Article: Magico, Merging Technologies, and Matan

[kana813]

Chris, here's another new speaker to check out at CES.<br />

<br />

Brian Cheney of VMPS will be introducing "A new concept: the Live Music Reproducer."<br />

<br />

See the links below for more info.<br />

<br />

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75909.0<br />

<br />

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=75905.0<br />

<br />

http://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=73700.0

[DanH]

I met Tim a number of months ago when I purchased a Lynx card from him. As he lives about ten miles from me I’ve been able to get together with him on a few occasions to A/B various setups. <br />

For reference, my setup consists of Zalman, Lynx, Berkeley Audio, into a Conrad Johnson CT-5, VTL 450 monoblocks and Wilson Sophia speakers. I use XXHE for software. My benchmark CD player is a Spectral 4000. <br />

I’ve had as a goal in computer audio to be able to sell the Spectral, and correspondingly the cj preamp, but I’m a stickler for sound quality and my music server had never achieved the same level of refinement. <br />

I have not heard Tim’s Pyramix setup in my system so I cannot say that it beats the Spectral. I did however take my server to his shop and A/B’d it to his Pyramix setup and the superiority of his sound quality was immediately obvious. The detail, refinement, and ease had mine beat hands-down. Tim was using a Pacific Microsonics Model Two which is, of course, a loftier DAC than the Alpha, so I new I had to hear the Pyramix in my system, but I had a strong hunch that a Pyramix solution was in my future. After CES, Tim will get the Alpha working and let me hear how it sounds.<br />

At that time I heard Tim’s setup I anticipated the cost was in the five thousand dollar range – big chunk of change, but if it allowed me to sell the Spectral and the CJ, I’d be ahead of the game financially. If the cost is really $12,000 it will take more thought. It’s funny, though, the dichotomy between hi-fi and computer pricing. If I was willing to stump up for sound quality at my audio store, why should I be any less willing for computer-based audio? I’ll hold that thought until I hear the Pyramix in my system. <br />

I do want to add my thoughts about Tim. As I said, I bought the Lynx card from him, but I feel my relationship with him now is as a mentor and friend. I have a ton of respect for the sound he has been able to achieve. He is clearly on a quest to get the best possible sound he can out of a computer-based system. When I’ve been antsy to upgrade to his then current configuration, he has always told me to wait because there was more work for him to do before he felt he had achieved a plateau that I could move to without the near-term risk of wanting to upgrade to a new and improved level of sound. I think he has a ton of integrity and I consider myself lucky to have him as a resource. <br />

[coleb13]

I'm extremely interested to hear about developments that advance the SOTA even if I have to wait for them to become available in products that I can afford.

[cfmsp]

interesting point...<br />

<br />

"Chris has actually stuck his neck out quite a bit... don't you think?"<br />

<br />

I don't see it as much "sticking his neck" out as "showing his hand", i.e., his preferences in a reference system.<br />

<br />

Although I guess there is a bit of a 'sticking his neck out aspect' to even that, e.g., those who disagree with his choice of 'reference' products might be disinclined to respect his opinions on other things (in a worst case scenario), and/or devalue his reviews of 'competing' products, or even design philosophies.<br />

<br />

One would hope this would not be the case given that quite a number of different products are capable of 'reference' caliber playback, and one can only choose a single reference system, yes?<br />

<br />

I've not yet seen Chris suggest that he believes his preferences are some sort of absolute statement, although his exuberance for the new Magicos admittedly comes closer than I've seen to date. <br />

<br />

At the end of the day, none of us should take Chris' opinion to be more important than one's own. Neither should we imagine that he is trying to impose his opinion on anyone here.<br />

<br />

clay<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

[rom661]

With all due respect, and great deference to Chris, I have avoided the "this is the best there is" statements for a long time. When I was at the Symposium there was a pair of Magico M5's used for the demos and comparisons. I didn't care for them. I actually greatly preferred Keith Johnson's limited bandwidth, low output MDF boxed speakers that he used for monitoring. I was told that the room was very difficult, which I accept. In another venue I might have been as enthusiastic about them as Chris.<br />

<br />

My point is that it is impossible, for me at least, to overlook the synergy involved between other components, room, and listener tastes. I have heard Wilson Alexandria's in David Wilson's home. As you can imagine, they sounded glorious. I have also heard them in contexts where there were not as good. It certainly doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the speakers, just context.<br />

<br />

I sometimes am absolutely convinced of what a client should buy, only do to an in-home demo and discover that they are not so good with his system, his room, or don't match his tastes (or hers). Women have a wonderful tendency to listen to the music rather than the gear. Sexist statement but it seems to be true to a large degree.<br />

<br />

So, please, no offense, Chris. I absolutely accept that it is a great speaker and that it sounded wonderful. I do have to quibble with the absolute nature of your statement. Having said that, I will indulge in my own abolute statement; I have never heard a perfect speaker and don't believe it exists. Perhaps this is the one. Perhaps...<br />

<br />

See you at CES. You have my permission to throw something at me.<br />

<br />

Rick<br />

<br />

Rick

[The Computer Audiophile]

Hi Rick - Of course no offense taken :~) <br />

<br />

I'm willing to take heat for making a bold statement of my opinion. If I would have said the Q5 loudspeakers are the best I've heard on a Tuesday in Berkeley, CA that would also have been the truth. Instead I elected to state my opinion without hesitation or qualifications. If I would have used qualifications I would have irked the other half of the CA readers who are looking for a writer willing to say what he really thinks. I could have written this article like most of the mainstream audio press but that would have been a compromise selling the loudspeaker short and selling myself short. I'm totally fine with my decision to call this one like I see it.<br />

<br />

I wonder what readers would have thought if I didn't like the speaker but made everyone read between the lines by beating around the bush with evasive statements. <br />

<br />

You can't please everyone all the time :~)<br />

<br />

See you in a few days Rick.<br />

<br />

[tmfidelis]

Dear Daphne:<br />

<br />

If you wish further information regarding my industry background, by all means, please contact me @ 510-652-1911 knowing that I travel to the CES tomorrow mid-day via ground transportation to deliver analogue tape machines, (they don't travel well via normal freight methods).<br />

<br />

After our conversation, please feel free to post your observations knowing in advance I have signed several non-disclosure agreements with various manufacturers throughout the industry.<br />

<br />

As for Aaron Reiff of Reiff Audo, I met Aaron about 9 years ago conducting cinema audio research with Jerry Steckling, (presently <br />

www.JSXAudio.com), at Skywalker Ranch in Novato, CA. At that time, Aaron was the engineer of the scoring stage responsible for the recordings for film. <br />

<br />

Maier Shadi of The Audio Salon and I met through one of the founders of Berkeley Audio Design, Michael Ritter, a couple of years ago. Since our first meeting I have met Maier's family and parents.<br />

<br />

I met Chris Connaker through one of my customers. It doesn't take a rocket scientist when one of my customers refers me to information sources.<br />

<br />

I hope this helps give you a better understanding and I hope to hear from you via telephone shortly.<br />

<br />

Best regards,<br />

<br />

Tim Marutani<br />

Emeryville, CA

[manisandher]

"... I did however take my server to his shop and A/B’d it to his Pyramix setup..."<br />

<br />

Were you using Tim's PM Model Two for this A/B?<br />

<br />

If so, I hope that for all 16/44.1 material you had XXHE on your Zalman set to Quad Arc Prediction and the Model Two set to 176.4K. My understanding is that when set to 176.4K, the Model Two is non-oversampling, which is exactly what Quad Arc Prediction in XXHE wants to see to do its magic (and it really is magic!).<br />

<br />

But thinking about it, I bet you used RR 24/176.4 material in the first place...<br />

<br />

Mani.

[tmfidelis]

Dear Clay:<br />

<br />

Thank you very much taking time out to give me a background! If we do have the pleasure of meeting, please remember everything I do here comes from the perspective of playback.<br />

<br />

Hopefully our paths can cross sooner than later as time passes by very quickly in this day and age.<br />

<br />

Best regards,<br />

<br />

Tim Marutani<br />

PS I hope you are not allergic to cat hair or dander.<br />

<br />

[tmfidelis]

After installing and listening using the Merging Technologies hardware I/O, I said to myself from day one and disseminated to everyone around me, the challenge will be to identify how much can be translated using alternative digital configurations. As I have customers that own Pacific Microsonics Model Ones and Twos, there is no translation loss.<br />

<br />

This is not the answer to cancer but certainly may be considered an excellent reference point along with attending a performance of the Berlin Philharmonic @ Disney Hall and referencing to the sound of a 1/2", 1/2 track analogue tape machine.<br />

<br />

There was no time available to undergo experiments other than to amass re-clocking devices, word clock DAs, master word clocks, and other digital distribution systems in an attempt to reduce noise. Most of my gear is now in transit to the show. This being said, the TAD room will be using a main stream SACD player/DAC along with one of the four computers housing Merging Technologies hardware. Thus an example of the "real world". <br />

<br />

A completely other mission will be testing using alternative and mainstream DACs. For those individuals I have the pleasure to know and happen to live near my facility, the testing will begin in there home using their system and their reference points.<br />

<br />

Who really knows where this will go but there are brilliant programmers willing to take the ball from this point forward and I do believe the hardware is stellar and the playback I am experiencing is very good. <br />

<br />

I truly hope this information helps place things into a more proper perspective.<br />

<br />

Respectfully,<br />

<br />

Tim Marutani<br />

Emeryville, CA<br />

<br />

[manisandher]

"As I have customers that own Pacific Microsonics Model Ones and Twos, there is no translation loss."<br />

<br />

Tim, what exactly do you mean? Do you mean not being able to distinguish between an analogue source and a digital copy made with these machines?<br />

<br />

FWIW, at 24/176.4K rates, I can't...<br />

<br />

Mani.

[cfmsp]

<br />

I took Tim's comment to mean that the advantages of using the Mykerinos were not "lost in translation" by use of a less resolving/revealing DAC.<br />

<br />

IOW, are the results of the Mykerinos as dramatic for most DACs, or more so for the PM devices.<br />

<br />

clay<br />

[tmfidelis]

Dear Mani and Clay:<br />

<br />

Happy new year and hope you are well. English is not my first language and many times my thoughts are far too rapid than my ability to communicate.<br />

<br />

What I was trying to say was the odds of a Pacific Microsonics owner coming to a similar conclusion as I are far greater as the DAC issue is on same playing field. In other words. it greatly reduces variables.<br />

<br />

I have conducted listening tests at three different locations using three different loudspeakers and electronics compliments and have consistent results. I use the term consistent as at one location 176.4k playback was questionable but when I returned to my facility revisited the files transferred into my DAW using a G5 - Lynx - Amarra I found only iTunes would play the file and the HDCD flag disappeared. Oh yes, three different Model Twos. Btw, really enjoy the G5 - Lynx - Amarra rig as well.<br />

<br />

What I hear using the Model Two and Merging hardware are spacial cues that are exceptional. As I compare digital playback to analogue I begin to recognize similarities between the two formats.<br />

<br />

There is a sense or relaxation when listening, even for 10 continuous hours. As we all know, nothing is even close to perfect. I do believe I may be able to identify the sound of DSP but who knows.....? I can identity the sound of digital halo within a heart beat.<br />

<br />

The playback does have similarities of the presentation of an orchestra in a good sounding venue. Which row in the venue is another story. As in attending a live performance, I do not find myself fidgeting searching for another track or riding the volume control. I suspect it is a result of lowering noise or at least redistributing the noise.<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

I hope this helps.<br />

<br />

Best regards,<br />

<br />

Tim Marutani<br />

Emeryville, CA<br />

<br />

<br />

<br />

[vortecjr]

thanks....that's what I expected!<br />

<br />

Jesus R<br />

www.sonore.us

[manisandher]

Hi Tim,<br />

<br />

So, with the Merging software/hardware and the Model Two you hear "spacial cues that are exceptional". And your point about 'translation' was indeed (as Clay correctly surmised) concerned with whether this sound would be 'translated' (or reproduced) in other people's setups. You've already concluded that setups with PM Model Ones and Twos DO reproduce this sound intact, but you will now explore the results with other DACs.<br />

<br />

Got it. Thanks for taking the time to help me understand what you meant.<br />

<br />

BTW, I'm really impressed with your scientific approach to all this - is what you're 'measuring' (subjectively in this case, I guess) reproducible in other similar systems? Cool.<br />

<br />

Mani.

[VT Skier]

"With all due respect, and great deference to Chris, I have avoided the "this is the best there is" statements for a long time. When I was at the Symposium there was a pair of Magico M5's used for the demos and comparisons. I didn't care for them."<br />

<br />

Having heard Magicos several times over the last few years at various events, I have to agree, but I'm still greatly looking forward to hearing the Q5s at CES. The V3s have been the only Magicos that ever wowed me, but I will happily report back on what I think of this year's presentation.

[machinehead]

Exciting times indeed!<br />

<br />

Cool stuff Chris, thanks once again for keeping us in the bleeding edge if digital playback!<br />

<br />

Damn, a pressurized server, I am going to have to breakout the welder and get to work on all those pretty holes in the G5!<br />

<br />

Cool stuff, so does Matan ever plan on trying that new Swiss sound card? Sounds like a match made in heaven.<br />

<br />

Wonder if Magico plans on coming to RMAF 2010?

[Nyal Mellor]

Its probably worth noting that Magico's demo room has been acoustically treated, therefore I'm not surprised that the speakers sounded good. <br />

<br />

Setup of speakers in a room is the most challenging thing, and most rooms that us audiophiles have are woefully inadequate to do justice to the level of equipment we use.

[wooster]

I sometimes wonder if audio enthusiasts will be having exactly the same discussions in 50 or 100 years from now.<br />

<br />

One or two contributors have already referred to the fact that the performance of any loudspeaker is room-dependant, so there isn't a "best speaker": there is only a best speaker for a particular room, and, given that life is short and most of us have limited opportunity to try different speakers, the likelihood is that we will never find the best for our own listening room. That doesn't that we can't find something that is (merely) very good, and maybe we should just be happy with that. <br />

<br />

And, as to the (stratospherically expensive) state of the art in general , it is interesting to read about it, but, given that even the best is not perfect, it is really only worth considering if you can afford to discard it when something better comes along. Of course, what is expensive to you might not seem so bad to me, and vice versa, so the point at which you are willing to discard an item might be different too.<br />

<br />

Meanwhile, again, I'll stick with the very good, and leave "the best" to others.

[BobH]

And perhaps have a little look at room correction systems? <br />

<br />

Many examples exist and they are the only way I have found of adequately 'treating a room' and getting those uber expensive speakers to start giving of their best! My TACT makes my cheap and nasty Martin Logans sound almost hi-fi! You never know, instead of not buying the Q5's you would be able to choose something else not to buy!<br />

<br />

Me, I'm saving up not to buy that soundcard!

[audiozorro]

Everyone seems to be on a roll here which suggests great things and discussions for the rest of the year (a sure sign of optimism). I don’t mean to hijack this thread but since I may have the ears of several readers I can’t resist.<br />

<br />

Hi Earflappin – its seems that you have a pretty good system and ample budget, so why are you using Win7 with XXHighEnd when the general feedback is that Vista and XXHE is sonically superior?<br />

<br />

Hi Bruce – thanks to some favorable posts from you and others I picked up a Korg MR2000s. I am thoroughly enjoying it and wondering if adding an external clock will take it to a higher level, say one of the Antelope or other reclockers. Or would that be a waste since I am primarily using the Korg to digitize vinyl to 1-bit/5.6 MHz DSD (even though I am dabbling with using it as a PCM DAC)?<br />

<br />

Hi Mani and Clay – I’d sure like to see a shootout between the Pacific Microsonics Model Two and the Metric Halo ULN-8. I thought I would be happy with the Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC and I almost bought one until I got the impression from others that it’s not sonically in the same league with the Model Two. So what’s the sense and for now I decided to jump off the DAC merry-go-round in the futile pursuit of sonic perfection so I could explore other things (such as digitzing vinyl) and just enjoy the hardware that I have (and is paid for). My current thinking for a future DAC is either the DAD AX24 or a future Wavelength Audio DAC if Gordon decides it will support 1/5.6 MHz DSD.<br />

<br />

Hi Daphne – you’ve been missed. I hope you find more time this year to contribute to the CA forums.<br />

<br />

Hi Chris – happy hunting in Vegas and keep us posted.<br />

[manisandher]

"I thought I would be happy with the Berkeley Audio Alpha DAC and I almost bought one until I got the impression from others that it’s not sonically in the same league with the Model Two."<br />

<br />

Well, if your main criterion is to get something sonically in the same league, you'll never buy a new DAC ;-)<br />

<br />

Mani... being just a little factious.

[DSD_mastering]

Don't let Mani try to suck you into that Model 2 cult following. There are several DAC's that will equal or surpass that antiquated technology. <br />

<br />

Playback Designs<br />

DAD AX24<br />

EMM Labs DAC8IV<br />

Lavry DA924<br />

<br />

If you're just using one of these external DACs, there's no need for external clock. We've tried everything from Crystal to Rubidium... none change for the better.<br />

<br />

Regards,

[manisandher]

This 'antiquated' technology produces the RR 24/176.4 recordings... probably the finest hi-def available today.<br />

<br />

There's a reason why Model Twos were used at the Computer Audiophile symposium, and why Matan/Merging/Magico will use them this week...<br />

<br />

Nuff said.<br />

<br />

[EDIT: You forgot to mention your BS server in the list ;-)]<br />

<br />

Mani.

[beetlemania]

Thanks for the VERY interesting article, Chris, but it seems “over-the-top”, especially with regards to the Magico. Of course, I believe you when you say it’s the best you’ve ever heard (and maybe I’d agree if I heard it). But I find it not credible that the speaker is a "new paradigm". I just don’t see anything that is radically different about this design. YG (and others?) does metal enclosures, albeit not the way Magico does. Others have beryllium tweeters. The other Magico drivers don’t seem especially different from what other manufacturers are doing. What’s in the cross-over that is so new? It seems the Q is more of a case of an exceptionally well executed design. I’d find your report more credible if you would have instead said “the Magico is best design I’ve heard/know of”.<br />

<br />

If I had an unlimited budget, I’d probably want to hear the Magico but I’d also want to hear stuff like the Vandersteen 7, Avalon Isis, and TAD Reference One. Perhaps I’d conclude that the Magico was “best”, but I can’t imagine it would be head and shoulders better. It's not like these other designers are idiots or are resting on laurels of past glory.<br />

<br />

BTW, I really enjoy Computer Audiophile – please don’t become the next Valin!<br />

<br />