HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[Miska]

24 minutes ago, ebrandon said:

Any ideas?  Thanks!

 

Everything looks normal, so I would suspect the problem is that your Chromebook is not seeing the multicast message from HQPlayer. It reports always when it gets messages...

 

So I would look into network configuration at that side...

 

[ebrandon]

On 4/24/2017 at 1:28 AM, Miska said:

 

Everything looks normal, so I would suspect the problem is that your Chromebook is not seeing the multicast message from HQPlayer. It reports always when it gets messages...

 

So I would look into network configuration at that side...

 

You were correct.  It was a network problem on the Chromebook side, and I solved it using IPTABLES.

 

There is one remaining problem.  ALSA sees my iFi DAC:

aplay -l
**** List of PLAYBACK Hardware Devices ****
card 0: HDMI [HDA Intel HDMI], device 3: HDMI 0 [HDMI 0]
  Subdevices: 0/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: HDMI [HDA Intel HDMI], device 7: HDMI 1 [HDMI 1]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 0: HDMI [HDA Intel HDMI], device 8: HDMI 2 [HDMI 2]
  Subdevices: 1/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 1: PCH [HDA Intel PCH], device 0: ALC283 Analog [ALC283 Analog]
  Subdevices: 0/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0
card 2: Audio [iFi (by AMR) HD USB Audio], device 0: USB Audio [USB Audio]
  Subdevices: 0/1
  Subdevice #0: subdevice #0

 

But the NAA does not.  Both the NAA and the HQPlayer log file show that the NAA see some of the sound cards availble through ALSA, but not the iFi.

 

Here is the NAA dialogue:

[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): networkaudiod Copyright (C) 2011-2017 Jussi Laako / Signalyst. All rights reserved.
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): asoundlib version: 1.1.0
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): discovery from [::ffff:192.168.2.239]:56330
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): discovery from [::ffff:192.168.2.239]:56330
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): connection from [::ffff:192.168.2.239]:56374
^C[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): Found ALSA device: hw:0,7 - HDA Intel HDMI: HDMI 1
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): Found ALSA device: hw:0,8 - HDA Intel HDMI: HDMI 2
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): begin disconnection
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): ALSA backend uninitialized
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): disconnected [::ffff:192.168.2.239]:56374
[/usr/sbin/networkaudiod] (4142): ALSA backend uninitialized

and here is the HQplayer log file:

  2017/04/25 16:49:34 Discovery from 0.0.0.0
& 2017/04/25 16:49:34 Discovered network audio: name='MusicRoomMini' version='Signalyst Network Audio Daemon 3.1.0'  @192.168.2.95:43210
& 2017/04/25 16:49:34 Discovered network audio: name='default' version='Signalyst Network Audio Daemon 3.5.1'  @192.168.2.30:43210
& 2017/04/25 16:49:34 Discovered network audio: name='default' version='Signalyst Network Audio Daemon 3.5.1'  @192.168.2.30:43210
  2017/04/25 16:49:35  Network endpoint: Built-in Output (38)
  2017/04/25 16:49:35  Network endpoint: AirPlay (45)
  2017/04/25 16:49:35  Network endpoint: HDA Intel HDMI: HDMI 1 (hw:0,7)
  2017/04/25 16:49:35  Network endpoint: HDA Intel HDMI: HDMI 2 (hw:0,8)
 

Any ideas why ALSA would see the card but NAA can't use it?

One possible clue: chromebooks use quite an old Linux kernel (maybe a modified version of kernel 3.9?)

Would I have to install a driver?  What kind of driver?

 

Thanks!

[Miska]

8 hours ago, ebrandon said:

Any ideas why ALSA would see the card but NAA can't use it?

One possible clue: chromebooks use quite an old Linux kernel (maybe a modified version of kernel 3.9?)

Would I have to install a driver?  What kind of driver?

 

What OS and version are you running on the Crhomebook? If you have something else than what the networkaudiod package was built for, then it may not work properly...

 

Usually reason for a device not appearing on the device list is that something else is keeping it busy.

 

[ebrandon]

10 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What OS and version are you running on the Crhomebook? If you have something else than what the networkaudiod package was built for, then it may not work properly...

 

Usually reason for a device not appearing on the device list is that something else is keeping it busy.

 

 

I am running Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial) inside a Chroot on a Chromebook (latest stable Chrome OS 57) in "developer mode".  This method allows Linux distributions to use the old, custom kernel used by ChromeOS.

[Miska]

2 hours ago, ebrandon said:

 

I am running Ubuntu 16.04 (Xenial) inside a Chroot on a Chromebook (latest stable Chrome OS 57) in "developer mode".  This method allows Linux distributions to use the old, custom kernel used by ChromeOS.

 

OK... It may have some funny side-effects though... Chromebook doesn't work with the standard distro kernel? (I have to admit, I've never seen Chromebook IRL)

 

[ebrandon]

17 hours ago, Miska said:

 

What OS and version are you running on the Crhomebook? If you have something else than what the networkaudiod package was built for, then it may not work properly...

 

Usually reason for a device not appearing on the device list is that something else is keeping it busy.

 

 

This is why I really value your support.  Your intuitions are usually correct and steer me to finding the solution.  I figured out how to get ChromeOS to release the iFi USB DAC, and now the NAA running in Ubuntu can see it!

 

On my cheap and wonderful chromebook I can now simultaneously control HQPlayer on a remote PC, listen to my USB DAC from NAA running in Ubuntu, and use ChromeOS to read on the web, do email, etc.

 

Awesome!

[falcongate]

Sorry for my newby questions, but I still have a few things not clear about NAA. Does the NAA work only with USB output? Can it work with sound cards like RME? Can an NAA work with multiple outputs, like 2 different USB DACs?

 

Thanks

[jabbr]

7 hours ago, falcongate said:

Sorry for my newby questions, but I still have a few things not clear about NAA. Does the NAA work only with USB output? Can it work with sound cards like RME? Can an NAA work with multiple outputs, like 2 different USB DACs?

 

Thanks

NAA works with ALSA drivers (on linux), so not only USB. Can work with multiple.

[falcongate]

13 hours ago, jabbr said:

NAA works with ALSA drivers (on linux), so not only USB. Can work with multiple.

Thanks for the reply. So NAA can use whatever sound cards installed.

[jabbr]

I'm trying to get Phasure NOS1a working with NAA. Its entirely WSAPI. It seems like networkaudiod is sending the output to "Dummy" so I'm thinking I need to map the ASIO but I'm running HQPlayer from OS X 10.10.5 ... I don't see the ASIO mapping on Tools... Is there an environment variable to do this for networkaudiod? (on windows 10).

 

Seems like voodoo  

[Miska]

12 minutes ago, jabbr said:

I'm trying to get Phasure NOS1a working with NAA. Its entirely WSAPI. It seems like networkaudiod is sending the output to "Dummy" so I'm thinking I need to map the ASIO but I'm running HQPlayer from OS X 10.10.5 ... I don't see the ASIO mapping on Tools... Is there an environment variable to do this for networkaudiod? (on windows 10).

 

Seems like voodoo  

 

You should be running networkaudiod with WASAPI backend.

 

The ASIO mapping thing is only available when local backend is set to ASIO. When backend is set to NAA, HQPlayer doesn't know what kind of driver interface there is being used at the other side.

 

You can remap/reroute channels using the pipeline matrix achieving practically same end result but in a heavier way.

 

[jabbr]

13 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

You should be running networkaudiod with WASAPI backend.

 

The ASIO mapping thing is only available when local backend is set to ASIO. When backend is set to NAA, HQPlayer doesn't know what kind of driver interface there is being used at the other side.

 

You can remap/reroute channels using the pipeline matrix achieving practically same end result but in a heavier way.

 

 

Is there a way to specify WSAPI backend? Its giving me ASIO messages (networkaudiod that is)

 

(I have no idea what an ASIO or WSAPI is btw... gosh it would be so much better if the USB->IS2 interface folks properly supported Linux

 

[Miska]

31 minutes ago, jabbr said:

 

Is there a way to specify WSAPI backend? Its giving me ASIO messages (networkaudiod that is)

 

(I have no idea what an ASIO or WSAPI is btw... gosh it would be so much better if the USB->IS2 interface folks properly supported Linux

 

 

See the launcher .bat script included in the package. You can edit it to adjust some of the parameters (remove the "rem" comment prefix to enable the line).

 

WASAPI is Microsoft's equivalent of ALSA while ASIO is Steinberg's.

 

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, Miska said:

 

See the launcher .bat script included in the package. You can edit it to adjust some of the parameters (remove the "rem" comment prefix to enable the line).

 

WASAPI is Microsoft's equivalent of ALSA while ASIO is Steinberg's.

 

Yeah I really should have seen that ... its been a blur installing and reinstalling Windows and drivers ... thanks

[pkane2001]

@Miska: is there a way to specify a network card to use with HQPlayer for multicast to NAA? I have a Windows 10 PC with two network cards. One is wirelessly connected to my NAS drive, the other I'd like to connect directly to the NAA using ethernet. I need a way to tell HQPlayer which network card to use to find the NAA. Any suggestions?

[Miska]

19 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

@Miska: is there a way to specify a network card to use with HQPlayer for multicast to NAA? I have a Windows 10 PC with two network cards. One is wirelessly connected to my NAS drive, the other I'd like to connect directly to the NAA using ethernet. I need a way to tell HQPlayer which network card to use to find the NAA. Any suggestions?

 

That is wrong question to ask, right question would be how to arrange your OS routing table so that multicasts are routed the way you want...

 

[pkane2001]

3 hours ago, Miska said:

That is wrong question to ask, right question would be how to arrange your OS routing table so that multicasts are routed the way you want...

 

That's the question I wanted to ask!  I didn't think that was possible, but will take a second look.

 

I guess the answer to my first question is 'no'?

 

[pkane2001]

3 hours ago, pkane2001 said:

That's the question I wanted to ask!  I didn't think that was possible, but will take a second look.

 

Solved by setting the priority metric on the NAA network interface higher than on the NAS interface. HQPlayer connects to NAA and sees NAS through two different interfaces. Thanks for pointing me in the right direction, @Miska!

[louisxiawei]

@Miska

 

Hey Miska, I'm going to purchase the logic CL100 you recommended as NAA for HQplayer DSD512 streaming. 

 

Which operating system you will recommend for CL100? I'm going for 16GB RAM and 64GB SSD configuration. 

 

For stability, is windows 10 pro good enough? I also see Logic offering Microsoft Windows Embedded 7 E, what do you think ? Thanks in advance.

[volpone]

53 minutes ago, louisxiawei said:

@Miska

 

Hey Miska, I'm going to purchase the logic CL100 you recommended as NAA for HQplayer DSD512 streaming. 

 

Which operating system you will recommend for CL100? I'm going for 16GB RAM and 64GB SSD configuration. 

 

For stability, is windows 10 pro good enough? I also see Logic offering Microsoft Windows Embedded 7 E, what do you think ? Thanks in advance.

 

I'm really interested in your question to @Miska about CL100 because i'm also looking for a "good" ASIO / NAA endpoint.

However, is stability really the main concern ? What about USB interface qualities and resulting SQ at DAC outputs ?

I would like a WIN / ASIO endpoint with the same qualities (isolation, reclocking) as MicroRendu, SMS-200, Allo USB-Bridge ?

[Miska]

On 7/23/2017 at 9:02 PM, louisxiawei said:

@Miska

 

Hey Miska, I'm going to purchase the logic CL100 you recommended as NAA for HQplayer DSD512 streaming. 

 

Which operating system you will recommend for CL100? I'm going for 16GB RAM and 64GB SSD configuration. 

 

For stability, is windows 10 pro good enough? I also see Logic offering Microsoft Windows Embedded 7 E, what do you think ? Thanks in advance.

 

I have Win 10 Pro and modified Ubuntu Server 16.04 LTS installed on it. Win 7 may be a better option, because it is less mangled by recent Microsoft crap. But I have no experience at all with Windows Embedded 7, never seen it and I know nothing about it. So I cannot comment about that particular version.

 

[Jud]

I've been attempting an install of Archlinux Arm on my Cubox, and have run into the following problems after doing the normal rootfs installation on an SD card preparatory to setting up :

 

- No HDMI monitor output (what I have available), so I can't see what's going on directly

 

- No Ethernet, so I can't SSH in

 

Would appreciate suggestions regarding any or all of the following:

 

- I currently have Armbian in its Xenial configuration running on the Cubox, so are there handy dandy install instructions for Archlinux Arm from an operating system?

 

- What are the files I need to edit in the rootfs install on the SD card to get working Ethernet so I can SSH in?

 

- Is there a reasonably inexpensive small computer on which installing Arch Linux (and then NAA) is a little easier than on the Cubox?

[jabbr]

1 hour ago, Jud said:

I've been attempting an install of Archlinux Arm on my Cubox, and have run into the following problems after doing the normal rootfs installation on an SD card preparatory to setting up :

 

- No HDMI monitor output (what I have available), so I can't see what's going on directly

 

- No Ethernet, so I can't SSH in

 

Would appreciate suggestions regarding any or all of the following:

 

- I currently have Armbian in its Xenial configuration running on the Cubox, so are there handy dandy install instructions for Archlinux Arm from an operating system?

 

- What are the files I need to edit in the rootfs install on the SD card to get working Ethernet so I can SSH in?

 

- Is there a reasonably inexpensive small computer on which installing Arch Linux (and then NAA) is a little easier than on the Cubox?

 

@Jud, if you'd just followed by advice to get a ClearFog Base, you'd be much happier now

 

Don't know CuBox but perhaps, like the ClearFog, it has a microUSB port to which its terminal is connected. See my blog for instructions.

 

If your model has microUSB <-> rs232 then I would connect the microUSB port (see picture from embedded link below) to a laptop, run a terminal emulator and then you can log into the CuBox and get Ethernet working...

 

Do you need Arch Linux or can you use Debian/Armbian?

[Miska]

3 hours ago, jabbr said:

Don't know CuBox but perhaps, like the ClearFog, it has a microUSB port to which its terminal is connected. See my blog for instructions.

 

Do you need Arch Linux or can you use Debian/Armbian?

 

CuBox has microUSB serial console, with the typical FTDI chip, so it works easily (at least on Linux).

 

Debian 9 has support for CuBox-i, so it is pretty straightforward to install and use. Of course there are also the NAA images I build for it...

 

[Jud]

37 minutes ago, Miska said:

 

CuBox has microUSB serial console, with the typical FTDI chip, so it works easily (at least on Linux).

 

Debian 9 has support for CuBox-i, so it is pretty straightforward to install and use. Of course there are also the NAA images I build for it...

 

 

Yep, I see the microUSB port.  Good.  (I imagine I could also put the SD card in a USB adapter, mount it to a directory and chroot.)

 

The documentation that I've seen for installation of Debian 9 armhf just doesn't do it for me (all sorts of stuff about CDs, DVDs, and Blu-Ray disks!).  The reason I like the idea of Arch is that someone has gone to the trouble of properly configuring networkaudiod and other software I want to install, so my rudimentary Linux knowledge won't be tested too much.  (It's because there's other software I'd like to install that I'm not using the image, which installs as easily as possible and works beautifully.)