testing out various linear PSU on the router and modem and will let you know. For now, I feel it quite important to add some power filters for these products. I am using DA&T filters which do not cost a lot (e.g. US$200 for one filter which can fit both a router and modem).

 

- For LAN cables, I have a preference for some Japanese brands for now, though some need some slight modifications. I find that shielded can work between router and modem and others, but unshielded seems to work best for the Control PC and Audio PC. I do have some more expensive ones (such as PPA) but do not prefer them in my system.

 

- About USB vs usb/spdif converters, I guess you will just have to try to find out. Just sharing my experience as I also own a Dac2x. The main difference everyone has said for my setup, is the liveliness.

 

Ben-M:

- Thanks, did not know the thermal armour can be removed.. that's great.

- Example of Gigabyte's offering with better USB: GIGABYTE - Motherboard - Socket FM2+ - G1.Sniper A88X (rev. 3.0)

The reason why I mention about this, is because I still prefer using direct motherboard usb than those filter cards or usb hubs.

- My asus board is an old one.. I don't think they make one for the latest CPUs. I run it headless, without a graphic card. I only plug in a graphic card to make changes to Bios or other functions where remote desktop doesn't work.

[Mike Gillespie]

Quest:

 

Please let us know what Linear power supplies (LPS) you find work the best on your router and modem. I'm a little concerned that they'll be so much internal "computer noise" in the router/modem that it might all be for naught.

 

Many on the Jplay.eu forum have had success with LAN isolators like the Acoustic Revive or GISO.

 

LAN Isolators | Computer Audio | Forum | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows

 

They've also had success with the Meicord LAN cables.

 

Which Paul Pang LAN did you have to test?

 

Are you looking at the Acoustic Revive LAN cables?

 

RE: spdif: I have over 2tb of DSD, much directly from analog source tapes so the quality is very high. That rules out almost all SPDIF converters and the ones that might work are a pain for the conversion, etc.

[Quest]

Mike, will drop you a PM so we don't derail this thread further.

[kevalin]

Mike, I am also very interested in the discussion too. Can I join? I am curious about the GISO and your thoughts. (I currently have the Acoustic Research LAN Islolator RLI-1) Did you use their RJ45 to RJ45 ETHERCON adapter cables? Your thoughts and was it a male to male end, as are regular ethernet cables. I currently use Audoquest Cinnamon and never have done any tests. Any benefit to the ethercon attachment if the unit is not being moved around? ...thanks.

[Mike Gillespie]

Mike, I am also very interested in the discussion too. Can I join? I am curious about the GISO and your thoughts. (I currently have the Acoustic Research LAN Islolator RLI-1) Did you use their RJ45 to RJ45 ETHERCON adapter cables? Your thoughts and was it a male to male end, as are regular ethernet cables. I currently use Audoquest Cinnamon and never have done any tests. Any benefit to the ethercon attachment if the unit is not being moved around? ...thanks.

 

Kevalin, I hope you'll join the discussion about this kind of stuff at

 

LAN Isolators | Computer Audio | Forum | JPLAY - hi-end audio player for Windows

 

We look forward to having you join us there.

[AnotherSpin]

Just want to share my experience with ordering a unit from Paul Hynes. My initial inquiry by e-mail was very fast answered by Paul, all required details provided, additional questions answered. I was informed about long production period of time with possible additional delays. It took about 6 months before I received a parcel with my SR5. I do not hesitate to tell I am greatly impressed with immediate improvement of the SQ. And it is only very first and fresh impression, I understand the burn-in time is required before detailed observations would be made. Paul seem to be very busy person, I suspect he has one or two things to do besides replying e-mails. But, if you really want to hear from him, write again, or you may leave a message to answering machine. This is unique one of a kind designer production and it has its way of functioning and creating beautiful pieces.

[Mike Gillespie]

You are indeed lucky, AnotherSpin. No one questions the quality of Paul's work, just the incredibly long times to get product. Paul Pang at PPA Studio in Taiwan makes very good units at a fraction of the price and weeks delay (not months, or years), as do many other companies. As good as Paul Hynes'? Maybe not, but at least they arrive within a reasonable time and do sound very good.

[kevalin]

And to add to Mike's comments. Fortunately Paul is moving production over to a manufacturing facility and focusing his talents into more R&D. This also means little to no waiting times.

[fmak]

Wap and others, Paul's power supplies are custom orders and hand built. If you don't accept his lead times (which includes shipping from the UK, and will be longer than Wap's "5-6 week unacceptable" example) then do not order. But unless you don't like his product it seems pointless to bash his business model sight unseen (or unheard). My $.02

 

No brainer; this is why small companies who trade on their reputation have transiditionally failed in Britain.

 

The customer interface is often apalling and this includes things like 1.5 year delay on fulfilling an order for a Calorimeter and a Mass Spectrometer that never worked properly.

 

If they can't fulfill a contract in reasonable time, customers will simply go elsewhere. In our case, we went to Japan; reputation is just not good enough.

[Vitor]

Sorry to back to life such an old thread.

Thing is, I have at home an SR3-9 12V running for about one day and noticed that it runs extremely hot (I mean really, really hot) to the point where you can't touch it more than 2 seconds without burning your fingers.

I know it's usual psu's reach high temperatures, but like this?

Can someone using PH PSU'S share some thoughts?

And if so, can we leave it on 24/7? 

Thanks!

[desbiss]

Hi Vitor. I no longer own my Paul Hynes PSU, but mine was only warm to the touch at any time.. and I left it turned on continuously.  It definitely was not hot to the point where you  couldn't keep your hand on it for a prolonged period of time. 

[ted_b]

I have an SR3-12 and an SR7-EHD (dialed to 12V currently) and neither run very warm at all...warm, but not very.

[elcorso]

1 hour ago, Vitor said:

Sorry to back to life such an old thread.

Thing is, I have at home an SR3-9 12V running for about one day and noticed that it runs extremely hot (I mean really, really hot) to the point where you can't touch it more than 2 seconds without burning your fingers.

I know it's usual psu's reach high temperatures, but like this?

Can someone using PH PSU'S share some thoughts?

And if so, can we leave it on 24/7? 

Thanks!

 

There is something wrong with yours.  I own the SR3-12 & SR5-12 leave'm ON 24/7 but never got high temperatures.  Better ask Paul !

 

Roch

[baburh]

Similar experience here. I have a 3 rail SR7. Always on.  Never very warm.