My new system is "underwhelming"...how do I improve sound?

[thesurfingalien]

Hi Forrest,

 

I assume you are not talking about "el-cheapo" speakers here, but that would suggest QC of the manufacturer not being too extensive :-)

 

But I agree... It can happen. Humans make errors, and even (surfing) aliens do :-)

 

Regards,

Peter

 

[Paul R]

With all those dislikes, how do you ever have time to find music you like?

 

(gentle amusement or

 

Paul

 

 

 

[Kimo]

Easy, I pretty much hate anything recorded after 1980. I am becoming quite the anti new music, anti tea party, anti hippie, anti cable curmudgeon in my forties. I am running out of good years.

 

 

 

 

 

[thesurfingalien]

Kimo,

 

You don't like tea, or do you not care for the band "The Tea Party" :-)

 

BTW, I like them! Quite a bit!

 

Regards,

Peter

 

[Kimo]

"Sex Crimes" seems to me an appropriate campaign tune.

 

Probably sounds harsh on the PSBs though. Crappy remastering.

 

[elcorso]

This could be only a minor problem. But it's easy to test with an small 9 VDC battery, + to +, and the same with the minus, if the cone push, phase is ok, if sucks, inverted. This needs to be done during a very short time, in order not to damage the drivers.

 

But, as suggested by others here, you have to find a better source. Then you can go to room acoustics.

 

Roch

 

[ccclapp]

except for large and exposed bass drivers, the battery test is not so easy to see...is the woofer going in or out 1st.

 

..but yes, I think we're all confused how the OP can be discussing all of this based on ipad source...unless I misunderstand

 

[tpoole638]

Yes, it's true one of my main sources is an iPad; however, I also play CDs (16/44) played from my PS3 to the DAC via optical cable. The iPad has a selection of AIFF files as well.

 

I simply do not have the funds to spend on a good computer setup with everything needed to have a great sounding system based on a computer. That will have to come in time and knowledge gained. I love music, and I love listening to music even more. I am convinced that music can sound pretty good from my sources. I have been told that by others on this site, and I played music at a dealer through my iPad + DAC; however, they were connected to Mcintosh amp and pre-amps that cost a few grand each!

 

 

 

[ccclapp]

...certainly I intended no offence by my comment questioning your ipad. I completely agree that CA should be accessible to all and $ is not the measure of one's "audiophileness". In many respects it is/shold be the opposite. Part of CA is learning and making it work for all of us in whatever form is best for the individual. For me, I am learning about room correction and DIY high-end to 1) use what I have to the fullest and 2) get lots of bang for my buck with changes

 

Having said that, I guess it all boils down to balance. The larger the constraints, the more balance becomes critical and the harder the job.

 

My point, expressed without sufficient understanding, was that with an ipad source it may be harder to evaluate the subtleties of the various other components all above have discussed. Based on that, figuring out how to use the camera kit to maximize ipad output might be a good early step (as others have suggested). Also, trying headphones (on returnable basis) might help you remove expensive speakers from the mix, during your evaluation of DACS, etc.

 

Figuring a way to control your variables one at a time, will help you better know the strengths/limitations of each component. Your weakest link, will always hinder your evaluation of the rest of the chain.

 

PS: Aren't you tired yet, of the "ask 100 people, get 100 different answers" syndrome? :-)

 

[Jud]

If you can use the digital output, iPad should not be bad. Wasn't asking you to buy a computer, but if you already had one.

 

Not sure why Camera Connection Kit isn't working. Does iTunes on the iPad "see" the DAC?

 

Edit: Audition speakers at your local dealer with your iPad and DAC and low priced amplification. See what you like there.

 

[tpoole638]

@ Ccclapp - No offense taken.  And yeah, the "Ask 100/get 100" has been overwhelming at times to say the least.  But I have enjoyed this thread and have learned some things.  I am a rank noob with no expertise but a love for music and a big desire to learn.  I wish my wallet was a little bigger as well, but that's part of the challenge too I think.

 

By the way, do you or anyone else know why I can't get the iPad to play via the camera connection kit to the DAC?  A message popped up on the iPad that said, "the connected device requires too much power"....or something similar to that (can't remember exactly)

 

At the end of the day, maybe my ears are playing tricks on me, who knows?!  Maybe I am doubting the speakers/amp because I am getting to the end of the audition period, and I feel like Maybe i should have had an "Ahh-hah" moment

that never happened...I never had that moment where I just fell in love with the sound.  Now I am frantically trying to figure out what I should do....don't want to be stuck with what I have after its too late to send it back, if there are better options for me.  

 

Does that make any sense?

 

 

Sent from my iPhone

 

On Apr 4, 2012, at 12:03 AM, "Computer Audiophile" wrote:

 

Greetings, tpoole638

Computer Audiophile notifies you of new comments:

 

 

 

 

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New comment:

 

Author: ccclapp

Title: "audiophileness"

 

...certainly I intended no offence by my comment questioning your ipad. I

completely agree that CA should be accessible to all and $ is not the measure

of one's "audiophileness". In many respects it is/shold be the opposite. Part

of CA is learning and making it work for all of us in whatever form is best

for the individual. For me, I am learning about room correction and DIY

high-end to 1) use what I have to the fullest and 2) get lots of bang for my

buck with changes

 

Having said that, I guess it all boils down to balance. The larger the

constraints, the more balance becomes critical and the harder the job.

 

My point, expressed without sufficient understanding, was that with an ipad

source it may be harder to evaluate the subtleties of the various other

components all above have discussed. Based on that, figuring out how to use

the camera kit to maximize ipad output might be a good early step (as others

have suggested). Also, trying headphones (on returnable basis) might help you

remove expensive speakers from the mix, during your evaluation of DACS, etc.

 

Figuring a way to control your variables one at a time, will help you better

know the strengths/limitations of each component. Your weakest link, will

always hinder your evaluation of the rest of the chain.

 

PS: Aren't you tired yet, of the "ask 100 people, get 100 different answers"

syndrome? :-)__________________

 

 

-Caleb

 

C.A.P.S v2.0>Mytek 8X192>Lexicon MC12b>Theta Dreadnought>Infinity Prelude

MTS>Sonos>JRiver MC>12TB DataTale eSATA

 

Link: http://www.computeraudiophile.com/content/My-new-system-underwhelminghow-do-I-improve-sound#comment-139689

 

 

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[SteveChicago]

This may sound harsh but perhaps the easiest and best thing for you to do at this point is simply to return everything for a full refund and use what you had previously for the time being.

 

In the interim, take more time to research and audition gear without the pressure of needing to make a decision by a certain deadline.

 

If you are not delighted with the new gear, then why keep it? It's apparently not going to get much better and then you'll be stuck with it.

 

At least, if you return it you'll take the pressure off yourself.

 

Hope that helps.

 

Regards, Steve

 

[ccclapp]

"At the end of the day, maybe my ears are playing tricks on me, who knows?!  Maybe I am doubting the speakers/amp because I am getting to the end of the audition period, and I feel like Maybe i should have had an "Ahh-hah" moment

that never happened...I never had that moment where I just fell in love with the sound.  Now I am frantically trying to figure out what I should do....don't want to be stuck with what I have after its too late to send it back, if there are better options for me."...

 

Sure I hear you. I've found all of this takes time. If it were me and I was hitting the no return deadline, I'd do the return, read more, listen more, and shop more

 

[realhifi]

If that's what their policy is then you may as well tale them, up on it. It simply sounds like what you bought is not what you want. Take a deep breath and start over.

 

PS. I don't blame you for not liking what you purchased.

 

[Jud]

By the way, do you or anyone else know why I can't get the iPad to play via the camera connection kit to the DAC? A message popped up on the iPad that said, "the connected device requires too much power"....or something similar to that (can't remember exactly)

 

You do have the DacIt plugged in, right?

 

[tpoole638]

Give me more credit than that! Yeah, it is plugged in. I have no idea why I would get that message on my iPad.

 

[Miska]

Yeah, it is plugged in. I have no idea why I would get that message on my iPad.

 

Probably DACiT is using USB power to run some of it's functions, instead of the wall-wart. For example running the USB or entire digital section from USB power. Mobile devices like phones and tablets cannot provide the normal USB power feed (500 mA / 5V), it would drain the battery in no time. So iPad notices this case and drops off the offending USB device.

 

 

[Kimo]

They did not have the model the OP purchased. They did have the Imagine T, which also uses a 1" titanium dome tweeter in a slim tower design, but retails for twice the price. I listened to these powered by a Denon receiver retailing for over 1K.

 

They certainly sounded bright to me, and I could see where one could find the sound harsh, especially as others have noted, if your source isn't all that great. I couldn't live with them long term, or even listen to them for one song without becoming annoyed. I would rather listen to a Bose 901 at this price point.

 

The dealer told me that the bright sound was typical of the line. I checked the Stereophile review and the brightness was noted there for the speaker the OP purchased.

 

Well that's it.

 

 

 

 

 

[Jud]

It wasn't that I thought you'd simply leave a device unplugged and not notice. Some devices have provision for battery power or have other power arrangements such as Miska mentioned. So if there was a way to ensure max power was shown by your DAC to the iPad....

 

[tpoole638]

Thanks for that info. I have pretty much decided that I am going to return the speakers and amp and use the experience I've gained thus far to making a better decision. I have found a dealer who can help me a little, although they have not embraced digital/computer audio yet.

 

I was thinking of trying the PSB Imagine B (bookshelfs), but your experience in listening to them seems to confirm much of the same problem. Everyone has focused on my comments about harshness, but nobody has really talked about the muddiness / 2 dimensional sound I have been experiencing, especially on songs with a lot of drumming (think Led Zep and some modern rock like Black Keys or Foo) and active horn sections (think blues-rock).

 

The dealer I mentioned has some Magnepan speakers. I listened very briefly to the MMGs and they sounded really good, but they were connected to expensive, powerful amps/preamps as well as a turntable player. I will take my iPad and DAC and see how they sound with those.

 

 

 

[bdiament]

Hi tpoole638,

 

While I would very enthusiastically go for the MMGs over any small box speaker I've heard, getting a good listen for yourself is the best idea.

 

Whatever you decide, here is an article you may find useful.

(I hope so.)

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

[Miska]

nobody has really talked about the muddiness / 2 dimensional sound I have been experiencing, especially on songs with a lot of drumming (think Led Zep and some modern rock like Black Keys or Foo) and active horn sections (think blues-rock)

 

In many cases, this tends to be due to...

- speakers too close to walls (did the two feets help this?)

- speakers are just too bass heavy/big for the room

 

The dealer I mentioned has some Magnepan speakers. I listened very briefly to the MMGs and they sounded really good

 

Especially panels need some air behind them, because they radiate a lot of sound to back too. So be prepared to keep it well off from the back wall. Good side of course being that the speaker itself is relatively thin. Another good side is that panels are less sensitive to close side walls than box speakers, because sound from dipoles cancels at sides. (dipole radiation pattern is figure-eight)

 

 

[Kimo]

Auditioning these with some of your own equipment should prove enlightening. Certainly Barry qualifies as the expert here, but I would suggest that you need to get the right amp on these, not just the most expensive. I guess that is sort of obvious for all speakers, but I imagine matching would be quite critical based on the design of the speaker. I heard the SMGs with an old Aragon amp, an often criticized piece, and thought they sounded quite nice together, so long as there was enough room behind the speaker, as noted in another post.

 

Perhaps a used Bryston would be the ticket. The warranty is transferable and good for 20 years. Good luck.

 

[bdiament]

I've set up (what must be several dozen by now) MMG systems for relatives, friends and clients.

 

Most recently, the associated gear is an Outlaw RR2150 receiver and the most basic cabling from Nordost (e.g., White Lightning). (Other folks, with a larger budget for electronics have been very happy with a pair of Outlaw 2200 amps, as this left them cash for the Nordost cables.)

 

All in all, these make for a system that can absolutely shame many I've heard that cost 10 times as much or more. It is a system I could very happily live with.

 

Best regards,

Barry

www.soundkeeperrecordings.com

www.barrydiamentaudio.com

 

 

[tpoole638]

How do you think similar systems as you described would sound with iPad as the source, playing AIFF files as well as some compressed music from iTunes Match and Spotify?