HQPlayer's Network Audio Adapter

[shadowlight]

Note: I did:

 

apt-get install linux-image-lowlatency

 

but that didn't work until I installed Miska's particular linux-image-lowlatency (via dpkg -i)

 

You are correct. To support non DoP based DSD at higher res you need Miska's kernel.

[jabbr]

When I output at DSD512/22579200 (HQPlayer 3.6.0 OS X/NAA 3.0.0 ubuntu/atom->iFi iDSD micro) the output stutters. Plays fine at DSD256/11289600. Regardless of buffer settings. Uses 33% CPU with DSF64 sources an 50% CPU with PCM 24/192 sources.

[Miska]

When I output at DSD512/22579200 (HQPlayer 3.6.0 OS X/NAA 3.0.0 ubuntu/atom->iFi iDSD micro) the output stutters. Plays fine at DSD256/11289600. Regardless of buffer settings. Uses 33% CPU with DSF64 sources an 50% CPU with PCM 24/192 sources.

 

What kind of CPU do you have on the Mac?

[jabbr]

What kind of CPU do you have on the Mac?

 

I7-4930x (IVB-E) on gigabyte GA-x79-up4

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Miska]

I7-4930x (IVB-E) on gigabyte GA-x79-up4

 

Just turn on the Pipeline SDM setting and you should be fine...

[jabbr]

Just turn on the Pipeline SDM setting and you should be fine...

 

On, tried various buffer times, different modulators. Using poly-sinc-mp tried poly-sinc-mp-2s.

 

The stuttering isn't just once in a while, its continuous.

[kurb1980]

@ jabbr

 

It's the micro I have the same issue. To rid of the problem make sure that the micro USB is unplugged power up CPU then plug in micro USB turn on. It's a firmware issue it losses lock intermittently.

[Miska]

On, tried various buffer times, different modulators. Using poly-sinc-mp tried poly-sinc-mp-2s.

 

The stuttering isn't just once in a while, its continuous.

 

Hmmh, hard to say where the problem exactly could be. Every time output sampling rate is doubled, CPU load is doubled.

 

I just tested again, networkaudiod running on Linux PC and HQPlayer running on quad-core 3.2 GHz Core i5 27" iMac.

 

First period in the load plot is without pipeline SDM and there are occasional dropouts every now and then, later part in the plot after the no load period is with pipeline SDM and no dropouts at all:

 

Here are the settings (buffer time is set to "Default", this pre-release build has a bug on that part of the dialog):

[Le Concombre Masqué]

I 'm still experimenting a dropout once in a while though I set buffer time to 50 ms and limit level by 3dB. you advised against pipeline (I have a quad core MBP) ; is it detrimental to the sound ?(my dropouts are brief, rare and not too disturbing)

 

btw : what optimizations did you use to get down to 135 processes (i have even fewer but claimed optimization while you advised against).

Hmmh, hard to say where the problem exactly could be. Every time output sampling rate is doubled, CPU load is doubled.

 

I just tested again, networkaudiod running on Linux PC and HQPlayer running on quad-core 3.2 GHz Core i5 27" iMac.

 

First period in the load plot is without pipeline SDM and there are occasional dropouts every now and then, later part in the plot after the no load period is with pipeline SDM and no dropouts at all:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16525[/ATTACH]

 

Here are the settings (buffer time is set to "Default", this pre-release build has a bug on that part of the dialog):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16526[/ATTACH]

[Miska]

I 'm still experimenting a dropout once in a while though I set buffer time to 50 ms and limit level by 3dB. you advised against pipeline (I have a quad core MBP) ; is it detrimental to the sound ?(my dropouts are brief, rare and not too disturbing)

 

General rule is to not use it if things work without (because it has some overhead). And that you need minimum quad-core when you enable it, otherwise it will just make things worse. So if you experience occasional dropouts and have a quad-core, you can try enabling it.

 

btw : what optimizations did you use to get down to 135 processes (i have even fewer but claimed optimization while you advised against).

 

Nothing at all, this is stock OS X 10.9 as it came pre-installed from Apple. I have added F-Secure anti-virus and exaSound & Mytek drivers (you can see related processes on the list).

[Le Concombre Masqué]

thank you ; my non optimized working session Yosemite is running over 200 processes at the moment

 

General rule is to not use it if things work without (because it has some overhead). And that you need minimum quad-core when you enable it, otherwise it will just make things worse. So if you experience occasional dropouts and have a quad-core, you can try enabling it.

 

 

 

Nothing at all, this is stock OS X 10.9 as it came pre-installed from Apple. I have added F-Secure anti-virus and exaSound & Mytek drivers (you can see related processes on the list).

[Le Concombre Masqué]

I asked you who knows more about the SQ impact of pipelining for I can't hear any difference that wouldn't be inside the boundaries of the variability of my perception...

 

As of the load (here while processing 44 to 2xdsd) can't see much difference either

[jabbr]

 

Here are the settings (buffer time is set to "Default", this pre-release build has a bug on that part of the dialog):

[ATTACH=CONFIG]16526[/ATTACH]

 

Using your settings. Same problem. The stuttering happens multiple times/sec and seems to slow the tempo of the song down. There also seems to be some ringing. I've tried a few songs of different tempo to see if the tempo of the song interacts with the tempo of the stuttering. The stuttering mostly consists of gaps in playback (multiple x/sec) but the entire song seems to be played.

[jabbr]

My CPU utilization is 193% but only 20% of my system (more cores than you). Network IOPS 3400-7000 out and 1700 in. data sent: 3-6 MB/sec, received 112 KB/sec.

[jabbr]

my NAA reports (via top):

[shadowlight]

I am running into couple of issues/questions with NAA and HQPlayer

 

 

1. Occasionally I have to restart the NAA v.3 daemon for it to show up in HQPlayer.
   
2. I am upconverting everything to 2xDSD and every time a song starts or ends I hear a click, including the gaps between song. Is there a way for me to prevent that. The USB card in question is Amanero Combo384. I have tried both DSD7 and ASDM5.
   
3. Is there a way to play everything in gapless mode?
   
4. How do I play a playlist generated by JRiver?
   
5. Anyway to integrated Spotify/Tidal/Pandora with HQPlayer?
   

 

TIA

[Miska]

[*]Occasionally I have to restart the NAA v.3 daemon for it to show up in HQPlayer.

 

Which OS the NAA is on?

 

I have only one machine that is having some issues. My MacMini running Windows 8.1 tends to lose some of the discovery messages, so it is not always found. I updated the Broadcom NIC driver, but it didn't help much. It is also sometimes having issues finding SMB shares. I have not yet found root cause of this problem, but I will keep looking.

 

[*]I am upconverting everything to 2xDSD and every time a song starts or ends I hear a click, including the gaps between song. Is there a way for me to prevent that. The USB card in question is Amanero Combo384. I have tried both DSD7 and ASDM5.

 

What is the format of the two files where this transition problem between files happens?

 

[*]Is there a way to play everything in gapless mode?

 

Everything is gapless by default, except the special case when playing DSD files in playlist mode (as opposed to album mode). In this case, there's a bit of special processing performed to provide smooth transition between unrelated DSD tracks, but there may still be a slight click/pop on the transition depending on content.

 

[*]How do I play a playlist generated by JRiver?

 

You can save a playlist in m3u, m3u8 (recommended) or pls format and then open it in HQPlayer.

 

[*]Anyway to integrated Spotify/Tidal/Pandora with HQPlayer?

 

Here is one way described, not necessarily very easy one:

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hqplayer-friendly-way-and-stream-tidal-qobuz-spotify-23034/

[Miska]

Using your settings. Same problem. The stuttering happens multiple times/sec and seems to slow the tempo of the song down. There also seems to be some ringing. I've tried a few songs of different tempo to see if the tempo of the song interacts with the tempo of the stuttering. The stuttering mostly consists of gaps in playback (multiple x/sec) but the entire song seems to be played.

 

Now the only possibility I can think of is at the source side. Are you playing from a local HDD or from a NAS?

 

I have just released HQPlayer 3.6.1, so you could try with the updated version to see if it makes any difference. I've made some fixes and improvements here and there. First try setting buffer time to "Default" and then you can try different values starting from 100 ms if the default one doesn't behave.

 

What was the type of network interface at both sides? Some switch between? Ports are running at 1 Gbps at both ends?

[jabbr]

Now the only possibility I can think of is at the source side. Are you playing from a local HDD or from a NAS?

 

I have just released HQPlayer 3.6.1, so you could try with the updated version to see if it makes any difference. I've made some fixes and improvements here and there. First try setting buffer time to "Default" and then you can try different values starting from 100 ms if the default one doesn't behave.

 

What was the type of network interface at both sides? Some switch between? Ports are running at 1 Gbps at both ends?

 

Updating to 3.6.1 did the trick! I'm now converting PCM 24/192 -> DSD512 without a hitch. Uses CPU 265%. NAS or RAM Disk: no difference. Yes 1GBE switch connections.

 

Slightly more NAA utilization:

[shadowlight]

Which OS the NAA is on?

 

I have only one machine that is having some issues. My MacMini running Windows 8.1 tends to lose some of the discovery messages, so it is not always found. I updated the Broadcom NIC driver, but it didn't help much. It is also sometimes having issues finding SMB shares. I have not yet found root cause of this problem, but I will keep looking.

 

 

HQPlayer 3.6 running on Windows 8.1, NAA running on stripped down Ubuntu using commands listed here. I am using Edimax AC1200 USB adapter on the NAA where I had to compile the modules but the same setup was working find with the older version of NAA and HQPlayer when I was evaluating.

 

 

What is the format of the two files where this transition problem between files happens?

 

Everything is gapless by default, except the special case when playing DSD files in playlist mode (as opposed to album mode). In this case, there's a bit of special processing performed to provide smooth transition between unrelated DSD tracks, but there may still be a slight click/pop on the transition depending on content.

 

Slight correction. It happens when the album starts and stops. All files tried so far are redbook 44.1/16-bit/2-c.

 

Thx for the rest of the information.

[jabbr]

Updating to 3.6.1 did the trick! I'm now converting PCM 24/192 -> DSD512 without a hitch. Uses CPU 265%. NAS or RAM Disk: no difference. Yes 1GBE switch connections.

 

Spoke too soon DSD512 works when source is PCM, but when source is DSD/DSF then the max I can get before stuttering is DSD256 ... well actually bitrate 1228000 works... but 22579200 causes stuttering.

[sonata]

Now the only possibility I can think of is at the source side. Are you playing from a local HDD or from a NAS?

 

I have just released HQPlayer 3.6.1, so you could try with the updated version to see if it makes any difference. I've made some fixes and improvements here and there. First try setting buffer time to "Default" and then you can try different values starting from 100 ms if the default one doesn't behave.

 

Miska,

 

I am really loving the sound when converting PCM Redbook to DSD256.

 

However I am unable to get to DSD512. Here is my setup …

MacMini, Late 2012, Quad Core i7, 2.3GHz, 16G RAM > NAA on an older Celeron Laptop > iUSB Power > iDSD micro (firmware V4.06). Ethernet network is 100 Mbps.

 

On the MacMini I am using OS 10.10.1 (with minor optimisation - Notifications, Time Machine, Screen Saver, Sleep Image disabled, if I remember correctly). Music is stored locally on a separate partition of the internal HDD. I am using HQP 3.6.1

 

On the NAA I have used Debian 7.7.0, min install (no GUI). I have updated Debian with the command "sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get dist-upgrade" I believe it is now at V7.8 according to command "cat /etc/debian_version"

When I enter "uname -a" I get this response: Linux naa 3.2.0-4-rt-686-pae #1 SMP PREEMPT RT Debian 3.2.65-1+deb7u1 i686 GNU/Linux

And I also installed networkaudiod_3.0.0-22_i386

 

Initially the max rate I could get with PCM > PCM was 384000 - beyond that it stuttered - then I changed the Buffer Time from Default to 50ms - and it now appears to play 768000 OK.

 

The max rate I can get with PCM > SDM is 12288000 - even though I choose 22579200 in Preferences. In the main window of HQP, if I choose SDM, the drop down list for SDM sample rates only offers me 12288000 or less?

 

Is there something else I should have installed on the NAA side?

 

I have attached my settings. I would be grateful for your help.

 

Rob

[EuroDriver]

Google Translate

 

Win NAA sounds better, perhaps due to better Win ASIO drivers ?

 

in this post Mac OS NAA sounds better than Cubox

http://www.computeraudiophile.com/f11-software/hq-player-20293/index41.html#post388535

[Superdad]

Google Translate

 

Win NAA sounds better, perhaps due to better Win ASIO drivers ?

[/url]

 

Hi Edward:

I get a kick from Google translate of that page. To wit: "Well the sauce as NAA does his hair and beard to CUBOX…" Awesome!

 

But seriously, I think we need to be careful about drawing conclusions from that report because he was comparing two major variables at the same time. To compare a CuBox-i as Linux NAA versus a full Intel Windows machine as NAA and to attribute the differences to drivers is not prudent. Better would be to run Linux/NAA on that same Intel machine and compare that versus the Windows NAA. Even then, care should be exercised in the test.

 

Besides, it is no surprise to me that CuBox-i does not make the best NAA. You know I made my own fair hardware comparison between CuBox-i4Pro and i7 Mac mini--both as text-only Linux/NAA using Miska's images, and both run from my good JS-2 LPS. Mac was far better.

 

I know you have already made your own tests, preferring Windows greatly on the MacPro versus OS X--when running HQP direct to DAC.

But to get closer to answering the question of better OS/drivers for NAA, I have been thinking about installing Windows on a drive partition in my Mac mini (mainly because I also want to finally take a listen to XXHighEnd, as well as to HQP desktop). I could then compare the new Windows NAA versus the same machine booted from the same Linux USB/NAA image (as used in prior testing). To me, that would more directly address the Linux versus Windows issue.

But I won't be able to do this any time soon as I am busy and behind on other work (darn addicting CA forum! )

 

--Alex C.

[Miska]

The max rate I can get with PCM > SDM is 12288000 - even though I choose 22579200 in Preferences. In the main window of HQP, if I choose SDM, the drop down list for SDM sample rates only offers me 12288000 or less?

 

Is there something else I should have installed on the NAA side?

 

That limitation is due to DoP...

 

First I recommend switching over to Jessie (8.0). Fairly easy way to do it is to edit /etc/apt/sources.list and replace everywhere "wheezy" with "jessie". Then run "sudo apt-get update ; sudo apt-get upgrade" and you'll get quite many packages updated. You can then run "sudo apt-get autoremove" to remove old obsolete packages. Then just reboot, things should be now more recent.

 

Then get my custom kernel (linux-image, linux-headers) and libasound2 and libasound2-data packages from here:

Index of /src/jessie

 

Then you can disable "DoP" in the HQPlayer settings and you'll be able to play up to DSD512. Native DSD, no DoP involved.